Celebrating X-Motherhood

[yogaflame]

But we're getting away from my point! It's this association of parenthood with "fogeyism". I'm just kind of tired of the media and people who consume media associating marriage, parenthood and just being over the age of 25 as being "old".

I grow many plants. Consider lettuce, for example. It starts as a seed, and germinates and grows more leaves over time. Then it changes it's pattern of growth, and starts to make a flower instead. It has gone to seed. It becomes increasingly bitter, dries up, and dies. The seeds will propagate the next generation.

So yes, having children changes something in an organism.

[yogaflame]

Jubilee is the only respectful one deserving of the title "Mother".

Mystique and Destiny did the work too, but well, they are who they are. Jubes is off to a fantastic, admirable start, but Raven and Irene put in yearssss. They deserve the title too, even if they have had ups and downs with Rogue over the years. No mother is perfect.

[coveredinbees]

I grow many plants. Consider lettuce, for example. It starts as a seed, and germinates and grows more leaves over time. Then it changes it's pattern of growth, and starts to make a flower instead. It has gone to seed. It becomes increasingly bitter, dries up, and dies. The seeds will propagate the next generation.

So yes, having children changes something in an organism.

I don't understand. Will you please clarify? I don't feel like lettuce!

[Ricochet Rita]

Moira (as adoptive mother of Rahne, since her story with Proteus is sad and awful) and Shan (as adoptive mother of her own siblings) are my favorite.

[salarta]

I was kinda surprised by Lorna's case on the first page, given it's so new and that's basically all we know about Lorna's mom (and Lorna's life before she met the X-Men in general). Glad to see it though.

Oh please, there's been plenty of examples in fiction (and frankly, real life) where pregnancy and motherhood haven't slowed a badass down.



(And that's not counting the scene AFTER giving birth, shooting her way out of a siege with baby in one arm, and firing that cannon from the hip with the other).

The problem IS NOT THE CONCEPT. It's either writers and editorial of the same mind as you who just dismiss it as something that can't be done out of hand, or they're just plain incapable of executing it. But good writing (and an editorial staff that will actually allow them to upset the Status Quo in such a fashion) WILL make it work.

I saw this while skimming through the thread, and I'd like to add (if someone else hasn't already said it and I missed it) that I felt Wynonna Earp did amazing with pregnancy in season 2 and serves as an excellent example of how pregnancy doesn't "have" to hold a female character back. It can lead to a lot of fun, funny, and badass moments you wouldn't otherwise get to see.

Sadly... I don't think current Marvel is really capable of pulling this off. The concept can bring amazing things but it takes a company that's willing to put in serious effort same as the Wynonna Earp show did for their season 2. That show could've said "Oh, our star is pregnant, we gotta wait a year or write her out of the season or recast the role." They didn't do that; they made an effort and it paid off. I think that kind of effort is too much for at least publishing side Marvel.

[AppleJ]

I was kinda surprised by Lorna's case on the first page, given it's so new and that's basically all we know about Lorna's mom (and Lorna's life before she met the X-Men in general). Glad to see it though.



I saw this while skimming through the thread, and I'd like to add (if someone else hasn't already said it and I missed it) that I felt Wynonna Earp did amazing with pregnancy in season 2 and serves as an excellent example of how pregnancy doesn't "have" to hold a female character back. It can lead to a lot of fun, funny, and badass moments you wouldn't otherwise get to see.

Sadly... I don't think current Marvel is really capable of pulling this off. The concept can bring amazing things but it takes a company that's willing to put in serious effort same as the Wynonna Earp show did for their season 2. That show could've said "Oh, our star is pregnant, we gotta wait a year or write her out of the season or recast the role." They didn't do that; they made an effort and it paid off. I think that kind of effort is too much for at least publishing side Marvel.

Yes! I really wish Marvel could get it together on this. Pregnancy and parenthood shouldn't hold any character back, period. How many mothers IRL aren't holding down a job on top of parenting? Seriously? Tell me there are no mothers that are doctors, EMTs, police, firefighters, CEOs, lawyers, military, etc that have very involved, maybe even dangerous careers and still make it work? Tell me partners, nannies, and other caretakers don't exist and all Moms spend 24/7 "buried in diapers" and exhausted at home. That's an pretty old-fashioned concept.

I love the found families and unconventional families in X-Men. I do! Jubilee is the best Mom and something I never knew I even wanted for her as a character. I'm glad for all the panel time she has been given. Angel and Beak with their crazy brood are precious. The Summers-Grey lineage is frankly a bit out of control, but think how much it has enriched X-Men stories over the years?

And you know what, X-Men comics aren't just for the "teen boy" demographic. They never have been. They should include every demographic. The more the merrier.

And parenthood definitely isn't and shouldn't be for every character, probably not even for MOST characters. But there's a serious lack of conventional family representation and parenthood in X-Men, especially considering the number of characters who realistically should be hitting their early/mid 30's and also this whole nation-building mindset on Krakoa. Anyway, it annoys me severely.

