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  1. #31
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    I agree with everyone saying it's not the creative team, it's the editorial.

    Diana needs dedicated editors, under her own office. Nothing else will matter until she's got some protection from management, and those editors enforce a level of consistency and world building the character has rarely ever had.

    As far as creators go, a big long run from a quality talent will be a great starting point, but if the next creators afterwards are allowed to go their own way and reset everything then we won't be any better off than we are right now. So that editorial, and consistent, steady support, is critical.

    Who was the Bat editor who left for Vertigo? Mark Doyle? That guy did a great job with the Bat books and the Vertigo stuff seemed quality while it lasted. So I'd see if I could set that guy up as Diana's editor.

    As far as creators go, I think I'd like to lock Gaiman and Geoff Johns in a room for a weekend and make them write a character bible. Johns has a unnatural talent for working with continuity and Gaiman is.....well, he's Gaiman. Johns knows how to refine a character's mythos and Gaiman would be able to point things in the right direction, and between the two of them I think we could get a pretty fantastic foundation to build from.

    Then I'd like to get Gaiman on the book for a minimum of two years. He can pick his artists himself.

    But you know what? I'm not sure how much any effort would increase sales, at least in the short term. DC has spent years abusing Diana and letting writers churn out inconsistent product with no real, overall direction. And this has cultivated a sense among the general fandom that Diana's not worth reading. And they're right; what's the point in investing in the title when the next creators will just ignore all the development the previous guys did and go their own way? Years of inconsistency have done a lot of damage to Diana's brand and there's no quick, easy fix. It'll take long term investment to prove to readers that Diana's book is being treated better, and any big name creator or development is more than just a flash in the pan. DC should be looking for long-term, steady increases in sales instead of a quick, short-term spike.

    Gaiman on WW would definitely do well in trade, but the direct market is too gun-shy about her book for any short-term effort to really provide any worthwhile gains. DC has to overcome the damage they've done to her before readers will trust that the book is worth keeping up with.
    "We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another, as if we were one single tribe."

    ~ Black Panther.

  2. #32
    Hey Baby--Wha's Happ'nin? HandofPrometheus's Avatar
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    I still think Johns should've taken over after Darkseid War. He would definitely make Diana a big deal. Scott Snyder too probably.

  3. #33
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Ehh, Johns' big contributions to the WW mythos following Darkseid War were Grail and Jason, both of which were really bad. He probably would have developed it better than Robinson, but Grail still sucked even Darkseid War.

    Johns with a co-author would be better than Johns as a solo act though. He's not a writer well suited to the Trinity in general, but he seemingly works well with Jenkins and Ascended's scenario with Gaiman sounds great too. As long as he is with a strong collaborator with equal power (like Jenkins, Gaiman, Rucka or Jimenez) I think we would see much better results than what he has done with Batman and especially Superman
    Last edited by SiegePerilous02; 05-08-2020 at 09:59 AM.

  4. #34
    Ultimate Member Gaius's Avatar
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    I think Johns got better with her character, if not his contributions to her larger world, in the New 52 than in the 2000s so if weren't to write her I think he, or a previous notable WW writer, would make a decent editor on her.
    Last edited by Gaius; 05-08-2020 at 01:18 PM.

  5. #35
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    Right now under Batman. She was under Superman but due to Rucka, she was moved. If Dc cared the thing would be to movie her family under her and get her own editorial team. She would need some books too. Right now who would be a good editorial team? Geoff left and is now doing his own thing. He is helping the Wonder Woman movie and tv show.

  6. #36
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    That's basically all I would want from Johns. He writes a painfully bland Batman and his Superman is straight up offensive. He's better with Diana but he doesn't seem to really have a grip on her world, even if his voice for her has improved somewhat.

