CURRENT TIMELINE+Questions...(Superman, JL, YJ)

[Masterff]

Hello,
I have some questions about the CURRENT Timeline:

1. How much has the timeline changed and was it because of Doomsday Clock?
Because Martha and Jonathan Kent seem to be alive now...

2. Whats the status of the JL right now?
After Perpetua

3. I really DONT understand, why does the evil scientist of Star Labs in Young Justice remembers Conner?
Why does he even know his real name?

[sifighter]

1. We don’t know exactly how much it changed, but part of it has changed because of Doomsday Clock. Thanks to that the JSA exists again, the legion of Superheroes exist, The Kents are alive and well, and Wonder Woman has known the JSA since WW2.

2. That would be the upcoming Death Metal event, it goes straight from the ending of issue 39 to Death Metal next month.

3. We won’t know until issue 15 next month, they were going to explain why no one else remembers Young Justice and the characters in it but then the covid delays happened. Once issue 15 comes out we should know more.

[K. Jones]

Hello,
I have some questions about the CURRENT Timeline:

1. How much has the timeline changed and was it because of Doomsday Clock?
Because Martha and Jonathan Kent seem to be alive now...

How much the timeline changed is always an impossible question to answer because it requires a writer to care and sort all the entire DC publishing canon's 75 years and 100,000 comics into "keep" and "modify" and "get rid of" piles.

But broad strokes, the intention is that Superman convinces Doomsday Clock to fix what he's made worse in real-time, so he makes a course-correction, and the implication is the course-correction takes things back closer to the Pre-Flashpoint Universe's appearance. Doesn't erase New 52, either, but "corrects" things. No way to know how much change happened until a writer uses something, but as SIFIGHTER says, so far, JSA is back, there's a Legion Fourboot, Wonder Woman tweaked so that she's been Gadoted back to the Golden Age, Kents alive again, Jor-El and Flashpoint Thomas Wayne dead again, Young Justice history reasserting. The Question and lite-Rucka-verse history reasserting. Batman's career history no longer compressed to the point of being unrealistic. So on and so forth.

"How much has the timeline changed?"

50%. Let's just say 50%. There's no actual way to know, but 50%.

[Factor]

The most confusing to me is the status of the Legion.
Doomsday Clock seemed to imply Clark's history with them was reestablished, but in the end they show the current version of the Legion, which was created because of Jon.
Bendis is currently showing the early days of Jon's interaction with them, while Johns seems to say that Legion's history is closer to the Secret Origins one.
To me it looks like Johns planned to bring back the classic Levitz Legion yet again, but Bendis' reboot changed his plans and they basically just updated the art without thinking about how the latest version really doesn't fit the history shown in Doomsday Clock.

[Digifiend]

Doomsday Clock got kneecapped when Bendis joined DC. The version of Saturn Girl in DDC was erased because history changed and Clark was no longer part of their past. Basically, the ending wasn't what Johns planned.

[Ascended]

I'm pretty sure Clock got kneecapped because Johns couldn't hit his deadline and it took over two years for 12 issues to come out.

Anyway.

1. The JSA and Legion exist again, and the Kents are alive again, because of Clock. Other changes to the continuity might be due to the stuff Snyder did in JL, or Barry screwing around with time travel again, or who knows what. There's several factors that're changing reality in the DCU right now. I think on the meta-level, Johns had plans to reset and reboot the DCU going back to Rebirth Special and Clock was supposed to set the groundwork for whatever Crisis event was going to pull that trigger. Then Clock got delayed, Johns lost influence, and it seems like maybe Snyder is the guy driving that bus now.

2. Metal 2 will answer that question. How that works with the JL book right now....I have no idea. I'm guessing the current issues are going to be in some vague "the story happened, but before Perpetua" timeframe. Or maybe the League in the book right now isn't the League, but a bunch of stand-ins created by the universe because reality demands justice, or some such BS.

3. We'll start getting answers soon. Knowing Bendis, issue 15 will just set the stage and we won't actually get answers until issue 30 or something.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

The simple answer is that time in the DCU is broken and that's a key point of the whole Perpetua and Wally West subplots. According to Snyder's interviews, all this will be resolved in Death Metal.

However, the original plan for a decades long timeline has been altered by DiDio's exit and seems to be morphing into a more traditional sliding timeline that covers all the main events of the old DCU, but with the new wrinkle of Wonder Woman replacing Superman in 1938.

[K. Jones]

The most confusing to me is the status of the Legion.
Doomsday Clock seemed to imply Clark's history with them was reestablished, but in the end they show the current version of the Legion, which was created because of Jon.
Bendis is currently showing the early days of Jon's interaction with them, while Johns seems to say that Legion's history is closer to the Secret Origins one.
To me it looks like Johns planned to bring back the classic Levitz Legion yet again, but Bendis' reboot changed his plans and they basically just updated the art without thinking about how the latest version really doesn't fit the history shown in Doomsday Clock.

