I'd probably skip over Dick's circus boy origin and go straight to Jason the gold-hearted street punk.
I'd probably skip over Dick's circus boy origin and go straight to Jason the gold-hearted street punk.
"You know the deal, Metropolis. Treat people right or expect a visit from me."
I'd disagree, hard. BATMAN is Bruce Wayne, and his set up is very important to the character. I think Batman's whole world is what makes him so popular, not just ears and cape. It's the aesthetic and the man himself.
The only time I'd say someone else works as Batman is Dick Grayson, but that's because he's been set up as the heir for decades. Plus the Dick/Damien relationship mirrors Bruce/Dick and yet still allows Bruce to factor heavily into the narrative. The Dick/Damien dynamic felt so damn fresh and modern.
Batman may not need Robin, but honestly he's better with a Robin- it's just time to let go of the idea of Dick Grayson having to be a child.
Last edited by Flash Gordon; 09-10-2020 at 07:32 PM.
The larger world and mythos (including Robin) is the draw for me too. I was speaking on the conceptual level of it-- "Bruce Wayne" is the justification to how Batman and his world would be possible. Everything that is the "Bruce" character is just "Batman" which makes it seem like both need the other. It's actually just that Bruce Wayne doesn't work without "Batman." "Bruce" is not interesting without the cape and ears, whereas Dick Grayson has had to be, but Batman still works as long as you have the heroic qualities underneath whether his name is "Terry" or "Dick" or "Bruce."
To put it more concisely - Gotham City and Batman can work just fine without Bruce Wayne, but the reverse isn't true. That's why you don't have any Bruce stories without Gotham or Batman, but there are plenty of Batman/Gotham stories without Bruce.
Last edited by gregpersons; 09-11-2020 at 04:44 AM.
Bruce Wayne *is* BATMAN, though. That's his identity. It's like stripping your name from you and saying that your name isn't as interesting without the person attached to it. That's an unfair jab at your name, since there is no separate entity. It's just a string of words used to identify an individual.
Dick works as Batman because of the gravitas of him being Bruce's heir. As Alfred said in the first issue of B&R, "think of it as a great performance". For Bruce it wasn't an act, he is Batman.
Last edited by Flash Gordon; 09-11-2020 at 05:43 AM.
Hm, I think it's even weirder than that - it's not that Batman is Bruce, underneath the mask, it's that the only reason Bruce exists as a character is to be the person who Batman is under the mask. That's why Kane and Finger created him, because Batman needed a secret identity. Same goes for Dick and Robin.
A Bruce without Batman would just be a story about a humanitarian with a ton of adopted kids who suffered a tragic loss as a child. There's some appeal in that, but not nearly as much appeal as in the guy who goes out at night to fight crime.
"You know the deal, Metropolis. Treat people right or expect a visit from me."
It would be hard especially with the tone that the trailer is giving off but not impossible it could work to a point. You would have to change the tone of the film maybe even slightly shift the sub-genres, terminator to T2 would be the best example of this they went from a sci-fi horror film to an action sc-fi film but it did work. personaly for me whichever robin they chose I wouldn’t put them in the suit in any of the movies , I would just introduce them as characters first then make them heroes in the inevitable solo spin-off, Even with a shifting tone a child in a bright green and red costume might be stepping over the line from acceptable to corny for the general audience.
In a movie you can’t credibly have an 8-11 year old actor look like he has any place fighting grown adults. I know that sucks for us that like Robin, but there’s a reason every live action Robin in the past 60 years were 20 or older and the youngest was 16 in serials in the 1940’s and even that upgraded to an older Robin in the sequel. It’s one of those things that with on page but won’t work in real life
I'm on board with a sixteen year old first appearance for Robin, but not twenty-five or thirty-one, as O'Donnell and Gordon-Levitt were.
"You know the deal, Metropolis. Treat people right or expect a visit from me."
I'd probably bring in Thomas Wayne Jr as a ghost kid. He's traditionally Bruce's older brother that died before Bruce's parents. Bruce outlived him so it be interesting to play with that.
Or I'd bring in Steph Brown and focus on her time as Spoiler. Her baggage with her dad is pretty compelling on it's own.
Last edited by the illustrious mr. kenway; 09-14-2020 at 06:16 AM.
I would spin it a bit. I would not make it a BATMAN movie. I would make it a ROBIN movie. The movie would be from Dick's perspective. Losing his parents, getting adopted by the rich guy, finding out the secret, the intense training... finally going after the people that killed his parents.
Batman would still be there of course as the dark mysterious mentor/idol type... but the focus character would be Dick. He'd also be about 10-12. We've already seen Hit Girl kicking all sorts of butt in in the Kick-ass movies that shows that YEAH.... a well trained kid using comic book logic is a serious force to be reckoned with.