Superman in BvS Film

[Vordan]

The scale of BvS pretty much dictates that even if a lot of people loved it or hated it, there's going to be a few million people who felt oppositely.

From what I read a few years ago, the movie made a small profit, but due to the sheer amount of resources pumped into it, the ROI just wasn't that great. It's not the biggest bust there ever was (and Justice League was far worse in that regard), but I think as far as box office returns, critical review, and audience reception go WB categorizes this movie under "disappointment" or "underperforming."

Yeah it didn’t cost WB money, but it didn’t meet expectations. It was supposed to make at least a billion, that’s what the last two solo Batman Movies made after all. It was a failure but not a financial flop. We know they weren’t happy because that’s when Snyder lost his carte blanche freedom that he previously had to do whatever he wanted. He got a ton of restrictions for JL, make the tone lighter, put in jokes, tone down the edginess. Even if JL wasn’t a total flop, Snyder wasn’t getting his “arc” anymore.

[manwhohaseverything]

Hard facts can't be denied. Irrespective of what numbers Superman does now and its an industry wide situation too, the character has sold more comics then any other character in history. Had forays into other media with varying dgrees of success over 80 years. If this can't be considered successful, i don't know what can be.



So, what do you want to see in Superman? What do you mean by asking hard hitting questions and enunciating 'the truth'.

I think you are not among the kind of fans who have love for Silver Age style of stories. Those stories did not have to mean something, or Superman had some great purpose. He was a tad uninteresting as a character too. But the stories had a different kind of appeal. A bunch of crazy sci-fi stories full of imagination akin to children's stories or fairytales. I could be wrong but for better or worse, that is more inflential to the character then when the character started out.

We will just have to disagree. Are we talking about wether superman is successful or his outside media being mediocre? I was talking about the later.

Well, regarding the subject or theme of the movie. I have no problems with silverage stories. They aren't my favourite. But, i can read them fine. Furthermore, sci-fi stories full of imagination doesn't mean the stories don't tell anything be absolutely pointless. They can be whimsical and still drive a point home. I am only againts superman not meaning anything or having no message or his message being twisted.

I don't get it. Does this give me goosebumps even now? Yes. But how is this compared to a full movie? Its a bit of promo. Advertising. The final product may or may not reflect that.

I have to admit that i enjoyed Superman far more in Justice League then in any of the previous movies. Nostalgia is a strange thing. Nothing worthwhile was done to the character in the movie. Not even the engagement as shown in the trailer. But he did cool stuff while being cool. Like one might enjoy Bond in movies before Craig. Just a cool guy doing cool stuff.

Why? Because that said something about Superman as character, that is of sorta essence. He is one of the characters that emerged from depression era. The light in the darkness.

To be brave you need to face fear, like lois herself who was shocked with fear of superman. Like, clark who decided to come forth and face the world as superman, not just as the urban myth. This wasn't from joss whedhon's jl i can assure you that. This felt like it actually said something. Something basic but still very uplifting.

I didn't enjoy superman at all in jl theatrical cut. It quite frankly pissed me of, i left the theatre. I can't stand a superman who is hollow and feels fake. I would tolerate a superman who feels rounded and has some sort of essence,even if i disagree with it. The movie felt like it was caricaturising superman or making fun of the character. It wasn't even criticising the character with a point. Just plain mockery. "hey! Kids hope is like car keys. Big fan of justice".

Superman in the movie felt like superman in this clip. Bizarro. Snyder superman was still superman.He was unconfident, introverted, unsure of himself, reluctant as that guy called.. Etc. He at the end of the day answered the call. He is every bit of superman as the rest of them, maybe more so. JL superman didn't feel at all like superman.

[Lightning Rider]

I think the arguments about him being passive boil down to him not expressing often enough. I would have loved to see him in conversation telling us more about how he feels that isn't just a reaction to Lois, the Kents, Jor-El, or Zod. But I don't think that makes him passive, it's just harder for audiences to read intentions from actions, they're used to protagonists verbalizing. In BvS the problem is more pronounced.

[Lightning Rider]

I've noticed that BvS is more appreciated by those who never liked Superman or thought he was boring.

