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  1. #106

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    Quote Originally Posted by Orbus View Post
    I'm sure that The Ultimates was just as much a selling point for studios. Clearly parts of Avengers 2012 is inspired by The Ultimates, it often felt like the movie was an Ultimates one but the characters personalities taken from the classic versions. Still I think part of that was seeing that work in Bendis' version.

    In fact if they do another Avengers movie I actually would like to see it take inspiration for its roster from New Avengers. I'd love for Spider-Man to officially join the team and given that a lot of X-Men fans don't like Logan dominating their movies it'd be cool to have him in The Avengers instead in costume for the first time and with a bunch of other solo stars he'll play off them rather than overshadow them like he often did in the X movies. I'd love for acknowledgement of the Netflix series with Luke Cage as a member but I imagine that's unlikely and we'd get Black Panther instead alongside Sam Wilson and Carol Danvers
    Actually, Millar reinvented the Avengers by using a cinematic narrative style, instead of the classic comic book style, but it was just a creative thing. Back in 2002, nobody actually thought that the Avengers would be actual cinematic material. The MCU would not be started until years later, and even then the initial brainstorming (before settling for the Phase 1 films) suggested properties with little or no relation to the Ultimate line, such as Ant-Man, Shang-Chi, Luke Cage, Runaways (if I remember fine), etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zero Hunter View Post
    I stand by what I have always said about his run. It was lazy. He was given ALL the toys to play with like no other writer ever had in the history of Marvel. ANYONE could have sold the same numbers he did with all the A++++ characters he was allowed to use. He wanted Wolverine and Spider Man he got them. Character had a movie coming up he grabbed that character for his team. Bendis is the ultimate opportunist when it comes to grabbing on to whats hot.
    That didn't happen from out of the blue. Bendis first wrote "Ultimate Spider-Man", a comic set in an alternate universe, so if he failed (as Chapter One failed before it) it would have been canceled and nobody would had noticed. But it did not fail, and instead it outsold the main Spider-Man comics. So yes, of course that he was promoted to write the mainstream universe comics as well. But "hot"... the Avengers were not "hot" back then, they were a cult classic at best, a minor and irrelevant comic at worst (just check if Chuck Austen's Avengers were "hot"). It was Millar with the Ultimates and Bendis with his run, who made the Avengers hot. Then the film based on the Ultimates made the Avengers real-world hot, and the rest, as they say, is history.

  2. #107
    Kinky Lil' Canine Snoop Dogg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ???
    The world has changed, and so have I.

  3. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultimate Captain America View Post
    Then the film based on the Ultimates made the Avengers real-world hot, and the rest, as they say, is history.
    I wouldn't call the MCU Avengers based on the Ultimates, they shared some ideas but overall it's a faithful adaption to the 616 Avengers. The Ultimates themselves recycled ideas from the Heroes Reborn Avengers. For example, it was in HR where Stark got his trademark goatee, the Falcon being a soldier before he became a super-hero, and SHIELD creating the Avengers.

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  5. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultimate Captain America View Post
    Pages aren't showing up.

  6. #111

  7. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    I wouldn't call the MCU Avengers based on the Ultimates, they shared some ideas but overall it's a faithful adaption to the 616 Avengers. The Ultimates themselves recycled ideas from the Heroes Reborn Avengers. For example, it was in HR where Stark got his trademark goatee, the Falcon being a soldier before he became a super-hero, and SHIELD creating the Avengers.
    Considering the whole Hulk being a failed attempt at re-creating the super soldier formula..

    .. and the whole Marvel Brain Trust/Creative Committee helping to steer things..

    .. as well as the other examples..

    Yeah, I'd say it owed a large part of it to the Ultimate Universe. Besides, Falcon wasn't in the first Avengers so you can't count that.

  8. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by charliehustle415 View Post
    Excellent write up.

    I myself never had any attachment to the Avenger's pre-Bendis but I don't think his era ended with ANAD for me it ended with Secret Wars.

    What Marvel did afterwards is on everyone but Bendis; I think if you were to read Disassembled all the way up to Secret Wars it makes for an ultimate Saga that can rival most world religions.

