View Poll Results: Would you like to see Batwoman in a Team Book?

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  • Yes, new version of The Unknowns

    1 3.03%
  • Yes, new version of The Gotham Knights

    9 27.27%
  • Yes, Gotham City Monsters sequel

    4 12.12%
  • Yes, but make a new team for her

    6 18.18%
  • Yes, but add her to an existing team

    4 12.12%
  • No, keep her solo

    9 27.27%
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  1. #46
    Incredible Member Bat-Meal's Avatar
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    The list of suggestions so far for adding her to an existing Team are:

    • Justice League
    • Justice League Elite
    • Justice League Dark
    • Outsiders
    • Birds of Prey
    • Task Force
    • Shadowpact


    Most ppl are opting for either a new Gotham Knights, or that she stays solo. More than a few would like an entirely new team.

  2. #47
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WonderNight View Post
    Dude reading your post about dick brings tears to my eyes, damn you DC!
    Right? I could understand it if we were talking about some D-lister, with those characters you know that any quality showing they get is just an act of the comic book gods being kind and throwing you a bone, and most of the time they're cannon fodder at best. That's just how it is and I get that. But Dick Grayson is one of DC's most consistent and stable, popular characters. As a fan it makes me angry to see him treated like this, as a businessman it actively pisses me off; the IP is worth more than this and if the company can't recognize the money they're leaving on the floor they should just hire me and I'll show them how to turn a gods damn profit with Nightwing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bat-Meal View Post
    The list of suggestions so far for adding her to an existing Team are:

    Most ppl are opting for either a new Gotham Knights, or that she stays solo. More than a few would like an entirely new team.
    Cut the list out just so I don't clutter the thread, but I'd be cool with any of them. I generally favor solo books over team titles, but Kate works for me either way; her mythos isn't so expansive that I feel like we're really losing out when she's on a team, and she works in group settings better than a lot of other characters.

    So a lot of people seem to favor her supernatural connections and stories, but I'm still feeling the paramilitary thing. So just to muddy the waters a little bit more, why not have her join Argus or some other military organization like that? I'd love to see her leading a squad of troops again.
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  3. #48
    Extraordinary Member Caivu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    So a lot of people seem to favor her supernatural connections and stories, but I'm still feeling the paramilitary thing. So just to muddy the waters a little bit more, why not have her join Argus or some other military organization like that? I'd love to see her leading a squad of troops again.
    ARGUS might be too close to the DEO for her taste, and she's stated that she doesn't exactly like the Department of Homeland Security, which it's under IIRC. But an actual military unit of some kind would be a good fit. Her Colony service could even be used as a sort of resume for that, or part of one. SHADE might be the best combination of the two aspects.

    The bigger issue is creating a scenario where Kate making some kind of shift like this makes sense, since she's satisfied even doing low-level vigilante work. 'Tec had a solution to that, but they can't use it again because that would just make her look dumb or be a beat-for-beat repeat.
    Last edited by Caivu; 05-17-2020 at 09:17 PM.
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  4. #49
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    I find it odd that Kate is considered the supernatural expert among the Bat characters. How exactly did this come to be? I know she had that vampire storyline and also had that adventure with Wonder Woman but it seems like she just slid into that role. Especially with no training or experience in the occult or the black arts and the like. And it seems so counter to her background as the hard ass, tough as nails military minded person who would seem to be more at home in a black ops, espionage role. But if it works for her then all good.

  5. #50
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    I haven't read the monster squad book yet, but I think it's less that she's the resident "expert" and more like it's a role she sorta just fell into.

    But there's issues and stories I haven't read about this so maybe she has become the local Bat expert, though I'd think it would take a lot to know more than Bruce and Dick, who have spent a lot of their careers dealing with crazy magic-y crap through the League and Titans.

    Oh, there was also the crime bible stuff with her back in the 52 series as well. So I guess she's had at least a toe in the subgenre since forever.
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  6. #51
    Don't Bully a Hurt Dragon Sergard's Avatar
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    Give her a solo.
    Give her a Batwoman & Question book with Renee.
    Give her a team book.
    I'm not picky.
    I voted "Yes, but make a new team for her" - but I actually just meant "Yes".

    Personally, I'm not so sure if I like any team name with "Gotham" in it. The name sounds restricted, not just locally.
    And something I generally want for all my favorite characters in the bat-franchise: Keep her away from the rest of the batfamily.
    There is just so much stuff wrong with the batfamily.

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caivu View Post
    ARGUS might be too close to the DEO for her taste, and she's stated that she doesn't exactly like the Department of Homeland Security, which it's under IIRC. But an actual military unit of some kind would be a good fit. Her Colony service could even be used as a sort of resume for that, or part of one. SHADE might be the best combination of the two aspects.