I find him mostly boring in that movie because he is too gloomy and charmless. It's not just that we want him to be smiling nonstop. At least I don't. But the fact he has no charisma in it due to the writing and direction. Wonder Woman steals the show.

Also, yes, Superman did save people in the movie and during that time after MOS, the problem is WE DIDN'T SEE HIM DOING IT AND THE PEOPLE'S REACTION AND HOW THEY LIKED OR NOT SUPERMAN. We mostly see him from afar like this untouchable god. It's why that scene in Death of Superman when he saves the little kid and his toy is much more powerful because we can see both their reactions. We can see the kid loves him! But I guess that's too cheesy for the Snyder clan.


The Nolan Batman movies get so much love, but I don't see what's the big deal. I find them alright. Guess I don't love the Batman like most people.

I always loved Superman, and do prefer him to be more bright and sure of himself, but I loved the film at the time more because I was seeing things on screen I never thought I would with regards to Superman. Seeing Clark the journalist investigate Baman violating due process and terrorizing the poor, seeing one part of the world demonize Superman and another part worship him and echoing cautionary Superman tales about using power, seeing Superman struggle with his role, seeing Superman punch Doomsday into space repeatedly then get hit by a Nuclear bomb, TDKR style, before teaming up with Wonder Woman...I never thought I'd see that, certainly not all together on screen. To me those are provocative ideas you can only tell with Superman. They may not place him in the most hopeful story, but they explore how the character potentially effects the world beyond "giving them hope". Maybe because I see Superman as existing in so many vast chapters that I didn't mind this "take" going in that less conventional direction.

Not everyone loves Superman for those reasons, and I don't need every story to include those things, but I felt lucky I got to see it.

[manwhohaseverything]

I think the arguments about him being passive boil down to him not expressing often enough. I would have loved to see him in conversation telling us more about how he feels that isn't just a reaction to Lois, the Kents, Jor-El, or Zod. But I don't think that makes him passive, it's just harder for audiences to read intentions from actions, they're used to protagonists verbalizing. In BvS the problem is more pronounced.

He is called passive cause he is consistently unsure about answering the call of being superman. Whether, such deliberation and introspection is warrented or not, the character comes of reluctant and indecisive at the end of the day. He saves people, as he goes around. He doesn't go around and save people. There is a difference between former and latter. That's just my view. Others can disagree.

[Soubhagya]

We will just have to disagree. Are we talking about wether superman is successful or his outside media being mediocre? I was talking about the later.

Oh i mistook you for the first. Looking back its a no brainer.

Well, regarding the subject or theme of the movie. I have no problems with silverage stories. They aren't my favourite. But, i can read them fine. Furthermore, sci-fi stories full of imagination doesn't mean the stories don't tell anything be absolutely pointless. They can be whimsical and still drive a point home. I am only againts superman not meaning anything or having no message or his message being twisted.

Ok. Fine. I thought you hated the Silver Age version as much as you love the GA version. I could be wrong but i guessed that a lot of your issues comes from those SA comics. Those comics tilted more to sci-fi adventures then when Superman started. I see that kind of Superman's influence on outside media far more then GA. .

Why? Because that said something about Superman as character, that is of sorta essence. He is one of the characters that emerged from depression era. The light in the darkness.

To be brave you need to face fear, like lois herself who was shocked with fear of superman. Like, clark who decided to come forth and face the world as superman, not just as the urban myth. This wasn't from joss whedhon's jl i can assure you that. This felt like it actually said something. Something basic but still very uplifting.

Okay. I understand you now. That clip reminds you about what you love. And the actual film did nothing for you.

I didn't enjoy superman at all in jl theatrical cut. It quite frankly pissed me of, i left the theatre. I can't stand a superman who is hollow and feels fake. I would tolerate a superman who feels rounded and has some sort of essence,even if i disagree with it. The movie felt like it was caricaturising superman or making fun of the character. It wasn't even criticising the character with a point. Just plain mockery. "hey! Kids hope is like car keys. Big fan of justice".