    But there is nobody in the business better at utilizing continuity and history than Johns. What he's done with characters like Hawkman and continuity like Green Lantern's is incredible; he's got a knack for finding the core, central themes and building on them, and establishing connections and bridges between seemingly unconnected ends of a mythos. I'd be perfectly happy to have Johns sit down and define Diana's world. I just don't want him writing the book. And his star seems to have set somewhat, so I don't think he'd be a guarantee of high sales either (much like Bendis).
    "We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another, as if we were one single tribe."

    ~ Black Panther.

  7. #37
    The Comixeur Mel Dyer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amazon Swordsman View Post
    There are a few people on this sub forum who could do a handy job of that. What’s the standard size for an editorial office for high profile heroes??
    I would love to see what some of our fellow fans, here, could do, putting a four or five-paged, digital WW comic, together. I think it would be a nice reprieve from the doom and gloom of COVID quarantine, ..and I bet it would better, than anything we've read in ages.
    COMBINING THE BIGBADITUDE OF THANOS WITH CHEETAH'S FEROCITY, IS JANUS WONDER WOMAN'S GREATEST SUPERVILLAIN?...on WONDABUNGA!!! Look alive, Kangaliers!

  8. #38
    Incredible Member Amazon Swordsman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmiMizuno View Post
    Right now under Batman. She was under Superman but due to Rucka, she was moved. If Dc cared the thing would be to movie her family under her and get her own editorial team. She would need some books too. Right now who would be a good editorial team? Geoff left and is now doing his own thing. He is helping the Wonder Woman movie and tv show.
    Has this even been asked, or has any credible person from the company explained why that is? The unstated assumption I’m getting is that I’m guessing the higher ups either don’t think she has enough source material to warrant an independent editorial office, or that it’s not important enough to just be swallowed up under another. Flip flopping between the other two makes no sense.

  9. #39
    Invincible Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amazon Swordsman View Post
    Has this even been asked, or has any credible person from the company explained why that is? The unstated assumption I’m getting is that I’m guessing the higher ups either don’t think she has enough source material to warrant an independent editorial office, or that it’s not important enough to just be swallowed up under another. Flip flopping between the other two makes no sense.
    WW only has one ongoing so she gets folded under one of the larger groups. There’s Batman, Superman, JL (which I think covers the team book and the ongoing for the non-Trinity members), and I think a Titans office. The reason is that she doesn’t have enough books of her own to justify her own editorial office. My hope is that they’ll launch Sensation again around whenever WW1984 comes out, it will do well, and then maybe we can get a WW editorial office.

  10. #40
    Incredible Member Amazon Swordsman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    WW only has one ongoing so she gets folded under one of the larger groups. There’s Batman, Superman, JL (which I think covers the team book and the ongoing for the non-Trinity members), and I think a Titans office. The reason is that she doesn’t have enough books of her own to justify her own editorial office. My hope is that they’ll launch Sensation again around whenever WW1984 comes out, it will do well, and then maybe we can get a WW editorial office.
    Ah, so it’s determined mainly by ongoing titles? Do you know how many titles Batman and Superman have each? This sounds like something they should have focus groups on or something. There’s enough material for at least one more ongoing WW title imo. Her current status in comics sounds quite prone to conflicts in continuity and character, among other things. If she makes appearances in several of those comics (which she has), and editorial duties for her switch and flip flop between offices, who do they consult to establish any kind of consistency?

  11. #41
    Astonishing Member WonderScott's Avatar
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    While there are many different creators that I’d enjoy seeing what they’d do with Diana and her world, what’s more important (if the goal is to make her as big as Superman and Batman) is what they say, or are allowed to say with her.

    The most original and influential stories told in comics had something to say or explore with characters like Batman or Superman or in tales like Watchman. Whoever the creators are, they capture something intriguing about the character that also captures the zeitgeist of moment.

    The spirit of Diana and her world were built to tackle sexism, all forms of bigotry, psychology, sociology, politics, etc. through fantasy and fantastic-ism in a meaningful way. Her very being is still controversial based on the real-world problems we have and systems of oppression we live under.

