Wonder Woman and the Paternal Narrative

[Pinsir]

I came across this article today on my feed called Wonder Woman and the Paternal Narrative: the Rise of Wonder Woman, the Fall of Women, which discuses Narrative Paternalism and Brian Azzarello's run. The work was originally published in 2015 by Doctor Bifrost (A CBR poster, I believe), though I think it was republished recently on The Mary Sue recently so that may explain why a 5 year old article suddenly reappeared.

I'm not sure if this article was originally linked here before, but basically the thesis of this work is that Brian Azzarello's work introduces to the character a paternalistic narrative where the 'source' of Wonder Woman's heroism become attributed to her father (Zeus), where as before it was derived from her mother (Hippolyta). I agree with this thesis; that the Zeus daddy stuff stripped away stripped away an important element of her character and makes her more conforming with the rest of the superhero lot.

However, I contend that the author over emphasises Brian Azzarello's role in Wonder Woman's 'degeneration.' The author frequently cites Marston's vision of Wonder Woman and her world and contrasts it with Azzarello's, citing the later as failing to live up to Marston's philosophy, but...the vast majority of authors wouldn't live up to this expectation either. The idea that WW had 'lost track' of her feminist ideals first appeared in the 50's with Robert Kanigher's run. Even authors that are held in higher esteem by the WW community such as Perez and Rucka fail this test. So someone unaware of WW's broader history may read this article and come across thinking "Wonder Woman had a good run until this Azz guy blew it!"

[AmiMizuno]

In a sense, all of Wonder Woman was more about women coming together. Azz made the Amazons barbaric and unlikable. He took out all the Amazons being important. Diana learned more from Ares than her own sisters. The Amazons we rapist and baby killers. They hated Diana (at least the kids did) Azz's run was more about the patriarchal system than anything.

[CRaymond]

Bifrost is an outspoken CBR participant.

I don't think of gods as men and women. They're more like... fundamental forces of nature with the personalities of wild animals or children.

[Agent Z]

The idea that WW had 'lost track' of her feminist ideals first appeared in the 50's with Robert Kanigher's run.

Didn't Kanigher kill a proxy of Wonder Woman editor, Dorothy Woolfolk, in his run?

Even authors that are held in higher esteem by the WW community such as Perez and Rucka fail this test.

No they don't.

[kjn]

I came across this article today on my feed called Wonder Woman and the Paternal Narrative: the Rise of Wonder Woman, the Fall of Women, which discuses Narrative Paternalism and Brian Azzarello's run. The work was originally published in 2015 by Doctor Bifrost (A CBR poster, I believe), though I think it was republished recently on The Mary Sue recently so that may explain why a 5 year old article suddenly reappeared.

Yep, I read the original article a while back, and while I have had encountered the theory behind it before that, it lays it out very cogently, with plenty of examples.

However, I contend that the author over emphasises Brian Azzarello's role in Wonder Woman's 'degeneration.' The author frequently cites Marston's vision of Wonder Woman and her world and contrasts it with Azzarello's, citing the later as failing to live up to Marston's philosophy, but...the vast majority of authors wouldn't live up to this expectation either. The idea that WW had 'lost track' of her feminist ideals first appeared in the 50's with Robert Kanigher's run. Even authors that are held in higher esteem by the WW community such as Perez and Rucka fail this test. So someone unaware of WW's broader history may read this article and come across thinking "Wonder Woman had a good run until this Azz guy blew it!"

Arguably, even Marston failed to live up to Marston's ideals, in a wider sense. But I think you're reading something into the article that isn't there (and I note that the words "degeneration" or "lost track" doesn't appear in the article). Bifrost's thesis wasn't that Wonder Woman was feminist until Azzarello made her not-feminist. It was that Wonder Woman had removed itself from the paternal narrative, until that narrative was introduced by Azzarello.

And Bifrost is certainly correct in that narrative is so ubiquitous and so prevalent that once you have opened that door, it's very hard to close it. We have had Heracles as her father in Earth One, and all of the male gods in Dead Earth. The same is true of the Nastyzons.