That line about Justice didn't bother me at all. I love it. I like corny stuff once in a while. I maybe among the few people who loves the emo Peter's dance from Spider-man 3, even though the rest of the world seems to hate it. Unless, i find something to be excellent like say Logan or Dark Knight, being serious all the time usually bores me.

That line is immediately followed by Superman punching Steppenwolf sending him flying. Followed by fighting him like its a game. Its fun. So, what if its bit of a cheesy line? Superman's actions speaks far too louder then words. (In this case literally. I don't remember it but i think there were shockwaves, not to speak loud sounds of punches or ice breaths). Steppenwolf realized it in the hard way.

Secondly, even if they didn't incorporate it correctly, they stopped pretending that previous movies didn't exist. However hokey one may find them, they exist. You can't make a Superman film in isolation. So, yeah its a reference.

And finally, i don't mind characters being too broad or two dimenional in team up films. In such films there is always something that is lost in characterization. Such films are more about doing awesome stuff together after doing the serious stuff in solo films.


That 'hope being like car keys' didn't bother me back then. But just a few days ago i watched some clips from Brandon Routh's Superman in Supergirl after i heard a lot of good stuff about him. The performance was fine, but the dialogue annoyed me. Okay you can't devote much time to Superman. Fair enough. But why is everything about this guy hope? It makes me hate that S stands for hope again.

It was so simple that S stands for Superman. They brought in a family crest. Its fine. It lends history to the symbol itself and is a nifty explanation for design. Its meaning something in Kryptonese is fine. Hope is okay But if Superman is all about hope, he is all about nothing. Its easy to give some lines which sound important when a lazy writer wants to say something about the character.

If they have it as a family crest, do it something like this.



This hope thing is starting to annoy me.

Superman in the movie felt like superman in this clip. Bizarro. Snyder superman was still superman.He was unconfident, introverted, unsure of himself, reluctant as that guy called.. Etc. He at the end of the day answered the call. He is every bit of superman as the rest of them, maybe more so. JL superman didn't feel at all like superman.

I don't see any problem in the clip except a few dumb people. Why should i care if a kid calls Superman a dork? Wasn't he daring his friend to climb up the pole? The one who made this video sounds dumb too. Yes. Batman sounds cool. Emphasis on 'sounds'. Superman is cooler in my eyes. He can find some time to talk with a bunch of kids? Who does that? Who has patience? Some parents don't do that even with their own kids.

Batman was stern. Which is okay. The kid was older. He is supposed to be smarter. Superman was talking with younger kids. If a kid this young did this on a dare, chances are he is pretty stupid and needs some good instruction. Both are reasonable actions considering the respective situations.

[DochaDocha]

I don't see any problem in the clip except a few dumb people. Why should i care if a kid calls Superman a dork? Wasn't he daring his friend to climb up the pole? The one who made this video sounds dumb too. Yes. Batman sounds cool. Emphasis on 'sounds'. Superman is cooler in my eyes. He can find some time to talk with a bunch of kids? Who does that? Who has patience? Some parents don't do that even with their own kids.

Batman was stern. Which is okay. The kid was older. He is supposed to be smarter. Superman was talking with younger kids. If a kid this young did this on a dare, chances are he is pretty stupid and needs some good instruction. Both are reasonable actions considering the respective situations.

The video can be construed many ways. Probably the right way to construe it is that it's just a funny, ha-ha moment in STAS. But if you're one of those nerds who look too deeply into all of the context (and I'm one of them...), you'd notice that it reflects the show creators' views of the characters. The old JL Watchtower sight on Toonzone isn't online anymore (hope it gets restored), but they had a bank of quotes from the creators of the DCAU, and those included quotes about how "corny" Superman is and how he's not inherently cool like Batman. So if you're pessimistic (and I am about 50% of the time), then you might understandably see this as a nudge-wink cue to the fans that Superman is kind of dull and uninteresting.

[manwhohaseverything]

Ok. Fine. I thought you hated the Silver Age version as much as you love the GA version. I could be wrong but i guessed that a lot of your issues comes from those SA comics. Those comics tilted more to sci-fi adventures then when Superman started. I see that kind of Superman's influence on outside media far more then GA. .

