Between One More Day and Gwen Stacy's affair with Osborn, which one is worse?

[Alan2099]

Another thing I dislike about Sins Past, is the use of Norman. The story uses Norman like he was some great mastermind that spent all his days planning how to make Spider-man as miserable as possible, when he wasn't that kind of character back then. He didn't become the evil mastermind on that level until AFTER his death where he had to take time to recover.

Plus it says that in all this time, ever time Norman has tried to get the better of Spider-man, he's never once thought of using that as his trump card until Sins Past.

There's also the general complaint about Norman seeming to be behind everything that went wrong in Spider-man's life. Thankfully they've pulled back from that since then, but at the time it was really overdone.

[PCN24454]

Another thing I dislike about Sins Past, is the use of Norman. The story uses Norman like he was some great mastermind that spent all his days planning how to make Spider-man as miserable as possible, when he wasn't that kind of character back then. He didn't become the evil mastermind on that level until AFTER his death where he had to take time to recover.

Plus it says that in all this time, ever time Norman has tried to get the better of Spider-man, he's never once thought of using that as his trump card until Sins Past.

There's also the general complaint about Norman seeming to be behind everything that went wrong in Spider-man's life. Thankfully they've pulled back from that since then, but at the time it was really overdone.

You could call it "Archenemy Creep" plus a bit of hindsight bias. Doc Ock started getting it after the Superior Spider-Man incident.

[TheCape]

He wasn't behind everything bad behind Peter life, there is a lot of stuff after his resurrection that has s@#$ to do with him. The timing of Sin of Past was awfull thougth, because it happened really close to Mark Millar mega arc with Osborn as the bad guy, it really felt like too much.

[Ozymandias]

Speaking of which, I do notice that those who say Gwen would do such a thing typically admit they've never cared for her character. I don't like Aunt May, for example, but if someone wrote a story in which she turned on Peter and became a supervillain without mental alteration or something I'd still cry foul because May is acting OOC.

For me, this was already OOC for May:

647.jpg

would this have happened before or after George died?

Who knows? If you're able to squeeze four months into the few days that go between ASM#118-119, you can place the rest of the pregnancy pretty much whenever you want.

[xpyred]

Serious question now; would it be easier to retcon Sins Past away if we say that Gwen Stacy was a clone? Imagine that the reason the children aged rapidly wasn't just because of Norman's blood, but also because Gwen was a clone. We can just bend some of the time frame to say that this Gwen was a clone that Jackal created and the real Gwen was locked away or visiting family at the time. This Gwen degenerated behind the scenes before issue 121 and real Gwen suffered the consequences of her actions. The problem is "ugh, more clones" and i agree but this story has had no real ramifications afterwards. The last time we saw Sarah was in the Sins Remembered arc in Spectacular Spider-Man immediately after Sin Past. Gabriel was seen in the Amazing Spider-Man Presents American Son story and then what?

Point is that Sins Past is really bad and having read it again i can't fathom ever defending the story and i still dislike Gwen for a number of reasons and this story seems to top those reasons.

[Ozymandias]

would it be easier to retcon Sins Past away if we say that Gwen Stacy was a clone?

Easier? Not exactly my idea of "easy", but it does ring a bell.

[Celgress]

Another thing I dislike about Sins Past, is the use of Norman. The story uses Norman like he was some great mastermind that spent all his days planning how to make Spider-man as miserable as possible, when he wasn't that kind of character back then. He didn't become the evil mastermind on that level until AFTER his death where he had to take time to recover......

True, people forget making Peter's/Spider-Man's life hell was not Green Goblin's original motivation. In the beginning, Green Goblin desired to be the biggest crimelord in NYC/the Northeast. Spider-Man was an impediment to his ambitions thus why he hated Spidey and wanted rid of the wall-crawler.

[Alan2099]

Easier? Not exactly my idea of "easy", but it does ring a bell.

Let's just blame the whole thing on Mysterio.

