What does "One True Phoenix" mean?

[JudicatorPrime]

The Phoenix Force already has a known cosmic rival, it has been featured in a few stories already.

According to at least one storyline, the rival to the Phoenix Force is Le Bête Noir. (Note: Marvel intentionally used the masculine form of the French term to indicate that it is male, as where the Phoenix Force is considered female.) I thought I mentioned it earlier. Contrary to belief, Le Bête Noir is not the same thing as the so-called Goblin Force.

Creating dualities is often low hanging fruit for writers. Everyone seems to think that "balance" means that there must exist an opposing force. They're clearly not familiar with physics where some particles are also their own antiparticle. That's how I envision the Phoenix Force. It doesn't need a separate, opposite force. It is both in one. But to each his own. Far be it from me to squelch another's creativity.

[GMikey]

According to at least one storyline, the rival to the Phoenix Force is Le Bête Noir. (Note: Marvel intentionally used the masculine form of the French term to indicate that it is male, as where the Phoenix Force is considered female.) I thought I mentioned it earlier. Contrary to belief, Le Bête Noir is not the same thing as the so-called Goblin Force.

Creating dualities is often low hanging fruit for writers. Everyone seems to think that "balance" means that there must exist an opposing force. They're clearly not familiar with physics where some particles are also their own antiparticle. That's how I envision the Phoenix Force. It doesn't need a separate, opposite force. It is both in one. But to each his own. Far be it from me to squelch another's creativity.

LOL it's been a while since I was last here. Um... I must address this post just to clarify some things...

The writer of this X-Men project didn't create a rival for the Phoenix so there would be a "balance". She wrote this cosmic rival for multiple reasons. One being she finds the Phoenix Force extremely confined as far as the type of plots she would have loved to have introduced; but can't as she feels the Phoenix is very limited and restricted due to its tight association with Jean Grey, and the rules of "how it works". Therefore, to explore the ideas she would have applied to the Phoenix, would instead be given to this cosmic counterpart she claims has way more "freedom" and wiggle room as far as creative storytelling goes.

Its funny you mention physics. This story is well steeped into physics, mysticism, technology and all kinds of facets she's well rounded in. So... to me, it's gonna make the story all the better.

The other reason is to... actually shake things up a bit. Cause almost like a cosmic "uprising" rather than a balancing force, to cause some disruptions and challenge cosmic authority. Meaning, this cosmic entity's very existence serves as a challenge to the Phoenix, on many levels. THIS is really the cause of their rivalry, which allows for some creative exploration of new innovative wonders and powers with a new cosmic entity and its host, as well as expand the Phoenix's depth character wise, give more credence to Jean Grey's association with the Phoenix.

[BlueElf94]

Sorry, but I don't buy anything that was added to her backstory after the Claremont/Byrne story.

As we all know, the Phoenix Force concept was created because they needed a way to bring back Jean from the dead and absolve her from her crimes before X-Factor. I think I read in Tom Defalco's "Comic Book Creators on X-Men" book that the original intent for Phoenix was to just be Jean exposed to cosmic rays (I think Cockrum points out that the same *ping* sound effect found in FF1 can be found in X-Men 101).

Honestly, I might prefer this. It's so much cleaner. The Phoenix Force HAS been the focus of a few really good stories, but more often than not is just a convoluted mess imo (I mean, look at this thread). There's just so much contradictory and extraneous info surrounding it. It's also been made redundant by the amount of people that have wielded it.

Don't get me wrong, I love Marvel for their big, cosmic ideas. But with the Phoenix Force the entire appeal seems to stem from how dense the lore surrounding it is instead of any great stories (not by Claremont) involving it.

[Phoenixx9]

LOL it's been a while since I was last here. Um... I must address this post just to clarify some things...