Secondly, even if they didn't incorporate it correctly, they stopped pretending that previous movies didn't exist. However hokey one may find them, they exist. You can't make a Superman film in isolation. So, yeah its a reference.

And finally, i don't mind characters being too broad or two dimenional in team up films. In such films there is always something that is lost in characterization. Such films are more about doing awesome stuff together after doing the serious stuff in solo films.

I don't see any problem in the clip except a few dumb people. Why should i care if a kid calls Superman a dork? Wasn't he daring his friend to climb up the pole? The one who made this video sounds dumb too. Yes. Batman sounds cool. Emphasis on 'sounds'. Superman is cooler in my eyes. He can find some time to talk with a bunch of kids? Who does that? Who has patience? Some parents don't do that even with their own kids.

Batman was stern. Which is okay. The kid was older. He is supposed to be smarter. Superman was talking with younger kids. If a kid this young did this on a dare, chances are he is pretty stupid and needs some good instruction. Both are reasonable actions considering the respective situations.

I don't have a problem with silverage superman. When the character wasn't restricted by the code or writers successfully worked around it. But, i do have problem with aftermath of comics code and the creation of the "saint" superman.Batman wasn't stern.He delivered the point in a way that actually mattered. It wasn't about being cool. Batman just in the very clip did listen to the kids and saved them.See,when batman shows compassion he doesn't do it as this caricature cardboard cut out of a figure. It feels real.

People love batman for a reason. With all the jerk like behaviour.He is still a hero. It was just one liner, simple and elegant in that clip with kids risking life. Those kids would never do something that stupid. It drives the point home.But,clark's big idea is to pull a "hey! Kids, smoking is injuries to health" kinda nonsense .That makes him, a dork. His message doesn't mean much to the kids. They would do the same thing, again. See this is what comics code created. He is a parody of the real superman. In that clip it isn't actually surperman, its bizarro.

Being corny is fine. Cap was pretty corny dude.This was just pure mockery.The humour didn't feel humoures. Furthermore, he punched steppenwolf. But, nobody cared. When captain america punches people it means something. It means, some jackass curtailing freedom got their ass handed to him. Superman's punch meant nothing. Furthermore, i fail to see any connection between whatever that was and previous snyder movies.if you are talking about donner movies. Then sorry, nope! Donner didn't make a parody of superman. His superman was corny, sure. But, when his superman says he fights for truth, justice and the american way. It is no joke. There isn't anything to laugh about. He means it. Now, that guy being called dork was okay. He isn't a dork in material. he can back it up.The above portrayal with kids or jl movie portrayal cannot. It's purely making fun of superman.

[DochaDocha]

I'm getting a bit off-topic here, but one of the things I loved about Justice League Action is that they actually dared to suggest that Batman's coolness might actually be just an act and that Batman controls his image. It's not that I want to see writers mock Batman, it's just that no character should be above parody.

I don't find Snyder/Whedon Superman to be a mocked character. He's just not a very emotionally-deep Superman and that probably lost a lot of viewers for a movie that was struggling to keep them engaged in the first place.

[manwhohaseverything]

I'm getting a bit off-topic here, but one of the things I loved about Justice League Action is that they actually dared to suggest that Batman's coolness might actually be just an act and that Batman controls his image. It's not that I want to see writers mock Batman, it's just that no character should be above parody.

There is mockery without malice. I find it tasteful.But, this felt very malicious to me.I genuinely felt like i was watching two face with a cape.I was never pissed like that before. Even with how boring or cluttered bvs was. I would take darkknight returns superman over the guy i saw on screen. If feels like who silently hate the character wrote the script.

[Soubhagya]

The video can be construed many ways. Probably the right way to construe it is that it's just a funny, ha-ha moment in STAS. But if you're one of those nerds who look too deeply into all of the context (and I'm one of them...), you'd notice that it reflects the show creators' views of the characters. The old JL Watchtower sight on Toonzone isn't online anymore (hope it gets restored), but they had a bank of quotes from the creators of the DCAU, and those included quotes about how "corny" Superman is and how he's not inherently cool like Batman. So if you're pessimistic (and I am about 50% of the time), then you might understandably see this as a nudge-wink cue to the fans that Superman is kind of dull and uninteresting.

