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  1. #1
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    Default Thoughts on Bendis' Avengers

    This is a fascinating period of the Avengers. It's a relaunch of the Avengers brand, and personally I preferred the "classic" status quo while its slowly turning back to, which explored new spaces and tried to bring realism to the Avengers in a fashion only Bendis is capable of. He made controversial choices, and sometimes he missed the landings but overall I think it's a valuable change the brand needed. It was intriguing to see the Avengers act more like a bunch of friends than professional colleagues. They felt more like people rather than gods. It was raw, and exciting and experimental. The idea of the Avengers on the run from the government, different teams fighting each other over politics, and being deeply paranoid about evil shapeshifters is immensely entertaining.

    I liked Secret Invasion and Reign, too. The Skulls invading on a mass scale to assimilate Earth felt so logical it's surprising it wants done before.

    What did you like and not like about the Bendis' run?

  2. #2
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    New Avengers isn't exciting to me when you consider what came before it, Disassembled. I just saw no reason for the original team to be taken apart like that. also, Secret War began a series of events that led to the complete destruction of Nick Fury as a character.

    Civil War is certainly popular and I can say that while I appreciate the concept, the aftermath was so rough. I remember it feeling like ages waiting for the heroes to start getting along again. it was an uneasy period in comics...the Mighty Avengers were really hard to side with. and Simon always seemed to be receiving the low blows. I can't remember any writer before Fraction who wasn't writing Tony as a complete POS. the New Avengers during this period were cool since they were like a little family of fugitives. the Elektra reveal was exciting but I can't remember any follow up explaining why the Skrulls were interested in controlling the Hand and why they wanted Echo. for most of the Skrull reveals I could never understand why they posed as certain people. I think the shock of going "OMG Hank Pym, Jarvis, and Jessica are all Skrulls!!!!!" meant more to the book than the actual reasoning behind the reveals.

    with Dark Reign -- were people totally behind this concept back then? I was dying for it to be over. Dark Avengers had great spectacle but most of the down-time moments consisted of Moonstone trying to bone every team member (GROSS!!!) . the best thing to come out of Siege was the death of Sentry. I really can't understand why Bendis spent so much time trying to expand this character. the original miniseries was incredible, it should have just ended there.

    I can barely remember anything about the post Dark Reign New Avengers. Iron Fist turns white and gold, Brother Voodoo becomes Sorcerer Supreme, Daredevil shoots a bunch of robots with a massive chaingun and gets invited to join the Avengers, Osborn becomes a super adaptoid. None of it stuck.

    Bendis' strength is with his dialogue and how he writes character relationships and dynamics. they are very grounded and often self-aware character interactions that help to enforce the feeling that the characters in his team books are friends, or at least coworkers, and have varying degrees of love and respect for one another. that makes his stories fun to read. other than that though, he does better on solo books that don't deal with world-shaping events.
    Last edited by Elmo; 05-11-2020 at 05:54 AM.

  3. #3
    Astonishing Member Riv86672's Avatar
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    Bendis' strength is with his dialogue and how he writes character relationships and dynamics. they are very grounded and often self-aware character interactions that help to enforce the feeling that the characters in his team books are friends, or at least coworkers, and have varying degrees of love and respect for one another. that makes his stories fun to read. other than that though, he does better on solo books that don't deal with world-shaping events.
    I enjoyed the stories (the early ones at least) for this.
    And he put a spotlight on Luke Cage, which I’ll always be thankful to him for.

  4. #4
    Astonishing Member Jekyll's Avatar
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    I loved his New Avengers run, mainly because many of my favorite characters were included on his roster. Daredevil was there during the first arc, then you had Iron Fist, Spider-Man, Wolverine, and Doctor Strange. It was awesome!
    AKA FlashFreak
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    DC: The Flash (Jay & Wally), The Atom (Ray Palmer) , Jack Knight, Stargirl, & Shazam!.
    MARVEL: Daredevil, Spider-Man (Peter Parker), Iron Fist, Doctor Strange, & Ant-Man (Scott Lang).