The writer of this X-Men project didn't create a rival for the Phoenix so there would be a "balance". She wrote this cosmic rival for multiple reasons. One being she finds the Phoenix Force extremely confined as far as the type of plots she would have loved to have introduced; but can't as she feels the Phoenix is very limited and restricted due to its tight association with Jean Grey, and the rules of "how it works". Therefore, to explore the ideas she would have applied to the Phoenix, would instead be given to this cosmic counterpart she claims has way more "freedom" and wiggle room as far as creative storytelling goes.

Its funny you mention physics. This story is well steeped into physics, mysticism, technology and all kinds of facets she's well rounded in. So... to me, it's gonna make the story all the better.

The other reason is to... actually shake things up a bit. Cause almost like a cosmic "uprising" rather than a balancing force, to cause some disruptions and challenge cosmic authority. Meaning, this cosmic entity's very existence serves as a challenge to the Phoenix, on many levels. THIS is really the cause of their rivalry, which allows for some creative exploration of new innovative wonders and powers with a new cosmic entity and its host, as well as expand the Phoenix's depth character wise, give more credence to Jean Grey's association with the Phoenix.

Can we hear more about your friend's cosmic rival?

[Ichijinijisanji]

why were you banned?

[GMikey]

Can we hear more about your friend's cosmic rival?

I'll reply to everyone when I can, busy trying to get my car repaired.

To quickly answer you though, I sent an email and a msg on Msgr, I'm... simply waiting at this point for a response.

atm I can just tell you what I know and allowed to reveal... (gonna make it as spoiler-free possible)

1. The "Cosmic Rival" is considered an "unnaturally" born cosmic being, born of the actions of the Phoenix Force and a particular Mutant.

2. This new being has powers deemed "transcendent" due to the fact it possesses powers the Cosmic Collective (beings such as Silver Surfer, Galactus, the Beyonder, the Phoenix Force, Death, Oblivion, Eternity, etc.) has declared "unnatural" and something that "should not be". This makes the newborn Cosmic Entity the only "Cosmic Outcast".

3. The Cosmic Rival however does have support, which comprises of a very shady and dangerous occult, and various Mutants (like Magneto) across the galaxy, who deem this being a "savior" and "liberator". The Entity goes on to become a "Cosmic Rebel" of a quite indiscernible cause.

4. Fear of what the Cosmic Rival is capable of without any real means to control it, causes much enmity from the Cosmic Collective, and particularly from the Phoenix Force itself. Being rejected, made an outcast, and having so many elements to go against, stirs immense bitterness, anger and rebellion from the Cosmic Entity. Thus begins an epic rivalry between the Phoenix Force, and the wayward "Cosmic Bastard" as "someone" describes it.

5. There's one particular power that the Phoenix Force and Cosmic Rival share, however within the Cosmic Rival, this power evolves into something that terrifies and even threatens the Cosmic Collective. It is decided by the Phoenix that the "Bastard of the Cosmos" and it's One True Host, must be destroyed. Problem however... due to the progression of these arcs, a powerful foe rises that cannot be challenged, and he threatens not just the main timeline universe, but the Multiverse as well. This villain is a fan fave and I'm glad he's getting his spotlight, but I can't reveal who he is. After the rise of (cosmic super-villain), the Phoenix and Cosmic Collective find the ONLY thing that could defeat him... IS this Cosmic Rival. And the scary decision has to be made... should they kill the Cosmic Rival so it would never be a threat to them... but now have to face a battle they know they can't win... OR, allow the Cosmic Rival to be, so it can defeat (cosmic super-villain) but now run the risk of the Cosmic Rival evolving into something irreversible, and now face "changes in existence" as they know and protect it...

That's what I have, I'm sure the writer would be willing to share more of this X-Men/Avengers story

[GMikey]

As we all know, the Phoenix Force concept was created because they needed a way to bring back Jean from the dead and absolve her from her crimes before X-Factor. I think I read in Tom Defalco's "Comic Book Creators on X-Men" book that the original intent for Phoenix was to just be Jean exposed to cosmic rays (I think Cockrum points out that the same *ping* sound effect found in FF1 can be found in X-Men 101).