X-Moms not mentioned so far: Layla Miller, Meggan, and Smasher. All in fairly conventional partnerships, but not getting much panel time. Smasher at least was shown recently in New Mutants and hey, she wasn't sitting at home with the baby! She was out with Sam, doing her job. What do you know! It's like she's a whole person with many dimensions or something. Crazy!

[Ambaryerno]

Yes! I really wish Marvel could get it together on this. Pregnancy and parenthood shouldn't hold any character back, period. How many mothers IRL aren't holding down a job on top of parenting? Seriously? Tell me there are no mothers that are doctors, EMTs, police, firefighters, CEOs, lawyers, military, etc that have very involved, maybe even dangerous careers and still make it work? Tell me partners, nannies, and other caretakers don't exist and all Moms spend 24/7 "buried in diapers" and exhausted at home. That's an pretty old-fashioned concept.

I love the found families and unconventional families in X-Men. I do! Jubilee is the best Mom and something I never knew I even wanted for her as a character. I'm glad for all the panel time she has been given. Angel and Beak with their crazy brood are precious. The Summers-Grey lineage is frankly a bit out of control, but think how much it has enriched X-Men stories over the years?

And you know what, X-Men comics aren't just for the "teen boy" demographic. They never have been. They should include every demographic. The more the merrier.

And parenthood definitely isn't and shouldn't be for every character, probably not even for MOST characters. But there's a serious lack of conventional family representation and parenthood in X-Men, especially considering the number of characters who realistically should be hitting their early/mid 30's and also this whole nation-building mindset on Krakoa. Anyway, it annoys me severely.

X-Moms not mentioned so far: Layla Miller, Meggan, and Smasher. All in fairly conventional partnerships, but not getting much panel time. Smasher at least was shown recently in New Mutants and hey, she wasn't sitting at home with the baby! She was out with Sam, doing her job. What do you know! It's like she's a whole person with many dimensions or something. Crazy!

Unfortunately, there's three big problems/barriers:

The first and most damning is ultimately the fact that Marvel simply doesn't want characters to evolve or change, thus why so many characters have resolved their personal issues only to get them reset again. And having characters become parents WILL change them, there's no getting around it. It doesn't matter that when written well, the change can be a good thing. They just don't want the characters to deviate from some narrowly-defined status quo. ESPECIALLY if it's the Claremont/Byrne/Lee era cast. Peripheral characters have a better shot of seeing that development, but God forbid the CBLs drift too far from their 80s and 90s incarnations.

The second is the Sliding Time Scale, the single largest contributing factor to point one. Characters having children makes if much more difficult to maintain. It's already ridiculous that it's taken Franklin Richards something like 50 years to become a teenager, and that's WITH the fact that he was introduced before the STS was fully implemented. And it will happen with every other child character, leading to DECADES of that kid as a baby.

The third is Marvel Editorial's obsession with Moonlighting Syndrome, and the idea it's impossible to have healthy and stable relationships that are interesting (even though many genre stories have since shown it's COMPLETELY possible to do so with strong writing). Which means a VERY strong probability that if a character DOES get knocked up, she'll at some point go through a messily-contrived breakup driven deals with Mephisto, Face-Heel Turns, telepathic manipulation, evil clones, or for no frelling reason whatsoever, leaving them with a deadbeat baby daddy (or mommy) which just ends up making the entire situation artificially toxic, exacerbated by having a child involved.

[Celestialbodies]

to be fair, you cant put that on him. His issue was written before the Red annual came out

Doesn't explain his characterization of Rachel throughout that run, unless up until Gold she couldn't scan for others within the next room. That's not even discussing his treatment of Storm and her continual beauty rest shots. Kitty's portrayal spoke for itself....

[yogaflame]

Unfortunately, there's three big problems/barriers:

The first and most damning is ultimately the fact that Marvel simply doesn't want characters to evolve or change, thus why so many characters have resolved their personal issues only to get them reset again. And having characters become parents WILL change them, there's no getting around it. It doesn't matter that when written well, the change can be a good thing. They just don't want the characters to deviate from some narrowly-defined status quo. ESPECIALLY if it's the Claremont/Byrne/Lee era cast. Peripheral characters have a better shot of seeing that development, but God forbid the CBLs drift too far from their 80s and 90s incarnations.

The second is the Sliding Time Scale, the single largest contributing factor to point one. Characters having children makes if much more difficult to maintain. It's already ridiculous that it's taken Franklin Richards something like 50 years to become a teenager, and that's WITH the fact that he was introduced before the STS was fully implemented. And it will happen with every other child character, leading to DECADES of that kid as a baby.

