How well has Marvel handled hero mantles?

[Zero Hunter]

I think the main thing is even if it isn't it should feel like it is going to be permanent. With Falcon and Bucky we all know they were just playing Cap and sooner or latter Steve was going to be back. Same with Thor, Iron Man, and others. With Ghost Rider when they created Dan Ketch it had been Years since Johnny Blaze had even been seen so it felt more like a real "passing the title" move and not just a sales gimick. Even when Blaze did come back into the Ghost Rider book he was not Ghost Rider he was just Blaze. The problem comes when latter writers want "their" version of the character back and just wave the magic reset wand.

At this point the passing the mantle troupe is tired and played out because we all know within a few years it is going to be reset. It is the same as character deaths. We just know nothing is going to stick.

[JudicatorPrime]

With franchise characters you know it's a temporary thing. Even if the person taking over turns out to be a hit, you know it can't last. So why bother? You can't win. Sure, Jane Thor may be getting a movie, but in comics she's already been shunted to Valkyrie status...and in my mind she's all the lesser for it. Even if she was the only Valkyrie, she's lesser for it. Anything short of God of Thunder should be viewed as a demotion. Jane and her fans deserved better.

[Electricmastro]

General thoughts on Laura Kinney as Wolverine?

[Frontier]

I think the main thing is even if it isn't it should feel like it is going to be permanent. With Falcon and Bucky we all know they were just playing Cap and sooner or latter Steve was going to be back. Same with Thor, Iron Man, and others. With Ghost Rider when they created Dan Ketch it had been Years since Johnny Blaze had even been seen so it felt more like a real "passing the title" move and not just a sales gimick. Even when Blaze did come back into the Ghost Rider book he was not Ghost Rider he was just Blaze. The problem comes when latter writers want "their" version of the character back and just wave the magic reset wand.

At this point the passing the mantle troupe is tired and played out because we all know within a few years it is going to be reset. It is the same as character deaths. We just know nothing is going to stick.

I think part of the problem was that Marvel handled the legacy identities with the expectation that they would be sticking even if for one reason or another they were eventually going to revert back. I think this is ultimately the tragic fate of ANAD Marvel.

General thoughts on Laura Kinney as Wolverine?

The only feel good Wolverine run in existence.

[Will Evans]

General thoughts on Laura Kinney as Wolverine?

At a time when Wolverine was way way way too over exposed, many were glad they killed him off and thought she deserved the mantle.

As someone mentioned earlier, the good outcome of ANAD Marvel is that it gave the MCU plenty of choices for when the current actors no longer wish to play the characters in real life, and can allow for them to have source material for other actors with contracts to assume the roles.

[Gaastra]

I kind of liked her as wolverine but knew from day one marvel would bring the original back.

[The tall man]

My issue with legacy characters is when the originals are **** upon to prop up the replacements. A character has a known identity for decades in some cases then for numerous reasons writers/editorial decide to take them off the board. They then hand their mantles to another and proceed to claim the replacement is better in every way. Examples include Jane Thor, X-23 and Kate Bishop all being hailed as superior to their predecessors. My opinion would be that if these characters are so great then why did others have to be pushed aside so they could their mantles/identities. Can't they survive on their own merits, should Thor, Logan and Clint have to removed so Jane, Laura and Kate can shine? Let them swim or sink on their own.

[Will Evans]

I actually loved the time of Dark Reign, when supervillains or shifty character tried taking the roles of main superheroes, but failed at it. Or others trying to keep the legacy of their dead loved ones.

Norman : Iron Man (Patriot)
Bullseye: Hawkeye
Quasar: Phyla-Vell
MacGargan: Spider-Man
Moonstone: Ms Marvel
Nohr-Varr: Captain Marvel
Hank Pym: Wasp
Eric O’Grady: Ant-man
Ross: Red Hulk
Skaar: Hulk
Lyra: Hulk
Betty: She-Hulk
Daken: Wolverine
Bucky: Captain America

Killmonger as Dark Black Panther would have been interesting.



(I know they did it for a couple of issues and off panel, but I mean for a full arc)

[Holt]

As others have said it's easier to get into when Marvel actually commits. I've found Marvel usually plays it safe by making it clear the original will be back at some point, even going back to the days when Rhodey became Iron Man. All-New Wolverine was an absolutely excellent series but nobody on the planet ever thought Logan was seriously gone for good.

[Somecrazyaussie]

I’m surprised Daredevil and Moon Knight never had their mantles passed albeit temporarily. (Aside from Iron Fist dressed as Daredevil while Matt was in prison).