Yes.

Johns at least got to semi-sorta say goodbye to his Revival of the Original Legion (instead of setting them up for yet another revival).

Bendis immediately follows up with a Neo Reboot Fourboot akin to the Threeboot Legion.

Neither would have sold well but I do prefer to see the classic adult characters. But that's because I done went and grew up into an adult. (And so did Superman). I don't want to sound too hardcore old fan purist to say that "The Real Legion will return someday" and are still out there. I'm content to let it ride and let the storytellers try something new. For my money, I think the art and design work is stellar, crisp and lovely to look at but the plotting is somehow both overwhelming and yet so decompressed that NOTHING has happened and so I dropped it. But it does occur to me that if Bendis wanted to bring back a Youthful Legion so Superboy had somebody his age to play with, he didn't need to split the difference and "Age Up" Jon, or make pseudo-versions of already existing Legionnaires, retconning (not sure if right word for future) make them youthful again and change up all their make-up to be more modern. They could just be new characters, yeah? Same CODE NAMES and powers but new kids. LEGION: The Next Generation, just like Jon. Maybe one or two of them's moms and dads were Classic Legionnaires so Jon legit has something in common with two of them.

I know the expectation to catch up and see how "every classic Legionnaire is doing" would be a constantly asked question but that's where you just tell your story and tell the fans who can't stop asking "You'll see where a few of them are, but I'm not telling you what ALL 100 OF THEM'S FATES ARE." and just get about to your Next Generation story.

[astro@work]

I'm pretty sure Clock got kneecapped because Johns couldn't hit his deadline and it took over two years for 12 issues to come out.

^ This. 100%

1. The JSA and Legion exist again, and the Kents are alive again, because of Clock. Other changes to the continuity might be due to the stuff Snyder did in JL, or Barry screwing around with time travel again, or who knows what. There's several factors that're changing reality in the DCU right now. I think on the meta-level, Johns had plans to reset and reboot the DCU going back to Rebirth Special and Clock was supposed to set the groundwork for whatever Crisis event was going to pull that trigger. Then Clock got delayed, Johns lost influence, and it seems like maybe Snyder is the guy driving that bus now.

I do think the proclamations that Johns delays dramatically changed the outcome of DClock are overrated. Other than having a quick Saturn Girl reboot towards the end (old Imra fading away, new Imra appearing in the splash sections at the end of #12), and Alfred dying in the middle...what really was altered? All of Johns other changes mentioned above still happened and are pretty universe changing. The Kents return was iffy but now seems to also be addressed in future Superman issues, based on the solicits.

I also question DC saying (I forget, was it Didio?) that D Clock was out of continuity. Seems like when everything is said and done it IS in continuity, with the exception of a needed comment "Alfred's appearances were before he died".

Now we just need to clean up the bloody continuity mess that is outside Superman, JSA and Legion history. I'm hoping Death Metal closes the door on all that.
Example: The New Teen Titans history either happened, or it didn't. But not both...

[Factor]

Legion history is still a mess. Johns actually made things more confusing by including the new version.
Bendis' take isn't the best, but at least it was a pretty clean start in terms of continuity. Now the new team is somewhat inspired by Superman even thought all the other books show that Jon was their inspiration.

JSA are back, but we know very little about their history.
All it takes to fix the Titans is saying NTT are back in continuity and that Cyborg was a founder of that team, not JL. I'd have him as a later addition to the League. They could also ignore everything from New 52 when it comes to Titans.

[sifighter]

Legion history is still a mess. Johns actually made things more confusing by including the new version.
Bendis' take isn't the best, but at least it was a pretty clean start in terms of continuity. Now the new team is somewhat inspired by Superman even thought all the other books show that Jon was their inspiration.

JSA are back, but we know very little about their history.
All it takes to fix the Titans is saying NTT are back in continuity and that Cyborg was a founder of that team, not JL. I'd have him as a later addition to the League. They could also ignore everything from New 52 when it comes to Titans.

I mean I wouldn’t blame Johns on that, I feel like that’s part of the whole “continuity is broken” storyline that’s going on currently throughout DC, we can only hope that Snyder is right in that Death Metal fixes things. I mean for crying out load Justice League called out Doomsday clock as disconnected from the universe even though it changed the universe. So who knows for now.


As for the cyborg thing I agree. Nightwing recently had a big splash page of his memories and what I didn’t like is that basically the whole New Teen Titans team was there except for Cyborg. I’m okay with Cyborg being in the Justice League, it’s fine, but at least recognize his past with his friends.

I agree on the cyborg thing