    Until DC and DC Editorial embrace and promote everything that Wonder Woman can be, we’ll continue to get “okay” stories, but nothing that is remarkable in how it portrays Diana and her world and connects to an audience bigger than just comic fans.

    In my Wonder Woman Series Bible Thingee I’m working on, I’ve been trying to align certain friends and foes of Diana with multifaceted ideas and themes that represent and inform their characters, but are much bigger thematically than just them, in order to add more depth to her world. It’s been a fun process to consider diverse characters like Doctor Poison or Ferdinand or The Mask or Inversion and come up with multiple ways the world has meaning for them, and how to portray that, and discover which characters might overlap or come into conflict with one another based on their themes.
    Last edited by WonderScott; 05-23-2020 at 04:03 PM.

  12. #42
    Invincible Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amazon Swordsman View Post
    Ah, so it’s determined mainly by ongoing titles? Do you know how many titles Batman and Superman have each? This sounds like something they should have focus groups on or something. There’s enough material for at least one more ongoing WW title imo. Her current status in comics sounds quite prone to conflicts in continuity and character, among other things. If she makes appearances in several of those comics (which she has), and editorial duties for her switch and flip flop between offices, who do they consult to establish any kind of consistency?
    Keeping in mind that it’s Batman/Superman and also members of their “family” under each office, Batman has:
    Batman
    Detective Comics
    Batman & The Outsiders
    Batgirl
    Nightwing
    Batwoman (ended)


    Superman has:
    Superman
    Action Comics
    Supergirl
    Superwoman (ended)
    Super Sons (ended)
    New Super-Man (ended)

    Dunno which office edits Batman/Superman by Willamson.

    It’s not a question of material, it’s a question of sales. Can Diana sell well enough to sustain two ongoings? Sensation Comics sales were not satisfactory to DC. Part of the reasons sales weren’t great, in my opinion, is that they made it an anthology book of one and done stories with rotating creators. If they relaunched it as an ongoing set in main continuity with another creative team that stuck around, I think it would sell better.

  13. #43
    Extraordinary Member kjn's Avatar
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    I think you'd need a relatively young and hungry creator to do this. If we look at stuff like DKR or The Killing Joke, part of their status comes from being seminal works from early in the careers of their creators.

    Among established DC creators, the only ones I could see would be a teamup between Gail Simone and Stjepan Sejic, with an explicit mandate to explore Diana's queer and kink side, probably with a side in gender politics and with a goal to bring the fun back in Wonder Woman.

    But Wonder Woman has been neutered by DC for so long a time that restoring her would take a lot more than a single creator, and I'm afraid Wilson's run showed that it's not possible to break Wonder Woman's chains while bound by the current continuity.

    I believe Kelly Sue DeConnick has the right instincts, but otherwise I'd do a DC Young, and look for writers with a background from outside comics. Shannon and Dean Hale did a great job with Diana: Princess of the Amazons, but here I'd look for people with a firm background in worldbuilding and, for lack of a better term, social justice theory. Nalo Hopkinson (though she is a bit on the old side) or NK Jemisin comes to mind. Seanan McGuire would be wonderful, but she's a Marvel fangirl through and through. If Zen Cho was willing to come into comics, I think she could do great things with Wonder Woman.
    «Speaking generally, it is because of the desire of the tragic poets for the marvellous that so varied and inconsistent an account of Medea has been given out» (Diodorus Siculus, The Library of History [4.56.1])

  14. #44
    Fantastic Member VonHammersmark's Avatar
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    That ship has sailed, the comic book industry is in total creative bankruptcy, the old guard of CB writers are a spent creative force and the younger ones are a bunch of talentless ideologues. Patty Jenkins and Gal Gadot are the only ones who can achieve that now so here's hoping ww84 is a huge hit despite covid-19

  15. #45
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    Who would you put in charge of Diana? Geoff Johns is gone but he is still helping with the movie.

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