Reasons for JL being more successfull than TT,YJ....

[king81992]

Don't know, Cyborgs solos had pretty low sales and Raven had several minis in the last years, but it seems they were not successful enough for DC to consider doing an ongoing.

Cyborg's problem is that writers refuse to give him a decent supporting cast and rogue gallery. They also prefer to give him a supporting cast of literally whos instead of using characters most readers and fans are familiar with.

If DC wanted Cyborg to have a successful solo, they'd use some characters from the Titans and TT as his supporting cast. It wouldn't be the worse thing DC did with the Titans

[Aahz]

If DC wanted Cyborg to have a successful solo, they'd use some characters from the Titans and TT as his supporting cast. It wouldn't be the worse thing DC did with the Titans

But then it would not really be a solo imo.

And building up a good rogues gallery is really not an easy task, and takes really years, especially nowadays with the decompressed story telling, where character may only have 1 or 2 stoyarcs a year.

[LordMikel]

Cyborg's problem is that writers refuse to give him a decent supporting cast and rogue gallery. They also prefer to give him a supporting cast of literally whos instead of using characters most readers and fans are familiar with.

If DC wanted Cyborg to have a successful solo, they'd use some characters from the Titans and TT as his supporting cast. It wouldn't be the worse thing DC did with the Titans

Also I think they need to get away from the, "Am I a man or machine" storyline whininess.

[SiegePerilous02]

Cyborg's problem is that writers refuse to give him a decent supporting cast and rogue gallery. They also prefer to give him a supporting cast of literally whos instead of using characters most readers and fans are familiar with.

If DC wanted Cyborg to have a successful solo, they'd use some characters from the Titans and TT as his supporting cast. It wouldn't be the worse thing DC did with the Titans

But then it would not really be a solo imo.

And building up a good rogues gallery is really not an easy task, and takes really years, especially nowadays with the decompressed story telling, where character may only have 1 or 2 stoyarcs a year.

They have difficult giving Nightwing a rogues gallery. Seeley gave us a few good villains, but he was shackled by the Bludhaven stuff and even the few good ones he came up with were derailed by the Ric stuff. Wally lucked out by inheriting all previous Flash villains so his new ones could blend in with them.

Building a solo rogues gallery for any other solo Titan may not be a realistic expectation. The one they have as a group seriously needs some new blood in it too.

[king81992]

They have difficult giving Nightwing a rogues gallery. Seeley gave us a few good villains, but he was shackled by the Bludhaven stuff and even the few good ones he came up with were derailed by the Ric stuff. Wally lucked out by inheriting all previous Flash villains so his new ones could blend in with them.

Building a solo rogues gallery for any other solo Titan may not be a realistic expectation. The one they have as a group seriously needs some new blood in it too.

Titans rogue gallery needs actual character first. Animation got things right, gave the Fearsome Five personalities while they don't have that in the comics. Maybe expand their roster.

Church of Blood needs personality and actual names characters to act as Brother Blood 's henchmen. He had named henchmen in the past, but they had no personality.

HIVE needs an actual leader and an angle that doesn't make them look like a bootleg version of AIM from Marvel. I'd nominate either Queen Bee or Harvest (minus the future earlier thing, of course) for leader and give them some enforcers.

[Aahz]

They have difficult giving Nightwing a rogues gallery. Seeley gave us a few good villains, but he was shackled by the Bludhaven stuff and even the few good ones he came up with were derailed by the Ric stuff. Wally lucked out by inheriting all previous Flash villains so his new ones could blend in with them.

Even Green Arrow doesn't have one, and he is a solo hero since the 1940s.

And if you look at Batman, how many good villains have been added to his Rogues Gallery in the past 20 years?

[Lee Stone]

HIVE needs an actual leader and an angle that doesn't make them look like a bootleg version of AIM from Marvel. I'd nominate either Queen Bee or Harvest (minus the future earlier thing, of course) for leader and give them some enforcers.

Queen Bee is the most obvious choice.
She pretty much has her own country, has been shown to be quite ruthless, has owned a superteam hench-squad (although they didn't know that's what they were at the time), has a nice gimmick with the espionage angle and has also been shown to work well beyond JLI with the Young Justice cartoon.