    The bigger issue is creating a scenario where Kate making some kind of shift like this makes sense, since she's satisfied even doing low-level vigilante work. 'Tec had a solution to that, but they can't use it again because that would just make her look dumb or be a beat-for-beat repeat.
    Another idea I have that I've been kicking around in my head is that Kathy Kane could resurface, and reach out to Kate and Bette to help her rebuild a good heroic version of Spyral. Goes back to my previous desire to see Bette back in action and furthering her relationship with Kate, while adding the new layer of exploring both their of their relationships with Kathy.

  8. #53
    Extraordinary Member Caivu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The tall man View Post
    I find it odd that Kate is considered the supernatural expert among the Bat characters. How exactly did this come to be? I know she had that vampire storyline and also had that adventure with Wonder Woman but it seems like she just slid into that role. Especially with no training or experience in the occult or the black arts and the like. And it seems so counter to her background as the hard ass, tough as nails military minded person who would seem to be more at home in a black ops, espionage role. But if it works for her then all good.
    She was targeted for ritual sacrifice when she first showed up by a supernatural cult. Since then she's put a lot of study into that sort of stuff and invested in a small library of associated books.
    Last edited by Caivu; 05-18-2020 at 10:26 AM.
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  9. #54
    Incredible Member Bat-Meal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The tall man View Post
    I find it odd that Kate is considered the supernatural expert among the Bat characters. How exactly did this come to be? I know she had that vampire storyline and also had that adventure with Wonder Woman but it seems like she just slid into that role. Especially with no training or experience in the occult or the black arts and the like. And it seems so counter to her background as the hard ass, tough as nails military minded person who would seem to be more at home in a black ops, espionage role. But if it works for her then all good.
    There was a supernatural cult (werewolves and stuff) obsessed with her, (to the point they had a warehouse full of Batwoman costumes for some reason), who had her in their texts that if they sacrificed her on an altar...you know what I can't remember what they thought would happen - but when they continually failed to kill her an offshoot of that cult took to worshipping her as a chosen one (which she hated and told them to get lost), and occasionally turned-up as allies in a fight until their leader died trying to protect Batwoman. Then the survivors turned against her for a bit, then up and left, I think, it's been a while since I read those issues.

  10. #55
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caivu View Post
    ARGUS might be too close to the DEO for her taste, and she's stated that she doesn't exactly like the Department of Homeland Security, which it's under IIRC. But an actual military unit of some kind would be a good fit. Her Colony service could even be used as a sort of resume for that, or part of one. SHADE might be the best combination of the two aspects.

    The bigger issue is creating a scenario where Kate making some kind of shift like this makes sense, since she's satisfied even doing low-level vigilante work. 'Tec had a solution to that, but they can't use it again because that would just make her look dumb or be a beat-for-beat repeat.
    Actually, yeah, SHADE would be an interesting choice.....man, if she thought Bones was bad, Father Time would give her a lesson in crappy bosses. But I'd pay good money to read about her partnered up with Frankenstein (which would help keep those supernatural elements around).

    I don't know what Bendis is doing with Checkmate, but I get the impression that's going to be about the only option for "spy/military" groups going forward. Even Argus got taken out by Leviathan, right? So depending on how the new Checkmate operates, it might be a good fit.

    Oh, now that I think about it, Bendis has listed her as the leader of Spyral. Some people thought it was a typo and was supposed to be Kathy, but I'm pretty sure Bendis has done it a couple times now, and I'm less inclined to think it's a mistake and Bendis slipped her into that role "off panel" for some reason. If that's the case then, as a Nightwing fan, I'm gonna be super pissed about it. No offense to Kate, but if anyone gets to lay claim to Spyral, it's Dick.

    And yeah, I don't really know what would get her to switch gears and join up with an organization, she hasn't really had great luck with those and seems content where she is.....but it might just be as simple as appealing to her sense of duty. Telling her "C'mon Kate, your country needs you!" and a promise to do things better than the CEO or Colony did might be all it takes.
    Last edited by Ascended; 05-18-2020 at 06:33 PM.
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  11. #56
    Extraordinary Member Caivu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Oh, now that I think about it, Bendis has listed her as the leader of Spyral. Some people thought it was a typo and was supposed to be Kathy, but I'm pretty sure Bendis has done it a couple times now, and I'm less inclined to think it's a mistake and Bendis slipped her into that role "off panel" for some reason.
    I only know of one time, but it's definitely, no question a mistake. I wrote a whole Twitter thread about it when it happened listing all the reasons it makes no sense. Apart from the distrust of shady government organizations Kate now has, and the fulfilling work thing... how would she have been hired in the first place? Who would have done it? Why would they have done it, hiring someone who is, as far as the public knows, a celebrity philanthropist at best? Even if Spyral knew of her through maybe her DEO work, she was still incredibly insubordinate there and was involved in the DEO director ending up in a coma. They want someone like that in charge? There's pretty much no angle where this makes any sense.

