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  1. #121
    see beauty in all things. charliehustle415's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    And Maria Hill proceeded to be probably the worst Director of SHIELD ever. The point where the heroes really started to distrust SHIELD or stop taking them seriously started when Hill took over.

    Bendis did the stuff with Fury well before Hickman started writing for Marvel, though, so I'm not sure that's it.
    I think having a distrustful government agency was a sign of the times; but it did make for compelling storytelling. It's weird to go back and read old books where SHIELD is helping the heroes, in the back of my head I can't stop thinking of the nefarious stuff they're up to.

    I understand that Bendis took Fury off the board before Hickman, but he could have kept him off the board for Hickman - but that's pure speculation on my part.

    But they do seem to cooperate on a lot of things. Hickman's Avengers began with Bendis' credo of "Go Bigger"

  2. #122
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by charliehustle415 View Post
    I think having a distrustful government agency was a sign of the times; but it did make for compelling storytelling. It's weird to go back and read old books where SHIELD is helping the heroes, in the back of my head I can't stop thinking of the nefarious stuff they're up to.
    And it did give us the character everyone loves to hate...Maria Hill .
    But they do seem to cooperate on a lot of things. Hickman's Avengers began with Bendis' credo of "Go Bigger"
    Just in a more Legion way then a purely "A-lister" way...

  3. #123
    see beauty in all things. charliehustle415's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    And it did give us the character everyone loves to hate...Maria Hill .

    Just in a more Legion way then a purely "A-lister" way...
    Yeah Hill was a great foil, I wonder if the MCU will bring her to the forefront.

  4. #124
    Uncanny Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by charliehustle415 View Post
    I was always wondering why we had Secret War



    This kind answers why he was taken off the board because if I remember correctly Hickman was a protege of Bendis I can imagine Hickman asking him to take Fury off the board for this run. Also didn't Bendis & Hickman write the first arc of Secret Warrios which gives it some credence
    I think Secret War and taking Fury off the board, more than anything else, was to help set up Civil War.

    It's entirely possible with Fury running things Civil War could have been avoided entirely, or at least severely neutered. Fury and Cap have had their problems, but I think they obviously do like and respect each other. He definately would have avoided making the mistakes Hill made.

  5. #125
    see beauty in all things. charliehustle415's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    I think Secret War and taking Fury off the board, more than anything else, was to help set up Civil War.

    It's entirely possible with Fury running things Civil War could have been avoided entirely, or at least severely neutered. Fury and Cap have had their problems, but I think they obviously do like and respect each other. He definately would have avoided making the mistakes Hill made.
    Ohhh, I never even thought about that!

    You're totally right Fury would not have let it get that out of hand. Fury would have shut down Stark in a heart beat

  6. #126
    Mighty Member your_name_here's Avatar
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    I thought taking Fury off board was all a part of Secret Invasion? I seem to remember being mentioned a lot during the build up to the event and possibly in the tie ins.

    Maria Hill was also pretty great. I liked that she didn’t like the heroes and there was no trust either side. I liked, despite her distrust, she wasn’t naÔve. She proved herself in Secret Invasion & Dark Reign.

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by your_name_here View Post
    I thought taking Fury off board was all a part of Secret Invasion? I seem to remember being mentioned a lot during the build up to the event and possibly in the tie ins.

    Maria Hill was also pretty great. I liked that she didn’t like the heroes and there was no trust either side. I liked, despite her distrust, she wasn’t naÔve. She proved herself in Secret Invasion & Dark Reign.
    She's made some very bad decisions, especially when Millar wrote her. Her "meeting" with Cap to recruit him was more like him being interviewed with a super-villain looking for an excuse to shoot him than a competent SHIELD commander.

  8. #128
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by charliehustle415 View Post
    Yeah Hill was a great foil, I wonder if the MCU will bring her to the forefront.
    Probably not to the extent of the comics because MCU Hill is nowhere near the person comic Hill is. She's actually likeable .
    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    It's entirely possible with Fury running things Civil War could have been avoided entirely, or at least severely neutered. Fury and Cap have had their problems, but I think they obviously do like and respect each other. He definately would have avoided making the mistakes Hill made.
    I could see Fury trying to wash his hands of the registration act, or at least not be as hardcore about enforcing it as Hill and Stark were.
    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    She's made some very bad decisions, especially when Millar wrote her. Her "meeting" with Cap to recruit him was more like him being interviewed with a super-villain looking for an excuse to shoot him than a competent SHIELD commander.
    Yeah, for every "good" moment Hill has there are 10x more where she screws up or makes everything worse.

