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  1. #61
    Doctor Fate Doctor Kent Nelson's Avatar
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    I remember chatting with David Goyer that he left the JSA due to the heavy arm of Vertigo and both he and Geoff had other things planned for Hector and Lyta. Nonetheless they had a nice farewell with their son...

    I also thought that The Last Days of the Justice Society was a great end for my favourite team... at least it kept them out of trouble for a years... until Zero Hour again along

    Last edited by Doctor Kent Nelson; 05-13-2014 at 03:57 AM.
    I see everyone's fate but my own. Sometimes that scares me. But when I see the future of someone such as yourself, I believe in tomorrow again

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  2. #62
    Doctor Fate Doctor Kent Nelson's Avatar
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    I also thought that the way the JSA were dispatched in Zero Hour was pure BS...



    Come on... A Lord of Order and Sentinel (aka Green Lantern) punked by Extant? I don't think so!
    I see everyone's fate but my own. Sometimes that scares me. But when I see the future of someone such as yourself, I believe in tomorrow again

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  3. #63
    Mighty Member John Venus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Kent Nelson View Post

    I remember chatting with David Goyer that he left the JSA due to the heavy arm of Vertigo and both he and Geoff had other things planned for Hector and Lyta. Nonetheless they had a nice farewell with their son...

    I also thought that The Last Days of the Justice Society was a great end for my favourite team... at least it kept them out of trouble for a years... until Zero Hour again along
    I think they handled Hector and Lyta's departure as best as they can but looking at Hector's parts as a whole, a lot of it is so disjointed. Did he tell you anything else about the Vertigo influence? Why were they so opposed to Hector and Lyta appearing in JSA?

    As well done as it reads from the scans posted, I just don't like the idea of chucking characters into limbo or killing them off because they don't fit the editorial vision. Every characters deserve the limelight and to be used and told as much stories as possible.


    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Kent Nelson View Post
    I also thought that the way the JSA were dispatched in Zero Hour was pure BS...



    Come on... A Lord of Order and Sentinel (aka Green Lantern) punked by Extant? I don't think so!
    I know right? At least they came back later on.

  4. #64
    Spectacular Member Babylon23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Kent Nelson View Post
    I also thought that the way the JSA were dispatched in Zero Hour was pure BS...



    Come on... A Lord of Order and Sentinel (aka Green Lantern) punked by Extant? I don't think so!
    I remember getting really angry when I first read this scene. Such a disrespectful way to take out some of DC's best original characters. The JSA deserved better.

  5. #65
    Spectacular Member Babylon23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Kent Nelson View Post

    I remember chatting with David Goyer that he left the JSA due to the heavy arm of Vertigo and both he and Geoff had other things planned for Hector and Lyta. Nonetheless they had a nice farewell with their son...
    This would certainly explain a lot. The death of Hector and Lyta seemed so sudden and abrupt, almost like an afterthought. The buildup of Hector as Fate was excellent through issue 50 and there were a lot of unanswered questions and subplots about him and Lyta.

  6. #66
    Mighty Member John Venus's Avatar
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    I wonder how much of a role Vertigo played in derailing Goyer and Johns original plans and what kind of plans they were in the first place. I hope we find out about it one day.

    So what do you guys think of the Eric and Linda Strauss version of Dr. Fate?


  7. #67
    Protector of Mortals Prof. Aegis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Kent Nelson View Post


    Won't be too long until we see Doc Fate in multiversity either! I really hope it's Kent Nelson too and the series sounds fun as well!

    The image is not from the series either but an artists interpretation from the brief glimpse we saw of Doc Fate with Lady Blackhawk.

    This image is amazing!! I love the 30's adventurer vibe! Yes very Indy and Doc Savage too. Has a nice mix of mystic, archeologist, and adventurer. Very cool!

    Has there been any image of Fate from the upcoming Multiversity? I'm intrigued!
    The Doors of Wisdom are never shut! - Benjamin Franklin

  8. #68
    Doctor Fate Doctor Kent Nelson's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=John Venus;71743]I think they handled Hector and Lyta's departure as best as they can but looking at Hector's parts as a whole, a lot of it is so disjointed. Did he tell you anything else about the Vertigo influence? Why were they so opposed to Hector and Lyta appearing in JSA?