[Will Evans]

Because the JLA got Gypsy and Vibe and Steel.

The Titans got Cyborg, Starfire and Raven.

[king81992]

Also I think they need to get away from the, "Am I a man or machine" storyline whininess.

Man vs machine storyline needs to be shelved, it does nothing to help Cyborg and degraded his character.

[Masterff]

I'd like at least one member of the Super family to be a regular member of the Titans( Kon technically counts, but I always associate him with Young Justice and his time on the Teen Titans damaged his character in the long run, like everyone else from YJ).

I have to say that I like every character better in TT than in YJ...

Conner was definetely better in TT than in YJ...and was finally able to step out of the shadow of clark..

To be fair the Teen Titans are still DCÂ’s second biggest team franchise with some very popular characters! Although with the failure of the JL movie they might be in a better position than them.

Anyway, to answer the question it mostly has to do with management and team image. The Teen Titans have way too much focus on derivative, miniature versions of the Justice League members and that alone makes them feel like a minor lesser than team. Get rid of all the boys, girls, lads...etc and the image will improve. ItÂ’s no wonder the most prominently used, popular characters of the team are the non sidekicks (Starfire, Raven, Cyborg, Beast Boy, Bumblebee, Blue Beetle, Terra, Static) with Nightwing/Robin being the exception. Basically,

Wonder Woman > Wonder Girl
Flash > Kid Flash
Aquaman > Aqualad/Aquagirl
Green Arrow > Speedy/Red Arrow
Superman > Superboy/ Supergirl
Martian Manhunter > Ms Martian

Want to build up the Titans? Focus less on the sidekicks and more on the original characters.

Actually thats not true...

Better way would to show that these characters can also be on par with the JL characters..

Good example is the YJ Anime where it was stated that Miss Martian is superior to her uncle Martian Manhunter..

Johns TT did also do a good job by letting Conner be the one who was able to fight back against Superboy Prime and destroy the tower...
So better Idea would be to do it like Johns did with his run and give them also feats and let them grow up..

Better would be to invest time in making Conner,Cassie,Bart,Tim.....different to their "mentors".

Like I always said I liked Cassies Pre-Flashpoint Origin better than her Rebirth etc. Origin.
Cassie as ZEUS DAUGHTER would have been perfect to make her different to Diana...So Diana as trained Amazon and Cassie as daughter of Zeus who had also some other powers like Elektrokinesis.

Conner would also only need a new Codename and try to make him different to Superman in his views etc.
He with his TTK, his origin etc. has a great possibility to make him different to Clark.

As a kid, I liked both Kid Flash and Wonder Girl better than their mentors. One big reason was they had better uniforms. But Wonder Woman seemed more stiff. I did like both of the adults -- and regularly collected their comics in the early Bronze Age.

I think, though, that Titans suffered from weak stories. It's a shame because Titans typically had better art than JLA -- at least until Perez replaced Dillin (who was okay, but kinda dull).

I agree with the uniforms etc.
For me the Titans are the MODERN!! Interpretation of the JL...

I liked that they dont have Capes etc. and I always thought that characters like Hawkman etc. are over the top etc.

It also helps that the Avengers and X-Men have different enough mission statements. The older Titans have struggled to define a niche for themselves within the superhero community which has caused them to become stagnant since the end of the Wolfman era. X-Men and Avengers stories can feel large and important because they tend to focus on distinct aspects of a shared universe, so a reader doesn’t feel the need to rank them in terms of who is more relevant to the current affairs of the MU. Because the Justice League brand has monopolized big time superhero stories the Titans need a stronger hook than “we’re a family!”.

Actually that would BE NO PROBLEM...
Solution would simply be to allow the Titans also to OUTPERFORM their "mentors"....Only Wally/Bart seem to be able to outperform their "Mentors"..
And make them Independent..

You could have easily given some events to them only...
Death Metal for example could also have been a Titans Event or Titans with JL mixed..

So like I said if they are able to outperform their mentors and also given their own events, I really think they could be as sucessfull as the JL.