    Current Pulls: Daredevil, Amazing Spider-Man, Venom, Immortal Hulk, Dr. Strange, Star Wars,Shazam, The Flash, & TMNT!

  5. #5
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    Intriguing set ups, but bad follow through. The interactions between the different characters mostly worked, but the plots tended to meander and then just sort of petered out.

  6. #6
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    Bendis’ run should have ended with New Avengers: Finale.

    I think it’s very much a product - and a victim - ofit’s a time. A victim in the sense that this was the time when Marvel was really starting to throw out the events an changing the status quo - to the point where it felt like Bendis’ Avengers was an intermediary between events.

    I have LOTS to say about the run. So much is good stuff. Bendis did a lot more than people give him respect for.

  7. #7
    Uncanny Member XPac's Avatar
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    Though I had issues with some of Bendis continuity and characterization, it nonetheless was a very exciting time for me.

    Firstly because he brought the Avengers to a level of prominance in my mind they were always supposed to be. They should be the spine of the marvel universe. And they became what I feel they always should have been. That alone made it feel special.

    But aside from that, I think the stories just drew people in. Even the people who said they hated it seemed to come together and discuss the stories month after month. People were emotionally invested in the product and comics in general moreso than they have been in a long long time.

    It ran out of steam after Siege, and he probably overstayed his time on the book. But it was nonetheless a pretty amazing time for the Avengers. It felt epic and important in a way he never had before, and arguably ever has since.

    Oh, and he put freaking Spider-Man in a full time Avengers team. To me as a fan, that was huge too.

  8. #8
    Better than YOU! Alan2099's Avatar
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    The idea seemed to be a very interesting one.

    Only a few issues into it, I was already tired of it. It never felt like "the Avengers". It was just a random team-up that stuck around, many of them being written badly out of character to justify.

    Even the people who said they hated it seemed to come together and discuss the stories month after month. People were emotionally invested in the product and comics in general moreso than they have been in a long long time.
    Speaking as somebody that didn't like it, part of the reason it got discussed so much is that you couldn't get away from it. EVERYTHING that was going on in the Marvel universe involved the Avengers and if there was a character you liked, odds are they've be written horribly out of character so Bendis could move his plot along.

  9. #9
    Uncanny Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan2099 View Post
    The idea seemed to be a very interesting one.

    Only a few issues into it, I was already tired of it. It never felt like "the Avengers". It was just a random team-up that stuck around, many of them being written badly out of character to justify.


    Speaking as somebody that didn't like it, part of the reason it got discussed so much is that you couldn't get away from it. EVERYTHING that was going on in the Marvel universe involved the Avengers and if there was a character you liked, odds are they've be written horribly out of character so Bendis could move his plot along.
    By Civil War I would agree with that. Avengers were clearly the spine of the entire marvel universe.

    But even prior to that Bendis Avengers was CLEARLY the talk of the water cooler. Going back to the very first issue of Disassembled, I think it generated a buzz he haven't seen in marvel in a very long long time. Not that everyone loved it... on the contrary plenty seemed to hate it. But it nonetheless got people emotionally invested in the Avengers right off the bat.

  10. #10
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    I hated how Disassembled threw many characters under the bus. Can you imagine if the MCU ended this way?

    But I did love Dark Reign. The concept and execution. Now having everyone fugitives or begrudgingly working with the bad guys.

  11. #11
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    I only ducked my head in here and there, but from what I read, I enjoyed his run. That said, to me, anyways, he seemed to lose a bit of steam after Secret Invasion.
    His current approval rating is 34%, meaning 34% of Americans are still morons.

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    By Civil War I would agree with that. Avengers were clearly the spine of the entire marvel universe.