I thought that’s where Blindspot was leading to.


Also I thought Khonshu was going to pick a temporary champion.

Black Panther took over DD's book after Shadowland. But Daredevil has never really been replaced. If he is, it is often short like the Iron Fist example you mentioned.

I love Moon Knight. But his reputation in the comics is enough that nobody in their right mind would ever consider taking it on lol. Khonshu could always choose another avatar, but I think they would take on a different name.

[ETMike1988]

Black Panther took over DD's book after Shadowland. But Daredevil has never really been replaced. If he is, it is often short like the Iron Fist example you mentioned.

I love Moon Knight. But his reputation in the comics is enough that nobody in their right mind would ever consider taking it on lol. Khonshu could always choose another avatar, but I think they would take on a different name.

And he has got multiple personalities so he is the replacement of himself.

[Somecrazyaussie]

Black Panther took over DD's book after Shadowland. But Daredevil has never really been replaced. If he is, it is often short like the Iron Fist example you mentioned.

I love Moon Knight. But his reputation in the comics is enough that nobody in their right mind would ever consider taking it on lol. Khonshu could always choose another avatar, but I think they would take on a different name.

I think the main thing is even if it isn't it should feel like it is going to be permanent. With Falcon and Bucky we all know they were just playing Cap and sooner or latter Steve was going to be back. Same with Thor, Iron Man, and others. With Ghost Rider when they created Dan Ketch it had been Years since Johnny Blaze had even been seen so it felt more like a real "passing the title" move and not just a sales gimick. Even when Blaze did come back into the Ghost Rider book he was not Ghost Rider he was just Blaze. The problem comes when latter writers want "their" version of the character back and just wave the magic reset wand.

At this point the passing the mantle troupe is tired and played out because we all know within a few years it is going to be reset. It is the same as character deaths. We just know nothing is going to stick.

Replacing characters often allows a writer to exam the legacy of the original. To ultimately show what makes them special and why they are irreplaceable. The Death Of Superman did it beautifully. Knightfall gave us a Batman who was a loose cannon and had no code to operate by. Wally West more than lived up to Barry's legacy. Each time Cap has been replaced proved how important he is as a symbol/ideal.

If the writer approaches it with the above in mind, the story is often worth it. It is when it is done for nothing other than shock value that it all goes sideways.

[Somecrazyaussie]

And he has got multiple personalities so he is the replacement of himself.

True. Actually, he did replace himself. He killed off the Marc Spector identity and became Steven Grant full-time. The Marc Spector identity came back during Shadowland.

[Digifiend]

With franchise characters you know it's a temporary thing. Even if the person taking over turns out to be a hit, you know it can't last. So why bother? You can't win. Sure, Jane Thor may be getting a movie, but in comics she's already been shunted to Valkyrie status...and in my mind she's all the lesser for it. Even if she was the only Valkyrie, she's lesser for it. Anything short of God of Thunder should be viewed as a demotion. Jane and her fans deserved better.

There was a way to do it, too. In War of the Realms, she used the Earth-1610 Mjolnir to turn into Thor one last time. The hammer was destroyed - they could've just not done that - but melted into a gauntlet which is permanently bonded to her, which is now the weapon she uses as Valkyrie. To be honest, I wouldn't be surprised if they ended up resurrecting the Valkyries (adding one who looks like the movie one? They did use such a version in Exiles, but she was from an AU), and Jane ends up reverting back in time for Thor: Love and Thunder - the way that her powers work means that she can create any weapon... so it could easily turn back into a copy of Mjolnir. The costume change simply came about because she gained the Valkyrie powers. The Avengers already know the new Valkyrie is the female Thor (though only a few, including Thor obviously, plus Doctor Strange, Falcon, and Captain America, know she's Jane Foster).

[Frontier]

Replacing characters often allows a writer to exam the legacy of the original. To ultimately show what makes them special and why they are irreplaceable. The Death Of Superman did it beautifully. Knightfall gave us a Batman who was a loose cannon and had no code to operate by. Wally West more than lived up to Barry's legacy. Each time Cap has been replaced proved how important he is as a symbol/ideal.

If the writer approaches it with the above in mind, the story is often worth it. It is when it is done for nothing other than shock value that it all goes sideways.

That's usually the trend with legacy characters but I feel like that sentiment became less pronounced with the ANAD legacy replacements where it was more about selling you on the replacements, sometimes at the expense of the original, then honoring the original...well, at least until they had to bring them back.

There were some exceptions to this like FalCap and even Cho as Hulk by the end, but I think Jane Foster as Thor is probably the biggest example of what I'm thinking of.