And if they are also different to their mentors..

I like the Idea of Cassie with new Code-Name aged up and displayed more as demigodess like THOR (MARVEL) with Elektrokinesis and not as Amazon.
Conner with his TTK, aged up, different Codename could also be the modern Interpretation of Superman...

[Masterff]

GRADUATION DAY for example was a PERFECT EXAMPLE how it should be..

Vic (Cyborg) made it clear that the TT are not under the control of the JL.


In Contrast I absolutely HATE!!!! the Rebirth encounters with Clark and JL
TItans Encounter with Clark where Roy got a hiccup and Donna calling him Sir
YJ Encounter with Clark where even Conner called him Sir etc.

[Digifiend]

Overall, your point is correct, but just to be technical, Supergirl (Matrix) joined in 1995 Teen Titans 121. According to Wikipedia, which in this case I believe is correct.

But current version of Supergirl should very much be a member of Teen Titans.

Edit: And I believe that was for like 6 issues and then something caused a reboot.

You mean New Titans? There was no Teen Titans book in 1995. Wolfman's New Titans was a few months away from being cancelled (it wasn't a reboot). A brand new Teen Titans team debuted later in 1996.

What I had in mind was pre-Flashpoint Kara, who very briefly joined the Teen Titans in the late 2000s. Had the New 52 not happened, she would've split off a new Young Justice. New 52/Rebirth Kara has also not been a Titan. But she's a teenager, so she'd fit.

[Timber Wolf-By-Night]

GRADUATION DAY for example was a PERFECT EXAMPLE how it should be...

Oh, HELL no. GRADUATION DAY was an utter shitshow of a comic. It was an early example of what should be called "The Didio Paradigm": take a fan-favorite and well-regarded property, kick out the acclaimed and talented creative team behind it, put a different team on it, and give them the mandate to write characters out of character so that they will trash what was good about the property in-dialogue while creating a story/enemy designed to completely trash the property in-story, complete with a list of characters who will be killed, wrecked beyond salvage, or wrecked so they can be "salvaged"/"rebuilt" in a forced and inorganic way into what Editorial (Didio) wants them to be.

Seriously, GD sucked like a vacuum cleaner on super-steroids.

[king81992]

Oh, HELL no. GRADUATION DAY was an utter shitshow of a comic. It was an early example of what should be called "The Didio Paradigm": take a fan-favorite and well-regarded property, kick out the acclaimed and talented creative team behind it, put a different team on it, and give them the mandate to write characters out of character so that they will trash what was good about the property in-dialogue while creating a story/enemy designed to completely trash the property in-story, complete with a list of characters who will be killed, wrecked beyond salvage, or wrecked so they can be "salvaged"/"rebuilt" in a forced and inorganic way into what Editorial (Didio) wants them to be.

Seriously, GD sucked like a vacuum cleaner on super-steroids.

Graduation Day basically kicked off the 'Titans characters are cannon fodder' era that still continues to this day. Based on recent events, Cyborg might be the next to die.

[Masterff]

Oh, HELL no. GRADUATION DAY was an utter shitshow of a comic. It was an early example of what should be called "The Didio Paradigm": take a fan-favorite and well-regarded property, kick out the acclaimed and talented creative team behind it, put a different team on it, and give them the mandate to write characters out of character so that they will trash what was good about the property in-dialogue while creating a story/enemy designed to completely trash the property in-story, complete with a list of characters who will be killed, wrecked beyond salvage, or wrecked so they can be "salvaged"/"rebuilt" in a forced and inorganic way into what Editorial (Didio) wants them to be.

Seriously, GD sucked like a vacuum cleaner on super-steroids.

Actually GRADUATION DAY was perfect:
-Letting Superboy,Bart Allen,Cassandra grow up and become member of a well known Superhero Team
-Cyborg, Dick showing to the League that they have no right to say what the TT should do
-I also think that Johns Superboy,Kid Flash,Cassandra Sandsmark are much better than the YJ Versions...

I have to say that Johns Run was my favorite Titans Run...much better than the current Titans who are commanded around by the JL etc.