    It is literally the end of one age that leads directly to the rebirth of another. Bendis completely deconstructed the Avengers and when 9/11 hit Millar completely tore it asunder and there was no going back. Hickman came along and took the pieces and used the Avengers as an analogue of American hubris of "knowing better" Reed & Co. thought they knew better which led to the complete destruction of the multiverse.

    It ended with the compete rebirth of the universe where everyone had a chance to reinvent themselves; including the one time God: Dr. Doom.

    It began acknowledging 9/11 with the hyper-cynicism of Bush era America and then ends with the aspirational heights of Obama era America.

    Secret Wars ended in 2015 so the election didn't happen and I think ANAD was a response to the 2016 election.

    Also I think Nick Fury was sidelined because he was the analogue of the American government that didn't head the Al-Qaeda warnings. Fury failed in protecting the world numerous times from Bendis' Secret War all the way to Secret Invasion (Bendis loves his Secrets).
    Good reflection on Nick Fury there. Iím glad you appreciate the bigger picture being presented with what Bendis puts into that period.

  9. #114
    Better than YOU! Alan2099's Avatar
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    Also I think Nick Fury was sidelined because he was the analogue of the American government that didn't head the Al-Qaeda warnings. Fury failed in protecting the world numerous times from Bendis' Secret War all the way to Secret Invasion (Bendis loves his Secrets).
    Bendis said in one interview that he wanted to take Nick Fury off the table because there were too many stories where Nick Fury would show up with a job for the heroes to do.

    ... and then Bendis made SHIELD more prominent that it had ever been before.

  10. #115
    Mighty Member your_name_here's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan2099 View Post
    Bendis said in one interview that he wanted to take Nick Fury off the table because there were too many stories where Nick Fury would show up with a job for the heroes to do.

    ... and then Bendis made SHIELD more prominent that it had ever been before.
    But simultaneously made them all new again with a near director. That creates interests, adds a new element to SHIELD again and allows room to play around.

  11. #116
    Mighty Member your_name_here's Avatar
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    Plus, if Bendisí hadnít taken Fury off the board, we would never have got Hickmans Secret Warriors, which is one of the best Fury stories ever told.

  12. #117

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan2099 View Post
    Bendis said in one interview that he wanted to take Nick Fury off the table because there were too many stories where Nick Fury would show up with a job for the heroes to do.

    ... and then Bendis made SHIELD more prominent that it had ever been before.

  13. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sutekh View Post
    I read somewhere that he wanted someone to 'be the Thor' of the team, but couldn't get the actual Thor.

    And yeah, his handling of mental illness, female characters, and, I dunno, humans? seems somewhere between disrespectful and 'what planet do you live on, that people act like this?'
    There are two things Bendis doesn't do well: 1. Secret Identities and 2. Depiction of mental illness (read his Moon Knight to get a idea).

  14. #119

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan2099 View Post
    Bendis said in one interview that he wanted to take Nick Fury off the table because there were too many stories where Nick Fury would show up with a job for the heroes to do.

    ... and then Bendis made SHIELD more prominent that it had ever been before.
    I was always wondering why we had Secret War

    Quote Originally Posted by your_name_here View Post
    Plus, if Bendis’ hadn’t taken Fury off the board, we would never have got Hickmans Secret Warriors, which is one of the best Fury stories ever told.
    This kind answers why he was taken off the board because if I remember correctly Hickman was a protege of Bendis I can imagine Hickman asking him to take Fury off the board for this run. Also didn't Bendis & Hickman write the first arc of Secret Warrios which gives it some credence

  15. #120
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by your_name_here View Post
    But simultaneously made them all new again with a near director. That creates interests, adds a new element to SHIELD again and allows room to play around.
    And Maria Hill proceeded to be probably the worst Director of SHIELD ever. The point where the heroes really started to distrust SHIELD or stop taking them seriously started when Hill took over.
    Quote Originally Posted by charliehustle415 View Post
    This kind answers why he was taken off the board because if I remember correctly Hickman was a protege of Bendis I can imagine Hickman asking him to take Fury off the board for this run. Also didn't Bendis & Hickman write the first arc of Secret Warrios which gives it some credence
    Bendis did the stuff with Fury well before Hickman started writing for Marvel, though, so I'm not sure that's it.

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