Okay. Now i understand it. Thanks for clearing this up. I have no idea of the behind the scenes stuff about DCAU. I was pretty young when these came out and had neither the means or patience to look up creators views and ideas. My experience with them is like, these are shows coming on Cartoon Network once a week and i was really excited to see them as i loved them.

So, yeah taken in isolation this is non-offensive. But considering everything this can anger someone.

I don't have a problem with silverage superman. When the character wasn't restricted by the code or writers successfully worked around it. But, i do have problem with aftermath of comics code and the creation of the "saint" superman.Batman wasn't stern.He delivered the point in a way that actually mattered. It wasn't about being cool. Batman just in the very clip did listen to the kids and saved them.See,when batman shows compassion he doesn't do it as this caricature cardboard cut out of a figure. It feels real.

People love batman for a reason. With all the jerk like behaviour.He is still a hero. It was just one liner, simple and elegant in that clip with kids risking life. Those kids would never do something that stupid. It drives the point home.But,clark's big idea is to pull a "hey! Kids, smoking is injuries to health" kinda nonsense .That makes him, a dork. His message doesn't mean much to the kids. They would do the same thing, again. See this is what comics code created. He is a parody of the real superman. In that clip it isn't actually surperman, its bizarro.

.

Okay after listening to DochaDocha and reading this i can see what you are saying. I took the video on face value about a character being cool and other being not.

I don't know what to think about. Superman being shown as some kind of 'saint' hasn't really bothered me. If this is what is considered saintly, then people should stop watching these movies and read more about saints. That will make the world a far better place. Its an inner desire within us to see our heroes be great. Isn't this what we want to see? Our heroes be wonderful. Be great. Every form of story whether involving Spartacus or Deadpool is more or less a glorification. Just look at some of the gangster movies for example. Goodfellas, Godfather, etc. These aren't decent people. Even if they make a point about them being wrong, they do make these characters interesting, entertaining and in many cases glamorous.

I don't know if you follow Star Wars but if you do, have you seen the backlash to Luke Skywalker in the Last Jedi? Even if he saves the day in the end, the damage was already done by showing him in a more humanistic or dare i say an 'ordinary' light.

That scene involving Batman is why my favorite Batman is from DCAU. Anyone can see in the prevous clip that Batman's terse 'you'll fry' appears more effective. But then are we talking about something being more effective? Superman's trying to talk with the kids is a perfectly reasonable action from his part, considering the situation and their age. You seem to be angry because it seems like people who wrote the script hate the character.

If that's what you think then i don't think i have anything more to say. If the writers in DCAU have such opinions about Superman, it is not an issue for me. Anyone can have any opinion. They did their job and made a pretty good show. Which brought in a good number of fans. Mockery is like Injustice. That thing can't bring a Superman fan.

Being corny is fine. Cap was pretty corny dude.This was just pure mockery.The humour didn't feel humoures. Furthermore, he punched steppenwolf. But, nobody cared. When captain america punches people it means something. It means, some jackass curtailing freedom got their ass handed to him. Superman's punch meant nothing. Furthermore, i fail to see any connection between whatever that was and previous snyder movies.if you are talking about donner movies. Then sorry, nope! Donner didn't make a parody of superman. His superman was corny, sure. But, when his superman says he fights for truth, justice and the american way. It is no joke. There isn't anything to laugh about. He means it. Now, that guy being called dork was okay. He isn't a dork in material. he can back it up.The above portrayal with kids or jl movie portrayal cannot. It's purely making fun of superman

Sometimes what a fellow wants to see is Superman kicking some *ss and calling some names. It would be much much better if it would have something more, like you said about Winter Soldier. But i had zero expectations after seeing they weren't interested to tell a Superman story after BvS. They usually tone down Superman's powers to prop others. Most notable example being DCAU. I didn't expect that Superman would be showed as this strong. They somewhat overdid it, but i would take it.

The connection i meant was that they used a reference. Fanservice.