Honestly, I might prefer this. It's so much cleaner. The Phoenix Force HAS been the focus of a few really good stories, but more often than not is just a convoluted mess imo (I mean, look at this thread). There's just so much contradictory and extraneous info surrounding it. It's also been made redundant by the amount of people that have wielded it.

Don't get me wrong, I love Marvel for their big, cosmic ideas. But with the Phoenix Force the entire appeal seems to stem from how dense the lore surrounding it is instead of any great stories (not by Claremont) involving it.

LOL well... I wasn't trying to cause a ruckus, all I wanted were some answers from fans themselves lol

The only thing for me with the whole Phoenix thing is how I've seen it mishandled. My friends made an interesting point, especially the animator; she said that she actually LIKED the fact Claremont's Phoenix origins were retconned in favor of Phoenix being a cosmic force. Her problem was, she felt the Phoenix needed to be like... Marvel's equivalent to Star Wars' "The Force". That the Phoenix would be a force that powerful Mutants in general would be able to tap into, though we'd see some have higher connection than others. She and several others, are no fans of how the Phoenix was made to be something only Jean solely could master and become one with (along with her "clones"). They'd rather it been a force in which we could experience other creative stories, with other very interesting hosts (written well of course). Similar to how Luke Skywalker wasn't made out to be the "one and only" greatest Force User, allowing space for creative stories to be told of other great Force Users. That I honestly could agree with that.

All of this is one of several reasons this new Cosmic Rival was developed. To explore another, totally separate Mutant wield creator god level cosmic power, and experience the journey of such cosmic outcast/antihero, she says she couldn't explore with Jean Grey as Phoenix. She also stated that the story of this new cosmic entity, would even give more solid credence to Jean Grey's story with the Phoenix.

I just want answers as what would enhance canon, that's all... So I'd know, and hopefully even they would know what would work, and what wouldn't.

[GMikey]

why were you banned?

who was banned?

[Phoenixx9]

I'll reply to everyone when I can, busy trying to get my car repaired.

To quickly answer you though, I sent an email and a msg on Msgr, I'm... simply waiting at this point for a response.

atm I can just tell you what I know and allowed to reveal... (gonna make it as spoiler-free possible)

1. The "Cosmic Rival" is considered an "unnaturally" born cosmic being, born of the actions of the Phoenix Force and a particular Mutant.

2. This new being has powers deemed "transcendent" due to the fact it possesses powers the Cosmic Collective (beings such as Silver Surfer, Galactus, the Beyonder, the Phoenix Force, Death, Oblivion, Eternity, etc.) has declared "unnatural" and something that "should not be". This makes the newborn Cosmic Entity the only "Cosmic Outcast".

3. The Cosmic Rival however does have support, which comprises of a very shady and dangerous occult, and various Mutants (like Magneto) across the galaxy, who deem this being a "savior" and "liberator". The Entity goes on to become a "Cosmic Rebel" of a quite indiscernible cause.

4. Fear of what the Cosmic Rival is capable of without any real means to control it, causes much enmity from the Cosmic Collective, and particularly from the Phoenix Force itself. Being rejected, made an outcast, and having so many elements to go against, stirs immense bitterness, anger and rebellion from the Cosmic Entity. Thus begins an epic rivalry between the Phoenix Force, and the wayward "Cosmic Bastard" as "someone" describes it.

5. There's one particular power that the Phoenix Force and Cosmic Rival share, however within the Cosmic Rival, this power evolves into something that terrifies and even threatens the Cosmic Collective. It is decided by the Phoenix that the "Bastard of the Cosmos" and it's One True Host, must be destroyed. Problem however... due to the progression of these arcs, a powerful foe rises that cannot be challenged, and he threatens not just the main timeline universe, but the Multiverse as well. This villain is a fan fave and I'm glad he's getting his spotlight, but I can't reveal who he is. After the rise of (cosmic super-villain), the Phoenix and Cosmic Collective find the ONLY thing that could defeat him... IS this Cosmic Rival. And the scary decision has to be made... should they kill the Cosmic Rival so it would never be a threat to them... but now have to face a battle they know they can't win... OR, allow the Cosmic Rival to be, so it can defeat (cosmic super-villain) but now run the risk of the Cosmic Rival evolving into something irreversible, and now face "changes in existence" as they know and protect it...