    Unfortunately he never disclosed the whole story to me but did state that when he left "DC", he would make it known. With that said, he then became a movie writer so I guess he didn't want to burn any bridges. However if I read between the lines, I believe that Karen Berger (Editor of Vertigo) was livid that Vertigo characters were being used in mainstream DC, especially two pivotal characters to the Sandman mythology. The JSA team were politely told to remove them which then lead to their deaths.

    A shame really.
    I see everyone's fate but my own. Sometimes that scares me. But when I see the future of someone such as yourself, I believe in tomorrow again

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  9. #69
    Doctor Fate Doctor Kent Nelson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Venus View Post
    I wonder how much of a role Vertigo played in derailing Goyer and Johns original plans and what kind of plans they were in the first place. I hope we find out about it one day.
    So what do you guys think of the Eric and Linda Strauss version of Dr. Fate?
    The Strauss' were VERY weird...





    I read the series when I was a kid but it was way too much new age mumbo jumbo for me... I was stoked when Kent and Inza returned, only to be dispatched several years later

    With that said I didn't mind them but I didn't dislike them either
    I see everyone's fate but my own. Sometimes that scares me. But when I see the future of someone such as yourself, I believe in tomorrow again

    Staff writer at www.impulsegamer.com

  10. #70
    Mighty Member John Venus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Kent Nelson View Post
    Unfortunately he never disclosed the whole story to me but did state that when he left "DC", he would make it known. With that said, he then became a movie writer so I guess he didn't want to burn any bridges. However if I read between the lines, I believe that Karen Berger (Editor of Vertigo) was livid that Vertigo characters were being used in mainstream DC, especially two pivotal characters to the Sandman mythology. The JSA team were politely told to remove them which then lead to their deaths.

    A shame really.
    Indeed. They were never full Vertigo characters, Hector was killed off in his first appearance in the series and Lyta was left insane. I heard the Vertigo split happened because of a court order because people didn't want kids being exposed to it via their appearances in other titles but it's still pretty crazy.

    Hector and Lyta needed rebuilding after what happened to them. It's not like you need all the Sandman backstory: born without a soul, killed off but never really died and then reincarnated as Dr. Fate works fine for Hector and as for Lyta: married to Hector, lost her baby, fell into depression and reunites with Hector in his second life works just fine.

    Which is more or less what happened. However, not knowing the full details, maybe Goyer/Johns plans would have intruded too much into Gaiman's Sandman stuff so maybe Karen had good reason to intervene leaving Goyer/Johns with no idea with what else to do with the characters.



    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Kent Nelson View Post
    The Strauss' were VERY weird...





    I read the series when I was a kid but it was way too much new age mumbo jumbo for me... I was stoked when Kent and Inza returned, only to be dispatched several years later

    With that said I didn't mind them but I didn't dislike them either
    I read the first few issues but never quite finished it. One of the things I liked about the series was that DeMattis/Giffen explored the idea of Eric being a kid being given great powers. Kent was just a kid but was magically aged to adulthood by Nabu and got the responsibility thrust upon him but IIRC it was never truly explored. With Eric, he really was just a kid aged to adulthood and Linda was his partner and they both engaged in a tug of war when they became Dr. Fate.

    So let me get this straight:

    Kent is killed off in DeMattis/Giffen mini with Eric & Linda taking his place.

    Then Eric and Linda are dispatched and Kent returns.

    Kent is removed from the role again and replaced by Jared Stevens.

    Jared Stevens is killed off and Hector becomes the new Dr. Fate.

    Kent and the other Fates mentor Hector from within the amulet.

    Hector and Nabu are killed off.

    Kent's nephew Kent V. Nelson takes his place.

    Did I get it right?
    Last edited by John Venus; 05-14-2014 at 11:08 AM.

  11. #71
    Doctor Fate Doctor Kent Nelson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Venus View Post
    [COLOR="#B22222"]I read the first few issues but never quite finished it. One of the things I liked about the series was that DeMattis/Giffen explored the idea of Eric being a kid being given great powers. Kent was just a kid but was magically aged to adulthood by Nabu and got the responsibility thrust upon him but IIRC it was never truly explored. With Eric, he really was just a kid aged to adulthood and Linda was his partner and they both engaged in a tug of war when they became Dr. Fate.