Norman never slept with Gwen. This was all some elaborate hoax Mysterio was trying to pull off for some reason.

[xpyred]

Let's just blame the whole thing on Mysterio.

Norman never slept with Gwen. This was all some elaborate hoax Mysterio was trying to pull off for some reason.

Matter of fact we can still blame Jackal. Gwen left to visit family and Miles Warren clones her. He gives her fake memories of being in love with an older man (himself) but somehow the memories get jumbled and she goes to Norman instead. The memory portions of MJ eavesdropping on Norman and Gwen still happen but shortly after, the fake Gwen degenerates and real Gwen returns unknowing of the events. Osborn attacks her thinking she is the Gwen he slept with. In the end its all Jackal's fault either way

[Cyberstrike]

Serious question now; would it be easier to retcon Sins Past away if we say that Gwen Stacy was a clone? Imagine that the reason the children aged rapidly wasn't just because of Norman's blood, but also because Gwen was a clone. We can just bend some of the time frame to say that this Gwen was a clone that Jackal created and the real Gwen was locked away or visiting family at the time. This Gwen degenerated behind the scenes before issue 121 and real Gwen suffered the consequences of her actions. The problem is "ugh, more clones" and i agree but this story has had no real ramifications afterwards. The last time we saw Sarah was in the Sins Remembered arc in Spectacular Spider-Man immediately after Sin Past. Gabriel was seen in the Amazing Spider-Man Presents American Son story and then what?

Point is that Sins Past is really bad and having read it again i can't fathom ever defending the story and i still dislike Gwen for a number of reasons and this story seems to top those reasons.

The best way is not use the kids in any way shape or form and then have some cosmic event like Hickman's Secret Wars that officially wipes it out of canon and/or continuity, sometimes the simple way is the best.

[PCN24454]

The best way is not use the kids in any way shape or form and then have some cosmic event like Hickman's Secret Wars that officially wipes it out of canon and/or continuity, sometimes the simple way is the best.

The same could be said about OMD. Peter and MJ can just be married, and no one needs to talk about Mephisto.

[Alan2099]

The same could be said about OMD. Peter and MJ can just be married, and no one needs to talk about Mephisto.

They could also just not be married and people don't need to talk about Mephisto. However people would rather whine and cry.

[Starrius]

They could also just not be married and people don't need to talk about Mephisto. However people would rather whine and cry.

or maybe they just like Peter and Mary Jane to be married


there is no need to get all patronizing with the "rather whine and cry" remark

[Mister Mets]

Serious question now; would it be easier to retcon Sins Past away if we say that Gwen Stacy was a clone? Imagine that the reason the children aged rapidly wasn't just because of Norman's blood, but also because Gwen was a clone. We can just bend some of the time frame to say that this Gwen was a clone that Jackal created and the real Gwen was locked away or visiting family at the time. This Gwen degenerated behind the scenes before issue 121 and real Gwen suffered the consequences of her actions. The problem is "ugh, more clones" and i agree but this story has had no real ramifications afterwards. The last time we saw Sarah was in the Sins Remembered arc in Spectacular Spider-Man immediately after Sin Past. Gabriel was seen in the Amazing Spider-Man Presents American Son story and then what?

Point is that Sins Past is really bad and having read it again i can't fathom ever defending the story and i still dislike Gwen for a number of reasons and this story seems to top those reasons.

The best opportunity to retcon it would have been Secret Invasion. Just make it part of a Skrull plan against Norman Osborn. Explain that MJ was hypnotized or something.

[Mister Mets]

The best way is not use the kids in any way shape or form and then have some cosmic event like Hickman's Secret Wars that officially wipes it out of canon and/or continuity, sometimes the simple way is the best.

I'm not sure this would work.

If the kids are erased from continuity, it is narratively the equivalent of a death and it doesn't change anything Sins Past revealed about Gwen's character or MJ's character or a weird goblin-related form or progeria.