  9. #129
    Uncanny Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by your_name_here View Post
    I thought taking Fury off board was all a part of Secret Invasion? I seem to remember being mentioned a lot during the build up to the event and possibly in the tie ins.

    Maria Hill was also pretty great. I liked that she didn’t like the heroes and there was no trust either side. I liked, despite her distrust, she wasn’t naÔve. She proved herself in Secret Invasion & Dark Reign.
    Civil War, Secret Invasion and Dark Reign are all sort of connected in a sense. All that stuff probably needed Fury off the board to really work the way they wanted.

    As for Hill.. I hated her guts at the time. But in hindsight she really helped me get emotionally invested in the stories. And post Dark Reign and onward, she grew on me.

  10. #130
    Aged Howler tliscord's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by your_name_here View Post
    Plus, if Bendisí hadnít taken Fury off the board, we would never have got Hickmans Secret Warriors, which is one of the best Fury stories ever told.
    This I agree with!

    The whole Fury arc appealed to me during his run, adding Hill in as Director another. Hickman, Brubaker, and Fraction all used various components extremely well, be it Secret Warriors, Winter Soldier, or even Hillís role in Most Wanted .... and then they chained him to the moon.

    I agree with most everyone here, up through Seige was a positive, but his next few years writing both Avengers and New, not so much. Couldíve skipped over everything to the end when Janet returns.

    Couldnít forgive him for his Pym portrayal, but thatís another story.

    As talented as Bendis is, he was exceedingly fortunate to have been surrounded by the likes of Hickman, Brubaker, and Fraction.

  11. #131
    Aged Howler tliscord's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    And Maria Hill proceeded to be probably the worst Director of SHIELD ever. The point where the heroes really started to distrust SHIELD or stop taking them seriously started when Hill took over.

    Bendis did the stuff with Fury well before Hickman started writing for Marvel, though, so I'm not sure that's it.
    I loved the newness and edginess of Hill, especially extracting the Genosha info from Peter the way she did. Her leadership also made it a bit more seamless as to how H.A.M.M.E.R. could tumble out of Secret Invasion as easily as it did. Both Hill and StarkíS contrasting leadership from Furyís certainly gave Osborn enough cred among the rank and file of SHIELD to pull it off.

    I wanted to say Bendis recruited Hickman? Iím not sure if this.

  12. #132
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    Yeah kind of agree - highly likely Fury wouldn't have backed SHRA the way Stark and Hill did IF at all. Would be interesting to see a What If...? in this regard.

    Fair. Hill did botch a few things early on in her career/appearance but has since became a great character. This of course is mainly due to Fraction's spectacular Invincible Iron Man run.

    While I enjoyed Civil War for the most part (and probably more than a number of people I know); always thought the concept of the SHRA could've been handled differently.

    The one that always comes to mind is just having representatives of the Superhero Community (Mutants included) register with SHIELD/ the US Government and house the data of their..."constituents" with them. So think an Illuminati style board with additional members and checks & balances in place - e.g. Cap n Tony representing the Avengers; Luke Cage and Iron Fist representing Street Level Heroes; Dr. Strange and Jericho Drumm repping Magic Weilders, Xavier and Logan representing Mutants; Fantastic Four representing Cosmics etcetera.

    Yeah it may have been a less action packed story, but think it could have worked.

  13. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Yeah, for every "good" moment Hill has there are 10x more where she screws up or makes everything worse.
    She seemed set up to be the 'bad SHIELD boss' from the jump, to serve as the screw up that they didn't want to saddle Fury with (ironic, since they were just gonna get rid of him anyway...).

    I kinda wish someone like Gyrich, who was designed to be hated, got that role, and not the first woman director of SHIELD.

    Plus, when Tony had the former SHIELD-head relegated to fetching his coffee, I would have had much more satisfaction if it was Gyrich.

  14. #134

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    I thought when they started The New Avengers vol. 1 it was exactly what the team needed an all-star line up and after that too many pointless events, and new Avengers teams that seemed to be tripping over each other.

  15. #135
    Fantastic Member Haquim's Avatar
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    Bendis' avengers were consistently terrible. As he always does he wrote them out of character and with no respect for continuity, forcing his troupes (Talking heads? Superheroes at the dinner table. No secret identities. The Hood, cosmic threat, and so on) on the reader while shelling out dialogue that did not belong with the characters.

    I was honestly overjoyed when DC took him. Good riddance I say.
    Last edited by Haquim; 05-25-2020 at 12:47 PM.

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