Donner's Superman was definitely not parody. I don't know how you got that idea from me. I didn't get the sense that they were making fun of Superman in JL. It seemed like an attempt to copy a less serious style from MCU. That was the reason they brought Joss Whedon. To lighten up. Thus, you have quips. Even Batman was using unfunny one liners. This clashed with Snyder. Plus, if Superman was being made fun, why is he so competent in the fight? Look Superman is lame. No look Superman is bad*ss. What are we supposed to take from this?

[manwhohaseverything]

Okay after listening to DochaDocha and reading this i can see what you are saying. I took the video on face value about a character being cool and other being not.

I don't know what to think about. Superman being shown as some kind of 'saint' hasn't really bothered me. If this is what is considered saintly, then people should stop watching these movies and read more about saints. That will make the world a far better place. Its an inner desire within us to see our heroes be great. Isn't this what we want to see? Our heroes be wonderful. Be great. Every form of story whether involving Spartacus or Deadpool is more or less a glorification. Just look at some of the gangster movies for example. Goodfellas, Godfather, etc. These aren't decent people. Even if they make a point about them being wrong, they do make these characters interesting, entertaining and in many cases glamorous.

I don't know if you follow Star Wars but if you do, have you seen the backlash to Luke Skywalker in the Last Jedi? Even if he saves the day in the end, the damage was already done by showing him in a more humanistic or dare i say an 'ordinary' light.

That scene involving Batman is why my favorite Batman is from DCAU. Anyone can see in the prevous clip that Batman's terse 'you'll fry' appears more effective. But then are we talking about something being more effective? Superman's trying to talk with the kids is a perfectly reasonable action from his part, considering the situation and their age. You seem to be angry because it seems like people who wrote the script hate the character.

If that's what you think then i don't think i have anything more to say. If the writers in DCAU have such opinions about Superman, it is not an issue for me. Anyone can have any opinion. They did their job and made a pretty good show. Which brought in a good number of fans. Mockery is like Injustice. That thing can't bring a Superman fan.



Sometimes what a fellow wants to see is Superman kicking some *ss and calling some names. It would be much much better if it would have something more, like you said about Winter Soldier. But i had zero expectations after seeing they weren't interested to tell a Superman story after BvS. They usually tone down Superman's powers to prop others. Most notable example being DCAU. I didn't expect that Superman would be showed as this strong. They somewhat overdid it, but i would take it.

The connection i meant was that they used a reference. Fanservice.

Donner's Superman was definitely not parody. I don't know how you got that idea from me. I didn't get the sense that they were making fun of Superman in JL. It seemed like an attempt to copy a less serious style from MCU. That was the reason they brought Joss Whedon. To lighten up. Thus, you have quips. Even Batman was using unfunny one liners. This clashed with Snyder. Plus, if Superman was being made fun, why is he so competent in the fight? Look Superman is lame. No look Superman is bad*ss. What are we supposed to take from this?

There is such a thing as earning a gloryfication. For me, superman has done nothing to earn the glorification. I don't care if he is saint or not. But, when the his "sainthood" is seen as ideal. When his simplistic saintly advices are treated as some kind of great revealtion, that if you don't follow. you are pretty much stupid. That where i draw the line.

Yes and nope! It isn't reasonable. Why? Because superman is talking down to the kids. The way he talks screams, someone who is out of touch, naive. That isn't superman. That should never be how superman should be protrayed in a serious environment. That's caricature of superman.

Dude! He beat up a plastic doll in steppen wolf. That's not what i call kicking ass and taking names. There is no level of threats. Strength or powerlevel is secondary to competency. For a charcter to feel competent it needs something. I got nothing in JL. What reference? The race. Not much of references. The zack snyder movies are full of easter eggs. Why does it matter? I thought you were equating jl superman with donner superman. Which is what i disagreed with.

He wasn't competent in the fight. He bulldozed his opponent. In the middle of the fight,he is like "wait, citizens in trouble". He outruns flash,picks up a building full of people. Come right back, stops the kicks steppen wolf's ass. Stops merger of mother boxes.smiles for the camera.you know what the difficulty level was? Zero. It was boring(same complaint people have about the character) .There was nothing to steppenwolf as a villain. So, how is he being competent? That isn't competence. Competence is overcoming a hard obstacle or set of them. Moreover, I didn't see anything badass about that guy in jl. He was entirely lame. There is nothing to the guy.Sure,he was portrayed as high powerlevel. But, why should i care? The only scene worthy is clark seeing flash move. Everything else is just lame. That's just me i guess.