That's what I have, I'm sure the writer would be willing to share more of this X-Men/Avengers story

Thanks.

Sounds interesting and I can see potential.

But as a Phoenix Host, I do not want this rival to make the PF "bad"---that is from the inherent traits of the host----nor seek to make the PF weaker than the rival.

[GMikey]

Thanks.

Sounds interesting and I can see potential.

But as a Phoenix Host, I do not want this rival to make the PF "bad"---that is from the inherent traits of the host----nor seek to make the PF weaker than the rival.

I probably didn't say all this right lol

No, the Cosmic Rival if anything, starts off kinda villainous, or best put, an "antihero", and causes a lot of ruckus. As its powers are beyond anyone's scope or means of control, it quickly becomes the most dangerous being in existence. It also puts its One True Host through quite a bit of torment, each time they merge. So... the Phoenix Force starts off heroic, but then as the story plays out, then they both become more even as each other's hero/villain, as more is learned of the Cosmic Rival.

From what I know, the Phoenix and its host (Jean Grey), and the "Cosmic Rival" and its host (an X-Man), are supposed to clash in the same way as Iron Man and Captain America did in Civil War. Eventually, we would learn both cosmic forces are equally right and wrong. There's even enmity between Jean Grey, and the X-Man that became the "One True Host".

In terms of "who's more powerful"... I think its supposed to be a wash. I do know that the overwhelming power of the Phoenix Force was intentionally brought down some, so it would be challenged by an entity possessing a power set that, according to the writers, is beyond what the Phoenix's capacity of power. It also gives them room to distinguish the Phoenix as it becomes White Phoenix. They want to see the Phoenix and its authority being challenged, and I do like that idea of a plot. Also, the entity would be one possessing "transcendent cosmic power", but unable to consistently use it or understand it, and unable to even fully understand its own self. Thus this is where the Phoenix wins out.

They both edge each other out in different ways. For the Phoenix I know, it's elder cosmic knowledge, authority and omniscience is exceedingly greater and higher. So, the Phoenix wins there. The Cosmic Rival is young, has no "authority", lacks cosmic knowledge, and its powers are "unstable", making it difficult to use consistently. However as an "evolved" cosmic being, the Cosmic Rival does possess "transcendent" and "incomprehensible" forms of energy and powers, beyond anyone's scope of affect. So in a battle of energy projection alone, the Cosmic Rival would win out (so long its powers are "working").

EDIT: I'm still waiting for a response so... I'll let you guys know soon

[GMikey]

Thanks.

Sounds interesting and I can see potential.

But as a Phoenix Host, I do not want this rival to make the PF "bad"---that is from the inherent traits of the host----nor seek to make the PF weaker than the rival.

YAY so... she FINALLY responded to my email, said she was very busy, and I must admit, so was I. The primary writer/animator said that she's trying to wrap up with the first Marvel short, and has already started on the second one. In the meantime, she's working on creating a think tank to propose a lot of ideas that are being developed for the Marvel and X-Men animated series.

I can definitely understand your concern with the development of the Phoenix's role in this animated narrative; its one of the reasons I've asked about pointers and some thought from fans outside this fan created project.

To cut to the chase, we did a live chat in which I asked a number of questions and for more details to share. I rewrote all the important points from that chat down below:

P.S. this was said to be too long, so I'm breaking into two comments....

===========================

My first question was to ask the writer in behalf of Marvel fans who aren't active in this project, "why create a "Cosmic Counterpart" to the Phoenix Force? Esp. when there are existing canon counterparts to choose from? Many feel the Phoenix doesn't need a balancing counterpart, it being its own opposite..."