    And yeah, I don't really know what would get her to switch gears and join up with an organization, she hasn't really had great luck with those and seems content where she is.....but it might just be as simple as appealing to her sense of duty. Telling her "C'mon Kate, your country needs you!" and a promise to do things better than the CEO or Colony did might be all it takes.
    Eh... I think she's too smart for that, especially when the DEO and Jacob both did sorta the same thing.
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  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    I don't know what Bendis is doing with Checkmate, but I get the impression that's going to be about the only option for "spy/military" groups going forward. Even Argus got taken out by Leviathan, right? So depending on how the new Checkmate operates, it might be a good fit.

    Oh, now that I think about it, Bendis has listed her as the leader of Spyral. Some people thought it was a typo and was supposed to be Kathy, but I'm pretty sure Bendis has done it a couple times now, and I'm less inclined to think it's a mistake and Bendis slipped her into that role "off panel" for some reason. If that's the case then, as a Nightwing fan, I'm gonna be super pissed about it. No offense to Kate, but if anyone gets to lay claim to Spyral, it's Dick.
    Quote Originally Posted by Caivu View Post
    I only know of one time, but it's definitely, no question a mistake. I wrote a whole Twitter thread about it when it happened listing all the reasons it makes no sense. Apart from the distrust of shady government organizations Kate now has, and the fulfilling work thing... how would she have been hired in the first place? Who would have done it? Why would they have done it, hiring someone who is, as far as the public knows, a celebrity philanthropist at best? Even if Spyral knew of her through maybe her DEO work, she was still incredibly insubordinate there and was involved in the DEO director ending up in a coma. They want someone like that in charge? There's pretty much no angle where this makes any sense.
    While Checkmate will be the option for a hero spy military group for the foreseeable future, I wouldn't define the foreseeable future to last beyond the Leviathan event. I imagine once Leviathan is defeated you'll see the various villain organizations it assimilated reassert their independence, and I wouldn't be surprised to see Checkmate broken up into smaller specialized organizations like Argus or Deo brought back. For Checkmate to remain the "only" option going forward would require a strong degree editorial oversight which I just don't see lasting.

    And while I do take Kate as a typo for Kathy, I did take the mention to indicate Kathy's survival from her possible "death" in Grayson, and it inspired my above idea about Kathy reaching out to Kate (and Bette) to rebuild a better heroic version of Spyral (once the Checkmate and Leviathan stuff is over). It could make sense of Kathy to reach out to both her superheroine nieces for help. And back in Batman Incorporated there was a mention of Kate having looked up to Kathy. As an aside, Dick could also get involved. I've always wanted a proper Nightwing and Flamebird team up with Dick and Bette.

  13. #58
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    Of course it's a typo. It's Bendis - the guy who constantly writes Damien instead of Damian.
    But I'd be totally down for a story with Kate, Kathy and Bette.

  14. #59
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    I assumed the Spyral thing was a typo too the first time, but it's happened twice at least (can't remember which book the second mention was in, sorry) and that makes me think it's not a typo.

    Maybe Bendis thinks Kate and Kathy are the same person, or maybe he thought Kate would make sense as Kathy's successor, given the name, and had her join up off panel. Maybe he hasn't done enough research to know that's an awful idea. Or maybe it's just a typo that's happened a couple times. I don't know, I just know that this has been said a couple times in Bendis' books.

    As for Checkmate lasting.....I dunno. I know Didio wanted DC's spy world to be cleaned up and smoothed out, and that did need to be done because we've got way too many groups all doing basically the same thing. Didio wanted things boiled down so DC had a single organization, like SHIELD. Now that Didio is gone, who knows if that will still be a thing...but I wouldn't be surprised if it sticks. DC really *did* need to clean that corner up.
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  15. #60
    Extraordinary Member Caivu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    I assumed the Spyral thing was a typo too the first time, but it's happened twice at least (can't remember which book the second mention was in, sorry) and that makes me think it's not a typo.

    Maybe Bendis thinks Kate and Kathy are the same person, or maybe he thought Kate would make sense as Kathy's successor, given the name, and had her join up off panel. Maybe he hasn't done enough research to know that's an awful idea. Or maybe it's just a typo that's happened a couple times. I don't know, I just know that this has been said a couple times in Bendis' books.
    I don't doubt you, but I also can't find any evidence of this second appearance anywhere.

    I checked Kate's appearances in Bendis-written stuff after AC #1010, and could only find two appearances, both of which are single-panel cameos. Nothing where she's only mentioned, and neither of those issues coincide with Spyral appearances. Lois and Clark do meet up with Huntress in AC #1011, but that's just more evidence of an error, right? (If Kate really was in charge of Spyral, why wouldn't Bendis have had her there as well, or even in place of Huntress?)

    I'll keep looking and asking around, but this doesn't seem to be panning out beyond AC #1010 (thankfully).
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