[Soubhagya]

There is such a thing as earning a gloryfication. For me, superman has done nothing to earn the glorification. I don't care if he is saint or not. But, when the his "sainthood" is seen as ideal. When his simplistic saintly advices are treated as some kind of great revealtion, that if you don't follow. you are pretty much stupid. That where i draw the line.

I don't diagree with you. In some places i like it. In others i don't.

Yes and nope! It isn't reasonable. Why? Because superman is talking down to the kids. The way he talks screams, someone who is out of touch, naive. That isn't superman. That should never be how superman should be protrayed in a serious environment. That's caricature of superman.

Lets just agree to disagree over this. I don't have a problem with this. But i know this turns off a number of people. So, i don't want to see this either. There are better ways to show Superman interacting with ordinary people.

And its wiser to steer Superman away from anything which shows him as some kind of authority figure. Very few people like Cyclops, but almost everyone likes Wolverine.

Dude! He beat up a plastic doll in steppen wolf. That's not what i call kicking ass and taking names. There is no level of threats. Strength or powerlevel is secondary to competency. For a charcter to feel competent it needs something. I got nothing in JL. What reference? The race. Not much of references. The zack snyder movies are full of easter eggs. Why does it matter? I thought you were equating jl superman with donner superman. Which is what i disagreed with.

He wasn't competent in the fight. He bulldozed his opponent. In the middle of the fight,he is like "wait, citizens in trouble". He outruns flash,picks up a building full of people. Come right back, stops the kicks steppen wolf's ass. Stops merger of mother boxes.smiles for the camera.you know what the difficulty level was? Zero. It was boring(same complaint people have about the character) .There was nothing to steppenwolf as a villain. So, how is he being competent? That isn't competence. Competence is overcoming a hard obstacle or set of them. Moreover, I didn't see anything badass about that guy in jl. He was entirely lame. There is nothing to the guy.Sure,he was portrayed as high powerlevel. But, why should i care? The only scene worthy is clark seeing flash move. Everything else is just lame. That's just me i guess.

I told you why i like it. Not to change your mind which is already made. These sort of things are subjective. You should have been at the theater where i was. The crowd was loving everytime Superman was in action. His 'eye turn' got the most applause. But they were cheering everytime Superman was fighting. This experience can vary from crowd to crowd depending on the audience. I think i would have loved to see him struggle. But i will take any little Superman in his prime.

[stargazer01]

Some people on twitter expressing why they joined ''the movement.'' So they never liked Superman until Zac made him real to them.. ok..


"I joined this movement because I never cared about Superman until I saw Man of Steel where Zack made Superman Relatable. I joined because I thought Batman was put on a Pedestal until I saw BvS. Zacks passion ignited a fire that will never die #ReleaseTheSnyderCut "

[manwhohaseverything]

Some people on twitter expressing why they joined ''the movement.'' So they never liked Superman until Zac made him real to them.. ok..


"I joined this movement because I never cared about Superman until I saw Man of Steel where Zack made Superman Relatable. I joined because I thought Batman was put on a Pedestal until I saw BvS. Zacks passion ignited a fire that will never die #ReleaseTheSnyderCut "

Why should it matter to you? They didn't find superman relatable. That's perfectly rational. As said, there plenty of people who are shy, unsure and introverted. For them, this superman is more than relatable. Though, i don't relate. I can understand. Batman is put on a pedastal. Snyder took the nietzschian trappings of batman and his conflict, turned it around in a way that made sense.

If superman were a god.He might be dead. But, man will regret not understanding his altruism. Treating him as just a solution to every problem or burning his very symbol for not being human.Even, if i disagree with the whole trapping. I can understand what he did. Savior or not superman is needed. Preferably Not as a savior but a champion.
On a quick note, i am glad it's being released. Superman should never feel hollow. JL theatrical was entirely hollow experience.