    So let me get this straight:

    Kent is killed off in DeMattis/Giffen mini with Eric & Linda taking his place.

    Then Eric and Linda are dispatched and Kent returns.

    Kent is removed from the role again and replaced by Jared Stevens.

    Jared Stevens is killed off and Hector becomes the new Dr. Fate.

    Kent and the other Fates mentor Hector from within the amulet.

    Hector and Nabu are killed off.

    Kent's nephew Kent V. Nelson takes his place.

    Did I get it right?
    Spot on! The only tweaks I would make is that before Eric and Linda both died, Linda became a solo Dr. Fate. And when they "died", Kent and Inza Nelson briefly became Dr. Fate, until it was solo with Inza. When the series ended, it was Kent and Inza as Dr. Fate who where then briefly dispatched by Extant in Zero Hour.

    After Hector's Death, Nabu became Dr. Fate for a little bit too. It's also a shame that all the previously incarnations of Fate never existed in the Amulet of Anubis either ...



    No wonder modern age DC could never get this right, it's so convoluted!

    I see everyone's fate but my own. Sometimes that scares me. But when I see the future of someone such as yourself, I believe in tomorrow again

    Staff writer at www.impulsegamer.com

  12. #72
    Mighty Member John Venus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Kent Nelson View Post
    Spot on! The only tweaks I would make is that before Eric and Linda both died, Linda became a solo Dr. Fate. And when they "died", Kent and Inza Nelson briefly became Dr. Fate, until it was solo with Inza. When the series ended, it was Kent and Inza as Dr. Fate who where then briefly dispatched by Extant in Zero Hour.
    Thanks and thanks for the additional info!


    After Hector's Death, Nabu became Dr. Fate for a little bit too. It's also a shame that all the previously incarnations of Fate never existed in the Amulet of Anubis either ...

    No wonder modern age DC could never get this right, it's so convoluted!
    Wait, didn't it turn out that they really were in the amulet all along when Nabu went evil and Hector met Lyta again?

    Clearly we need to create another Dr. Fate instead of using the ones that came before. Kent, Inza, Eric, Linda, Hector, Kent V or Khalid, I don't care, just stick with one!

    Also thank the Gods that it's a direct succession instead of the convulted mess that is Hawkman's life Post COIE.

  13. #73
    Doctor Fate Doctor Kent Nelson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Venus View Post
    Thanks and thanks for the additional info!


    Wait, didn't it turn out that they really were in the amulet all along when Nabu went evil and Hector met Lyta again?

    Clearly we need to create another Dr. Fate instead of using the ones that came before. Kent, Inza, Eric, Linda, Hector, Kent V or Khalid, I don't care, just stick with one!

    Also thank the Gods that it's a direct succession instead of the convulted mess that is Hawkman's life Post COIE.
    I think Geoff and David changed the story about the previous "Fate" incarnations living in the helmet. Originally it was all the incarnations of Fate but apparently they were just part of Hector's defence systems and all imaginary.

    Last edited by Doctor Kent Nelson; 05-15-2014 at 01:45 AM.
    I see everyone's fate but my own. Sometimes that scares me. But when I see the future of someone such as yourself, I believe in tomorrow again

    Staff writer at www.impulsegamer.com

  14. #74
    Doctor Fate Doctor Kent Nelson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prof. Aegis View Post
    This image is amazing!! I love the 30's adventurer vibe! Yes very Indy and Doc Savage too. Has a nice mix of mystic, archeologist, and adventurer. Very cool!

    Has there been any image of Fate from the upcoming Multiversity? I'm intrigued!
    Yeah very cool! Unfortunately nothing yet and no official picture, just this one from that Superman comic several years ago.



    However this "splash page" appeared in the latest DC Comics this week with our good old DOCTOR FATE in the top left hand panel!

    Last edited by Doctor Kent Nelson; 05-15-2014 at 02:16 AM.
    I see everyone's fate but my own. Sometimes that scares me. But when I see the future of someone such as yourself, I believe in tomorrow again

    Staff writer at www.impulsegamer.com

  15. #75
    Doctor Fate Doctor Kent Nelson's Avatar
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    Just some more classic Dr. Fate love
    I see everyone's fate but my own. Sometimes that scares me. But when I see the future of someone such as yourself, I believe in tomorrow again

    Staff writer at www.impulsegamer.com

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