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  1. #1
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    Default Is Strucker a nazi?

    Or a monarchist aristocrat, willing to commit war crimes in ww2 and terrorism today, for the sake of his vision for a "better" world? I don't think Marvel has been consistent on that.

  2. #2
    Extraordinary Member Mike_Murdock's Avatar
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    He was a Prussian aristocrat who fought for the Wehrmacht in World War II when it meant working for Germany controlled and led by the Nazi party.
    Matt Murdock's cooler twin brother

    I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake!
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  3. #3
    Boisterously Confused
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    Quote Originally Posted by williamtheday View Post
    Or a monarchist aristocrat, willing to commit war crimes in ww2 and terrorism today, for the sake of his vision for a "better" world? I don't think Marvel has been consistent on that.
    That's a tough one. The Nazi's were born as Germany's take on fascism, and fascism tends to be collectivist. Fascists believe something about themselves or their culture is superior to others, but (at least claim) to put the interests of their society before themselves. They bow to an autocratic state, headed by a dictator, believing the state reflects their qualities and priorities, and see their commitment to the whole as one of the things that makes their race or society superior.

    I think that both Baron von Strucker and Baron Zemo are less about the Aryan race as superior beings, and more about themselves as superior beings. They definitely don't see themselves as part of something more important than themselves. If anything, I'd say both Barons are closer to Ayn Rand's definition of an objectivist.

  4. #4

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    He’s certainly pro-Aryan judging by the twins. But he’s also part of a secret cabal made up of monsters and occultists. And there’s the sex parties to factor in. I would say that he was a Nazi. But right around the time that he met Candra, he became your run of the mill power hungry opportunists. It would be hard to grow up where he did and not have some of that supremacist philosophy rub off. He definitely throws the word mongrel around when not referencing canines.
    Last edited by Michael Watkins; 05-10-2020 at 11:52 AM.

  5. #5
    Better than YOU! Alan2099's Avatar
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    He worked for the Nazis as a high ranking Nazi commanding other Nazis.

    I'd say that's a big "yes."

    Or a monarchist aristocrat, willing to commit war crimes in ww2 and terrorism today, for the sake of his vision for a "better" world? I don't think Marvel has been consistent on that.
    These aren't necessarily two different things.

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan2099 View Post
    He worked for the Nazis as a high ranking Nazi commanding other Nazis.

    I'd say that's a big "yes."
    .
    That’s like saying that Clint Barton is a circus performer.

  7. #7
    Extraordinary Member JudicatorPrime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Watkins View Post
    That’s like saying that Clint Barton is a circus performer.
    But Clint Barton was a circus performer. And Strucker was a Nazi. No need for face-saving nuance here. Call a spade a spade.

    Is Strucker still a Nazi? As someone who was befriended by a man that served in Hitler's army during WWII, I can honestly say that people do change. But it doesn't mean that we have to wash their past as if it was an adjacent reality.
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudicatorPrime View Post
    Is Strucker still a Nazi? As someone who was befriended by a man that served in Hitler's army during WWII, I can honestly say that people do change. But it doesn't mean that we have to wash their past as if it was an adjacent reality.
    Being in the Wehrmacht doesn't mean one was a Nazi. In Marvel 616, Strucker was most definitely a Nazi. Now? I think he wants power, but he's not like Red Skull in trying to still push Nazism.

  9. #9
    Original CBR member Jabare's Avatar
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    Red Skull, Warrior Woman, Baron Heinrich Zemo, Baron Strucker and Baron Blood are all Nazis
    The J-man

    I post via my phone a lot, therefore I make the occasional grammatical error. Not an excuse just forewarning you. Feel free to call me out I won't mind.

  10. #10
    Better than YOU! Alan2099's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davew128 View Post
    Being in the Wehrmacht doesn't mean one was a Nazi.
    I'm going to disagree. Being in the Nazi armed forces makes you very much a Nazi.

  11. #11
    Slayer of The Irrational charliehustle415's Avatar
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    According to the MCU Hydra and its ilk were never Nazi; that being said, yes he was a Nazi (who should get punched on sight).

  12. #12
    Extraordinary Member JudicatorPrime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davew128 View Post
    Being in the Wehrmacht doesn't mean one was a Nazi.
    Are we seriously promoting the myth of the "clean" Wehrmacht now? They were the political military wing of Hitler's (Röhm's really) grand design. There may have been some conscripts, but as a whole they represented the Nazi fighting force. Let's not split hairs over the obvious.

    In any event, my friend assured me that he was, indeed, a Nazi soldier in his youth. He told me these things in part because I had overheard an argument to that effect between him and his step-daughter, whom I was dating at the time. She felt that he needed to be open and honest with me about his past. He obliged...eventually. I appreciated the candor and took him at his word.

  13. #13
    Extraordinary Member Mike_Murdock's Avatar
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    I would also say that Strucker wasn't a conscript. He was an officer and a high level one at that. I think an analogy could be Rommel, but, either way, Strucker willingly joined a high level position of Nazi-ruled Germany.
    Matt Murdock's cooler twin brother

    I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake!
    Thomas More - A Man for All Seasons

    Interested in reading Daredevil? Not sure what to read next? Why not check out the Daredevil Book Club for some ideas?

  14. #14
    Fantastic Member Grapeweasel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by charliehustle415 View Post
    According to the MCU Hydra and its ilk were never Nazi; that being said, yes he was a Nazi (who should get punched on sight).
    That's only so you can sell the movie in Germany.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeweasel View Post
    That's only so you can sell the movie in Germany.
    That, and in fairness it's probably a good thing to shy away overall, given current sensibilities. Sadly, in the real world, no Nazi was ever punched in the face by Captain America

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