Thoughts on Bendis' Avengers

[Frontier]

there was also the Cage Marvel MAX series which carried a lot of his characterization in Alias

I didn't know he had a Max series.

[Elmo]

I didn't know he had a Max series.

it was ok, not the best from the imprint. he doesn't have unbreakable skin in it.

[jackolover]

This is a fascinating period of the Avengers. It's a relaunch of the Avengers brand, and personally I preferred the "classic" status quo while its slowly turning back to, which explored new spaces and tried to bring realism to the Avengers in a fashion only Bendis is capable of. He made controversial choices, and sometimes he missed the landings but overall I think it's a valuable change the brand needed. It was intriguing to see the Avengers act more like a bunch of friends than professional colleagues. They felt more like people rather than gods. It was raw, and exciting and experimental. The idea of the Avengers on the run from the government, different teams fighting each other over politics, and being deeply paranoid about evil shapeshifters is immensely entertaining.

I liked Secret Invasion and Reign, too. The Skulls invading on a mass scale to assimilate Earth felt so logical it's surprising it wants done before.

What did you like and not like about the Bendis' run?

Years have passed, and now that the Bendis Avengers descended into this dystopian ending of Secret Wars and ANAD, I can criticise something that had been my favourite Avengers for the last 2 decades.

One criticism could be that causing the decline of Nick Fury and disbanding the original Avengers was a negative result for all the franchises, and directly linked to the death of the MU. This is how I view that period at Marvel now. Was it worth it? I think Marvel had to go through Civil War as the Dark Reign. Marvel needed some reorganising in the post-911 world, because you couldn’t just keep writing standard superhero comic literature and not acknowledge 911 happened. Civil War and Dark Reign was all 911 incorporated into the books, and it was a psychological acknowledgment of what happened in the community after the attacks. What was the result of 911? It was a re-establishing of America on another level, with new rules, with new procedures that were almost paranoid. And as Secret Wars 2015 showed, the old pre-911 America died and returned as this re-imagined thing, a little more cynical.

So, I can’t criticise that Bendis period of Avengers too much, in that it rolled with the psychological punches to the gut America was experiencing. I think Bendis’ Avengers had to be told that way. Marvel certainly didn’t write enough books showing 911’s impact on society, just Spider-Man #36, and MK Captain America #1-3. It wasn’t enough. The Bendis Avengers was that filling-in of all the books that should have been written about 911.

If you want to read 911 in its entirety, it reads like this :

ASM #36
MK Cap #1-3
Secret War by Bendis
FF Unthinkable
FF Authorative Action
AD and tie-ins
NA
HOM
CW etc till SW2015.

I’d just like to know the purpose of the Illuminati in all this?

I think Marvel need to do the same again post-Covid19 as well. You can’t write your books the same as ANAD anymore without acknowledging the complete overhaul of society due to the virus.

[Frontier]

it was ok, not the best from the imprint. he doesn't have unbreakable skin in it.

...Then how is he Luke Cage ?

[Elmo]

...Then how is he Luke Cage ?

Super strong and defends his neighborhood

[stingray]

Yeah, but why change something that's been an established part of the character's powers from day one?

[Elmo]

Yeah, but why change something that's been an established part of the character's powers from day one?

I didn’t write it man it’s just a story

[charliehustle415]

Years have passed, and now that the Bendis Avengers descended into this dystopian ending of Secret Wars and ANAD, I can criticise something that had been my favourite Avengers for the last 2 decades.

One criticism could be that causing the decline of Nick Fury and disbanding the original Avengers was a negative result for all the franchises, and directly linked to the death of the MU. This is how I view that period at Marvel now. Was it worth it? I think Marvel had to go through Civil War as the Dark Reign. Marvel needed some reorganising in the post-911 world, because you couldn’t just keep writing standard superhero comic literature and not acknowledge 911 happened. Civil War and Dark Reign was all 911 incorporated into the books, and it was a psychological acknowledgment of what happened in the community after the attacks. What was the result of 911? It was a re-establishing of America on another level, with new rules, with new procedures that were almost paranoid. And as Secret Wars 2015 showed, the old pre-911 America died and returned as this re-imagined thing, a little more cynical.