The third is Marvel Editorial's obsession with Moonlighting Syndrome, and the idea it's impossible to have healthy and stable relationships that are interesting (even though many genre stories have since shown it's COMPLETELY possible to do so with strong writing). Which means a VERY strong probability that if a character DOES get knocked up, she'll at some point go through a messily-contrived breakup driven deals with Mephisto, Face-Heel Turns, telepathic manipulation, evil clones, or for no frelling reason whatsoever, leaving them with a deadbeat baby daddy (or mommy) which just ends up making the entire situation artificially toxic, exacerbated by having a child involved.

Exactly. Thank you for proving my point.

If all of X-Men history up until Hickman is only about 10 years, we're talking 5-6 years of publication time equals one year of X-Men time, so a character would spend an entire 4-5 years of story just going through the pregnancy and delivery. Then a whole addition 5-6 years before the baby can even walk. That's a solid decade of stories just in that first phase of the child's arc. Not even in Claremont's time did he stretch it out like that. Maddie married Scott in 175, and had the baby in-between 200 and 201. That's right about two years of publication time. With the way arcs are centered around TPBs and the way writers are shuffled around, you could never pull that off these days. Besides, with the way writers are abusing the RP and butchering the cast every other story, no fetus would ever even make it to term....

[Havok83]

Exactly. Thank you for proving my point.

If all of X-Men history up until Hickman is only about 10 years, we're talking 5-6 years of publication time equals one year of X-Men time, so a character would spend an entire 4-5 years of story just going through the pregnancy and delivery. Then a whole addition 5-6 years before the baby can even walk. That's a solid decade of stories just in that first phase of the child's arc. Not even in Claremont's time did he stretch it out like that. Maddie married Scott in 175, and had the baby in-between 200 and 201. That's right about two years of publication time. With the way arcs are centered around TPBs and the way writers are shuffled around, you could never pull that off these days. Besides, with the way writers are abusing the RP and butchering the cast every other story, no fetus would ever even make it to term....

Maddie learned she was pregnant in the Asgardian Wars crossover so the time spent on the preganncy was much shorter (I think about a month or two in real time) between announcement and her birth in UXM 200

[salarta]

And you know what, X-Men comics aren't just for the "teen boy" demographic. They never have been. They should include every demographic. The more the merrier.

There's a LOT I can say on this, about the overlap of attitudes in comics and video games, mistaken assumptions, the kind of culture created and certain things that have happened. Going too deep into them may not be useful on here though. I'll just say these industries have a bad habit of fueling certain attitudes and beliefs, and they seriously need to rethink some things about how they operate and approach their creative possibilities. Doing things as they've always been done and doubling down on past mistakes doesn't lead to anything good.

And parenthood definitely isn't and shouldn't be for every character, probably not even for MOST characters. But there's a serious lack of conventional family representation and parenthood in X-Men, especially considering the number of characters who realistically should be hitting their early/mid 30's and also this whole nation-building mindset on Krakoa. Anyway, it annoys me severely.

X-Moms not mentioned so far: Layla Miller, Meggan, and Smasher. All in fairly conventional partnerships, but not getting much panel time. Smasher at least was shown recently in New Mutants and hey, she wasn't sitting at home with the baby! She was out with Sam, doing her job. What do you know! It's like she's a whole person with many dimensions or something. Crazy!

I think some characters are in a better position to be mothers than others. Lorna, for example (because I know her the best), would be a horrible choice for character to shift into motherhood. Marvel not utilizing her potential, not acknowledging her history, taking forever to do very basic things (or never doing them) with her, and tendency to use her as a promotion tool for other characters all mean any motherhood setup for her is bound to fail. Their subconscious (sometimes conscious and deliberate) tendency would be to disregard everything else about her and focus only on the baby, with Lorna treated as a nice baby maker/babysitter either to expand some other character's street cred or to set the baby up as a new character with far more respect given to it than Marvel's willing to give Lorna herself. Given enough proper use, she could be, but it would take time.

Other characters may not have such issues. If they've received fair use and good treatment across time, they may be in a better position to become mothers and have that motherhood mean something good.

[AdamFTF]

I saw this while skimming through the thread, and I'd like to add (if someone else hasn't already said it and I missed it) that I felt Wynonna Earp did amazing with pregnancy in season 2 and serves as an excellent example of how pregnancy doesn't "have" to hold a female character back. It can lead to a lot of fun, funny, and badass moments you wouldn't otherwise get to see.

Sadly... I don't think current Marvel is really capable of pulling this off. The concept can bring amazing things but it takes a company that's willing to put in serious effort same as the Wynonna Earp show did for their season 2. That show could've said "Oh, our star is pregnant, we gotta wait a year or write her out of the season or recast the role." They didn't do that; they made an effort and it paid off. I think that kind of effort is too much for at least publishing side Marvel.

The show I keep thinking of regarding badass parents is the new Ducktales cartoon, where their best character is a mother of three.
DellaDuck.jpg

A lot of the things listed as problems are things I see as problems for corporate superhero comics in general. The kind of things that I see as bugs but others seem to feel are features.