How well has Marvel handled hero mantles?

[TheRay]

So vision. torch, black widow, dr doom, the thing, hulk, ghost rider, angel and others have to rename? None of them are the originals!

I mean if I could decide every single that happens in the world, then yes I would like to see that happen.

[JudicatorPrime]

I mean if I could decide every single that happens in the world, then yes I would like to see that happen.

Renaming Vision, Human Torch, Black Widow, Doctor Doom, The Thing, The Hulk, Ghost Rider, Angel, etc., might actually be fun. Marvel could make a contest of it and award various prizes, including a digital subscription to the comic of their choice. Let's give it a whirl, shall we? And let's do it chronologically, so that any names given to characters who were created later are fair game. Those other characters will just have to find a different name.

Vision - The Wraith
Human Torch II - Firelord, Firestorm, The Solar Flare, Kid Corona, Johnny Nova, Scorch
Black Widow - Red Kara (short for Karakurt, a deadly spider found in parts of Russia)
Doctor Doom - Mister Malefic, Dr. Deus, Dr. Deo
Thing - Brother Grimm
Hulk - Leviathan,
Ghost Rider - The Ghostmaker, Dark Marauder
Angel - Archangel

[TheRay]

For Vision I have just been going with Ultravision.

[ETMike1988]

For Vision I have just been going with Ultravision.

Eurovision.

[TheRay]

I can see all of the jokes that could stem from adding something to the front of his name, but it isn't like the Spider-Man hyphen crowd wouldn't go for it.

[pageturner]

For Vision I have just been going with Ultravision.

Form a partnership with Monica

Spectra-Vision

edit you need to add Cable and make it a triple play

[TheRay]

That would be more of a team name.

[Midnight_v]

1. The title should never revert back to the previous possessor without a damn good reason. Fans not liking the change isn't a good enough reason. That should have been taken into consideration by editorial and the creative team and nixed BEFORE they made the change. Some of the blowback of mantle swapping could have been avoided if they had just thought it through to its logical end. I get that it never hurts to shake things up, but seriously, stop and think about what you're doing before you do it.

Its funny I'd think that's the ONLY good enough reason. Like I change the identity of someone and it causes fans to plummet the sales... well then its just an event/evolution redemption arc of the original character back to prominence. Kind of a hit or miss thing, I'd think.

...but... I agree they should think it through and consider that outcome first. That being said its a calculated risk and they can revert if the character doesn't hit right.

[JKtheMac]

Its funny I'd think that's the ONLY good enough reason. Like I change the identity of someone and it causes fans to plummet the sales... well then its just an event/evolution redemption arc of the original character back to prominence. Kind of a hit or miss thing, I'd think.

...but... I agree they should think it through and consider that outcome first. That being said its a calculated risk and they can revert if the character doesn't hit right.

This is a circular argument. The writers and editors have already put this thought in. Worrying about what they should or shouldn’t be thinking is often an exercise in mind reading.

Usually, if the writers are good at their craft (and IMO just about anyone qualified to work at Marvel has to have a pretty solid track record) it is pretty obvious right from the start what kind of arc it is going to be. When Wolverine died it was quite obvious they were just hitting pause. When Thor became unworthy it was quite obvious they were exploring different aspects of what it means to be Thor. When they put Doctor Octopus in Parker’s body it was quite obvious that it would serve as a lens though which we could view different choices that fans often used to say Peter should take. The story is king and it doesn’t get written by accident.

[Username taken]

As others have pointed out, characters like Ms Marvel and Human Torch are somewhat excluded from this because no one was using the names they adopted.

That being said, I’m not entirely a fan of hero mantles being passed around. For some characters like Green Lantern it’s kind of ok because of the nature of the character. But I do understand that it’s a way of building interest in new characters. For all the ridiculous noise around All New All Different Marvel, anyone that’s read comics for an average length of time would know that it was all temporary. Marvel generally does stuff like this to boost sales and interest in their characters, how successful it is is an entirely different discussion.

That’s why I’m generally weary of passing mantles around, it doesn’t mean much ultimately if it just reverts back to status quo. The most egregious examples of this has to be Wally West and Danny Ketch where the traits of the newer and for all intents and purposes more successful characters are simply transported over to the original when they’re brought back.

[JudicatorPrime]

Its funny I'd think that's the ONLY good enough reason. Like I change the identity of someone and it causes fans to plummet the sales... well then its just an event/evolution redemption arc of the original character back to prominence. Kind of a hit or miss thing, I'd think.

I understand your point, but for permanent mantle changes, they should stick to their guns and ride out the early low sales. I'm not talking about stories where writers are temporarily setting aside a mantle to explore and develop other aspects of the character. In most of those cases the fans pretty much know that the hero will pick up their mantle again and continue on their merry little way. That pretty much describes every Captain America "mantle swap" that I can remember. All were temporary and fans knew it -- or at least strongly suspected that the original would be back.

But if a creative team decides to have a permanent mantle change, as is apparently the case with Quasar (Wendell Vaughn), then they should stick to their guns and move forward with the new character. No matter how many letters/emails/forum posts half-joking threats to life and limb I write, or tears that I cry for Wendell to regain the mantle and Quantum bands, they better not do it. Let me learn to embrace the new Quasar. Or not. After all, most changes are meant to draw in new readers. It's ok if they don't always cater to us old farts who have hogged the industry to ourselves for the past few decades.

[TheRay]

Let me start by saying that I've never been a big fan of mantle-switching, unless it involved a Golden Age character that is no longer active being updated for modern consumption

I even oppose this. If they wish to do that they should just resurrect the character.

[9th.]

They do about as well as they can do given the climate and their fanbase.

[Electricmastro]

General thoughts on Miguel O'Hara as Spider-Man?

[skyvolt2000]

I understand your point, but for permanent mantle changes, they should stick to their guns and ride out the early low sales. I'm not talking about stories where writers are temporarily setting aside a mantle to explore and develop other aspects of the character. In most of those cases the fans pretty much know that the hero will pick up their mantle again and continue on their merry little way. That pretty much describes every Captain America "mantle swap" that I can remember. All were temporary and fans knew it -- or at least strongly suspected that the original would be back.

But if a creative team decides to have a permanent mantle change, as is apparently the case with Quasar (Wendell Vaughn), then they should stick to their guns and move forward with the new character. No matter how many letters/emails/forum posts half-joking threats to life and limb I write, or tears that I cry for Wendell to regain the mantle and Quantum bands, they better not do it. Let me learn to embrace the new Quasar. Or not. After all, most changes are meant to draw in new readers. It's ok if they don't always cater to us old farts who have hogged the industry to ourselves for the past few decades.

With all the hostile, threatening, doxxing and vulgar behavior we have seen-folks forgot about that.

Along with cherry picking- Riri never called herself Ironman. Doom did. Punisher was in War Machine armor. Only one of these got backlash.

Luke Cage's daughter has been Thor and Cap America-no one threw a fit.


So why throw fits over Jane and others? When history has shown many come back? Especially when we get fake rage. Folks were yelling for a Moon Boy & Devil Dino book. Yet Moon Girl showed up and suddenly he has upset fans? It's not like they still can't use him. Now they have a bigger franchise to use with both.