Wonder Woman can still be a feminist figure without her original Amazon heritage, and DC certainly used her as the exceptional woman in its various teamups for a long time. But Azzarello made Diana into the exceptional woman in her origin as well.

[AmiMizuno]

The question is how far removed should you make her parental origin? I mean Azz removed all the amazons and the Gods were the only ones there.

[WonderScott]

Yeah, when I read the article originally I can recall that it’s not saying Wonder Woman was perfect in other eras and with other creators, but that the Zeus paternity was a fundamental change to the character that fundamentally changes her by design.

[AmiMizuno]

That's the issue. Zeus kind of makes it looks like she didn't earn the title. Rucka makes up for it. But I never liked the idea that Diana had her powers already. That she won it in the competition. At least in the rebirth, the Amazons are more important than the gods I just don't like the idea that she needs Zeus to explain her powers.

[Pinsir]

That's the issue. Zeus kind of makes it looks like she didn't earn the title. Rucka makes up for it. But I never liked the idea that Diana had her powers already. That she won it in the competition. At least in the rebirth, the Amazons are more important than the gods I just don't like the idea that she needs Zeus to explain her powers.

The clay birth origin story does seem to imply that Wonder Woman's superior abilities are the result of divine influence though. In the original stories Wonder Woman is so far and above the other Amazons that its difficult to attribute her abilities solely to training. So I've never viewed WW as being a 'self-made' hero, that won her title simply because she was the best.

Yeah, when I read the article originally I can recall that it’s not saying Wonder Woman was perfect in other eras and with other creators, but that the Zeus paternity was a fundamental change to the character that fundamentally changes her by design.

I'm not sure the author even mentions other WW eras though, often leading to Bifrost basically saying, 'Marston good, Azz bad.' For example the author brings up the plot point the Amazons being turned into a snake is reducing the role of women in the title and is a broader trend of anti-female sentiment in the book, but removing the Amazons is a trope in WW comics. It first happened during the I-Ching era, and then it happened during Messner-Loebs run and then again in the aftermath of the O.M.A.C. invasion at the end of Vol. 2. Rucka also did the same thing when he returned to the title during Rebirth (which was after this article was published). This is a plot device, used to raise tension and remove a character from their supportive structure.

[AmiMizuno]

Not really since all the Amazons were made from clay. There are even children amazons in Marston's. Diana and the other Amazons do say it's possible from training. Only one other Amazon is close to Diana Mala. Dc has never had that. How Diana could have almost lost. Mala could have also won. We saw that in Marston's. A lot of what we have is no one on the Island is near Diana's level.

[Phoenixx9]

Not really since all the Amazons were made from clay. There are even children amazons in Marston's. Diana and the other Amazons do say it's possible from training. Only one other Amazon is close to Diana Mala. Dc has never had that. How Diana could have almost lost. Mala could have also won. We saw that in Marston's. A lot of what we have is no one on the Island is near Diana's level.

Well, there are a few Amazons near Diana levels/capabilities: Mala, Nubia, Artemis/Orana and Donna, just to name a few.

[Doctor Bifrost]

It's always nice to be recognized, either in agreement or disagreement.

I'd like to believe that I did a good job of expressing myself in my article, so I'm not going to defend it here. But I will say it was never a matter of "Marston Good/Azzarello Bad." I think Marston made good choices and bad choices. (I could say the same about Azzarello.) But I think Marston brilliantly, and appropriately, subverted the near-ubiquitous Paternal Narrative by replacing it with a (rare!) Maternal Narrative, and I describe why I thought that was a good thing. And how the Daughter of Zeus origin is a retreat to the Paternal Narrative, and why I thought that wasn't a good thing.

Admittedly I went into a little more detail than that...

***

I've always liked young superpowered Diana on Paradise Island, but I realize that it makes the contest something of a farce. So here's my head canon: Wanting to compete fairly, Diana goes to Magala before the contest and asks her to cast a spell that will remove Diana's powers and store them in an urn. (Grecian, of course!) This is a difficult spell, but with Diana's complete cooperation Magala manages it.

Magala points out that Diana has never trained without her powers, so Diana will have to improvise and figure out how to do things as a "normal Amazon" during the contest. But Diana is up for the challenge.