So, I can’t criticise that Bendis period of Avengers too much, in that it rolled with the psychological punches to the gut America was experiencing. I think Bendis’ Avengers had to be told that way. Marvel certainly didn’t write enough books showing 911’s impact on society, just Spider-Man #36, and MK Captain America #1-3. It wasn’t enough. The Bendis Avengers was that filling-in of all the books that should have been written about 911.

If you want to read 911 in its entirety, it reads like this :

ASM #36
MK Cap #1-3
Secret War by Bendis
FF Unthinkable
FF Authorative Action
AD and tie-ins
NA
HOM
CW etc till SW2015.

I’d just like to know the purpose of the Illuminati in all this?

I think Marvel need to do the same again post-Covid19 as well. You can’t write your books the same as ANAD anymore without acknowledging the complete overhaul of society due to the virus.

Excellent write up.

I myself never had any attachment to the Avenger's pre-Bendis but I don't think his era ended with ANAD for me it ended with Secret Wars.

What Marvel did afterwards is on everyone but Bendis; I think if you were to read Disassembled all the way up to Secret Wars it makes for an ultimate Saga that can rival most world religions.

It is literally the end of one age that leads directly to the rebirth of another. Bendis completely deconstructed the Avengers and when 9/11 hit Millar completely tore it asunder and there was no going back. Hickman came along and took the pieces and used the Avengers as an analogue of American hubris of "knowing better" Reed & Co. thought they knew better which led to the complete destruction of the multiverse.

It ended with the compete rebirth of the universe where everyone had a chance to reinvent themselves; including the one time God: Dr. Doom.

It began acknowledging 9/11 with the hyper-cynicism of Bush era America and then ends with the aspirational heights of Obama era America.

Secret Wars ended in 2015 so the election didn't happen and I think ANAD was a response to the 2016 election.

Also I think Nick Fury was sidelined because he was the analogue of the American government that didn't head the Al-Qaeda warnings. Fury failed in protecting the world numerous times from Bendis' Secret War all the way to Secret Invasion (Bendis loves his Secrets).

[Orbus]

I think Bendis' New Avengers was necessary for it's time. I prefer the 'classic' Avengers but I do think Bendis' approach at the time was the shot in the arm the franchise needed to them on the big time. Despite veering to the classic characters (because for a long time they didn't have the rights to Spider-Man or Wolverine) I think it's fair to say without this and The Ultimates making Avengers a commercial stand out in comics I'm not sure there would be an Avengers movie or an MCU at all.

I know fans have issues with Spider-Man and Wolverine being Avengers but if the team is Marvel's answer to the Justice League people are going to wonder why JL has all it's best known characters as members whereas Avengers don't even if Cap, Iron Man, Thor and even the likes Scarlet Witch, Hawkeye and Vision have had their profile raised by the movies I still think there's a place for them in the Avengers.

[Noodle]

Yeah, but why change something that's been an established part of the character's powers from day one?

The MAX books weren't meant to be in continuity. But then some of it was good and people liked it, so they started making some of it in continuity.

[Frontier]

Super strong and defends his neighborhood

So he still had super-strength? I think the unbreakable skin is just as important, but that's just me...

I think Bendis' New Avengers was necessary for it's time. I prefer the 'classic' Avengers but I do think Bendis' approach at the time was the shot in the arm the franchise needed to them on the big time. Despite veering to the classic characters (because for a long time they didn't have the rights to Spider-Man or Wolverine) I think it's fair to say without this and The Ultimates making Avengers a commercial stand out in comics I'm not sure there would be an Avengers movie or an MCU at all.