    But even prior to that Bendis Avengers was CLEARLY the talk of the water cooler. Going back to the very first issue of Disassembled, I think it generated a buzz he haven't seen in marvel in a very long long time. Not that everyone loved it... on the contrary plenty seemed to hate it. But it nonetheless got people emotionally invested in the Avengers right off the bat.
    So it was like the clickbait of comics, lol.
    Was Curlytop

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elmo View Post

    with Dark Reign -- were people totally behind this concept back then? I was dying for it to be over. Dark Avengers had great spectacle but most of the down-time moments consisted of Moonstone trying to bone every team member (GROSS!!!) . the best thing to come out of Siege was the death of Sentry. I really can't understand why Bendis spent so much time trying to expand this character. the original miniseries was incredible, it should have just ended there.

    I can barely remember anything about the post Dark Reign New Avengers. Iron Fist turns white and gold, Brother Voodoo becomes Sorcerer Supreme, Daredevil shoots a bunch of robots with a massive chaingun and gets invited to join the Avengers, Osborn becomes a super adaptoid. None of it stuck.

    Bendis' strength is with his dialogue and how he writes character relationships and dynamics. they are very grounded and often self-aware character interactions that help to enforce the feeling that the characters in his team books are friends, or at least coworkers, and have varying degrees of love and respect for one another. that makes his stories fun to read. other than that though, he does better on solo books that don't deal with world-shaping events.
    His writing on Moonstone was horrible.

    Bendis: "Now Moonstone I'll probably get some letters on. She's going to be using sex as a weapon, not because that's what I feel women do, but because that's what I feel this mentally ill woman would do in close quarters. She started with Marvel Boy and will begin making her way through the team."
    https://www.ign.com/articles/2009/11...k-reign?page=7

    here are intersting comments,
    Did Bendis read anything about the character before deciding this? Ever since Ellis gave hints of Moonstone's "casual" view of sex, she has just been the team whore.
    So instead of Karla manipulating others, something she does best, her body will see her through?

    IF, as a writer, you recognize that you are writing a female character in such a way that you feel the need to defend yourself against accusations of sexism BEFORE the work is even published– well, perhaps you should re-evaluate how you are writing her. Furthermore, as others have said, “Woman Uses Sex As A Weapon” is a trope– often sexist, but more importantly, it’s quite frankly a TIRED trope. If the most creative thing Bendis can think of to do with Moonstone is say “She uses sex as a weapon!” then perhaps he should take a break from writing until he comes up with a more creative idea.
    Last edited by destinyascension; 05-11-2020 at 03:16 PM. Reason: added source

  14. #14
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    It made a big impact on the brand and comics in general but ultimately it just didn't really feel like The Avengers.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by destinyascension View Post
    His writing on Moonstone was horrible.

    Bendis: "Now Moonstone I'll probably get some letters on. She's going to be using sex as a weapon, not because that's what I feel women do, but because that's what I feel this mentally ill woman would do in close quarters. She started with Marvel Boy and will begin making her way through the team."

    here are intersting comments,
    Did Bendis read anything about the character before deciding this? Ever since Ellis gave hints of Moonstone's "casual" view of sex, she has just been the team whore.
    So instead of Karla manipulating others, something she does best, her body will see her through?

    IF, as a writer, you recognize that you are writing a female character in such a way that you feel the need to defend yourself against accusations of sexism BEFORE the work is even published– well, perhaps you should re-evaluate how you are writing her. Furthermore, as others have said, “Woman Uses Sex As A Weapon” is a trope– often sexist, but more importantly, it’s quite frankly a TIRED trope. If the most creative thing Bendis can think of to do with Moonstone is say “She uses sex as a weapon!” then perhaps he should take a break from writing until he comes up with a more creative idea.
    Wow did he actually say that?

    I really disliked how he portrayed sex in Alias especially concerning Mattie Franklin, and using Karla’s skills of coercion and manipulation to get her in bed with everyone feels like such a one dimensional take on her character, a detriment really.

    There’s even a scene in Dark Avengers where the whole team speaks about it, and she flat out tells everyone she’s going to screw Bullseye next. Then she does. I mean i don’t know who he was writing that for but it wasn’t for me, definitely wasn’t for Moonstone fans.

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