We see her struggling with this problem while she competes in the contest. We see her make mistakes as she tries to do things in the way she's used to, but without her powers to back up those actions. And, of course, we see her - with much difficulty - win. Fairly.

She goes back to Magala and has her powers restored. (And what Magala does with the few drops of power she removed from the urn - well, that's a story for another day.)

[CRaymond]

I've always liked young superpowered Diana on Paradise Island, but I realize that it makes the contest something of a farce. So here's my head canon: Wanting to compete fairly, Diana goes to Magala before the contest and asks her to cast a spell that will remove Diana's powers and store them in an urn. (Grecian, of course!) This is a difficult spell, but with Diana's complete cooperation Magala manages it.

Using Fairy Tales and folklore is ENTIRELY correct for imagineering Wonder Woman's backstory!

(And what Magala does with the few drops of power she removed from the urn - well, that's a story for another day.)

Maybe?

[Zahina]

It's always nice to be recognized, either in agreement or disagreement.

I'd like to believe that I did a good job of expressing myself in my article, so I'm not going to defend it here. But I will say it was never a matter of "Marston Good/Azzarello Bad." I think Marston made good choices and bad choices. (I could say the same about Azzarello.) But I think Marston brilliantly, and appropriately, subverted the near-ubiquitous Paternal Narrative by replacing it with a (rare!) Maternal Narrative, and I describe why I thought that was a good thing. And how the Daughter of Zeus origin is a retreat to the Paternal Narrative, and why I thought that wasn't a good thing.

Admittedly I went into a little more detail than that...

***

I've always liked young superpowered Diana on Paradise Island, but I realize that it makes the contest something of a farce. So here's my head canon: Wanting to compete fairly, Diana goes to Magala before the contest and asks her to cast a spell that will remove Diana's powers and store them in an urn. (Grecian, of course!) This is a difficult spell, but with Diana's complete cooperation Magala manages it.

Magala points out that Diana has never trained without her powers, so Diana will have to improvise and figure out how to do things as a "normal Amazon" during the contest. But Diana is up for the challenge.

We see her struggling with this problem while she competes in the contest. We see her make mistakes as she tries to do things in the way she's used to, but without her powers to back up those actions. And, of course, we see her - with much difficulty - win. Fairly.

She goes back to Magala and has her powers restored. (And what Magala does with the few drops of power she removed from the urn - well, that's a story for another day.)

How about bringing back the Golden Age Amazon training powers to make the contest fair for all the Amazons?

[Phoenixx9]

It's always nice to be recognized, either in agreement or disagreement.

I'd like to believe that I did a good job of expressing myself in my article, so I'm not going to defend it here. But I will say it was never a matter of "Marston Good/Azzarello Bad." I think Marston made good choices and bad choices. (I could say the same about Azzarello.) But I think Marston brilliantly, and appropriately, subverted the near-ubiquitous Paternal Narrative by replacing it with a (rare!) Maternal Narrative, and I describe why I thought that was a good thing. And how the Daughter of Zeus origin is a retreat to the Paternal Narrative, and why I thought that wasn't a good thing.

Admittedly I went into a little more detail than that...

***

I've always liked young superpowered Diana on Paradise Island, but I realize that it makes the contest something of a farce. So here's my head canon: Wanting to compete fairly, Diana goes to Magala before the contest and asks her to cast a spell that will remove Diana's powers and store them in an urn. (Grecian, of course!) This is a difficult spell, but with Diana's complete cooperation Magala manages it.

Magala points out that Diana has never trained without her powers, so Diana will have to improvise and figure out how to do things as a "normal Amazon" during the contest. But Diana is up for the challenge.

We see her struggling with this problem while she competes in the contest. We see her make mistakes as she tries to do things in the way she's used to, but without her powers to back up those actions. And, of course, we see her - with much difficulty - win. Fairly.

She goes back to Magala and has her powers restored. (And what Magala does with the few drops of power she removed from the urn - well, that's a story for another day.)

GREAT idea!! I love it!

Using Fairy Tales and folklore is ENTIRELY correct for imagineering Wonder Woman's backstory!





Maybe?

That is EXACTLY what I was thinking as well. You beat me to it.