I know fans have issues with Spider-Man and Wolverine being Avengers but if the team is Marvel's answer to the Justice League people are going to wonder why JL has all it's best known characters as members whereas Avengers don't even if Cap, Iron Man, Thor and even the likes Scarlet Witch, Hawkeye and Vision have had their profile raised by the movies I still think there's a place for them in the Avengers.

It's funny to me that we had the Bendis Avengers that tried to change the paradigm of the group while adaptions like the movies and cartoons have leaned more into the classic depictions, albeit with stuff from Bendis like Stark Tower and such.

[Orbus]

It's funny to me that we had the Bendis Avengers that tried to change the paradigm of the group while adaptions like the movies and cartoons have leaned more into the classic depictions, albeit with stuff from Bendis like Stark Tower and such.

They've leaned into the classic characters because they literally didn't have the movie rights to Spider-Man and Wolverine. If they did I'm certain that they'd be part of the lineup...no scratch that if they had the rights to Spider-Man and X-Men characters they'd just make movies based on them and not bothered with Avengers at all.

Still, prior to the Disney buyout pitching the MCU to studios like Paramount and Universal would have very likely resulted in nothing if Bendis had not made The Avengers a #1 sales success in comics for the first time...well ever. Try pitching an ambitious multi-movie epic culminating in an adaption on a comic which had never really sold well and you would like,y be laughed out of Hollywood. They may not have had Spidey or Logan but they did make sure to get a big character in The Hulk who up until recently was even less a traditional Avenger.

Also I'd argue that Bendis didn't mean to alter the paradigm to the degree people think. When he's given a chance to wrap up his run he usually reverts things back to how it started before his run. During his time on the book he brought back Scarlet Witch, Vision, Hawkeye and The Wasp. Had he been on the book longer I'm sure all of them would have been members of the main team again alongside Spider-Man, Wolverine, Spider-Woman. His roster at the time time he left was already much more traditional than what he'd done before. I've long suspected his intention was to lure people in with A-List and cult favourite characters and concepts while slowly reintroducing the classic characters and elements.

[Frontier]

They've leaned into the classic characters because they literally didn't have the movie rights to Spider-Man and Wolverine. If they did I'm certain that they'd be part of the lineup...no scratch that if they had the rights to Spider-Man and X-Men characters they'd just make movies based on them and not bothered with Avengers at all.

Still, prior to the Disney buyout pitching the MCU to studios like Paramount and Universal would have very likely resulted in nothing if Bendis had not made The Avengers a #1 sales success in comics for the first time...well ever. Try pitching an ambitious multi-movie epic culminating in an adaption on a comic which had never really sold well and you would like,y be laughed out of Hollywood. They may not have had Spidey or Logan but they did make sure to get a big character in The Hulk who up until recently was even less a traditional Avenger.

It may have been because of the circumstances, but I think it still stands out and shows how the franchise has developed in surprising ways.

I think Millar's Ultimates run had more to do with thinking of the cinematic potential for The Avengers then Bendis' run, but even with that in mind the movies went for a more traditional take then the Ultimate version.

[XPac]

So he still had super-strength? I think the unbreakable skin is just as important, but that's just me...

It's funny to me that we had the Bendis Avengers that tried to change the paradigm of the group while adaptions like the movies and cartoons have leaned more into the classic depictions, albeit with stuff from Bendis like Stark Tower and such.

In the comics at least there's a natural cycle which has the franchise float between classic and new. We got that very early with the Kooky Quartet. Bendis just happened to float in on one of the more kooky Quartet periods, though you can argue it ended pretty classic.

[Frontier]

In the comics at least there's a natural cycle which has the franchise float between classic and new. We got that very early with the Kooky Quartet. Bendis just happened to float in on one of the more kooky Quartet periods, though you can argue it ended pretty classic.

Or he was the kooky quartet to Earth's Mightiest Heroes' classic.