Her answer was interesting, and as follows... She always loved the idea of the Phoenix Force, and felt it was smart to retcon Chris Claremont's original Phoenix Saga (which she says, was a great run for its time). What wasn't smart, she says, is creating this deep rooted association with Jean Grey and the Phoenix. To her, the Phoenix Force should have become the equivalent to Star Wars' "The Force", a nigh-omnipotent cosmic force, to better explain the birth of Mutants (rather than the canon explanation of the X-Gene), and that they can tap this force, and even become one with it for whatever needs by Fate itself. But nooooo, over the years, Jean Grey is made to be the ONLY entity to be the great "chosen one" of the Phoenix. By that she means Jean Grey, and all of her "clones". She feels not only does that makes the Phoenix a very limited cosmic entity, but it also limits creative and innovative storytelling with said entity as well.

When the Force was conceived for Star Wars, the writers didn't make it as if Luke Skywalker or Darth Vader were the ONLY "One True Host" type of wielders of the Force. Aamof, it angered fans later on that Darth Vader was meant to be some chosen one of some prophesy. And, while they were powerful for their dispensation, she explains, the story was written to where the doors remained open for new adventures and stories to be told of future, ultra powerful Force users. THIS. MAKES. SENSE. She wrote in that fashion lol She says "The Force" is an energy that pervades Creation as a whole, thus would see a very long span of different powerful Force users, through out time. She says, "a cosmic entity that's supposed to be THAT almighty, limited to ONE person as their "one true host" for all of time, makes no sense "theoretically, scientifically and most definitely, metaphysically". I've omitted her "scientific explanation" to keep this as short as possible.

Back to the Phoenix's Rival...

With the creation of the "Cosmic Rival", she said "I wasn't aiming to create a "balance" to the Phoenix, but a challenge". This Cosmic Rival is an antihero, that shakes up the whole narrative of the Cosmic Collective, especially concerning the Phoenix. This she says, gives Jean Grey and the Phoenix something "new" to do, and grants her (the writer) the opportunity to create a new kind of adventure for Jean Grey as Phoenix. One that is part heroic, part "anti-villainous", and one part self reflective, and evolving as characters.

The Cosmic Rival, on the other hand, would serve as an unorthodox cosmic plot device, allowing her (the writer) to unleash all her "unrestricted" creative and innovative ideas, that could have been for the Phoenix Force, even some ideas from many years ago. She says that, because the Phoenix is so tailored to Jean Grey, her ideas would never work, nor be accepted by the fandom. And so, this Cosmic Rival and the Mutant she chose to become its "one true host" are "the perfect canvas" for what she would loved to have explored and experienced with the Phoenix Force, as a very different type of Cosmic Hero.

Also... she didn't want to use the "ridiculous" canon counterparts such as the Goblin Force, and Bete Noir. She hates both of those characters, and they don't even exist in this new Marvel Universe/Multiverse she, and the fans are creating LOL

================================

I did have to ask her (cuz I know this would be a question asked) "what makes the Phoenix Force so "limited" that she couldn't use her "innovative" ideas with it and Jean Grey?"

Her answer was pretty simple... Number one, she always wished, from a very young age, that the Phoenix could be explored with an equitable amount of detail and care, with other mutant as hosts, the same way as comic writers have done for Jean. To her, this would broaden what the Phoenix is and is capable of, in terms of narrative. number two, she'd like to see an all powerful "Cosmic Antihero", and feels Jean Grey would never make a great "antihero", in the way she would like to develop. Third, psychic abilities she feels are a tad overrated, and would like to explore "other powers" that exceed psionics, which is where her blend of metaphysical and scientific knowledge comes into play. The levels of cosmic power and realm of metaphysics she wants to explore, can only be done, with a Mutant possessing a very different power set.

The writer told me the Mutant she chose to be the Cosmic Rival's One True Host, possesses the most untapped, underrated and underdeveloped powers, in which has unimaginable, and insanely unlimited metaphysical potential. To quote her, she says "just as Chris Claremont saw potential in Jean Grey as the Phoenix, it's now my turn as a writer, to realize the true potential of another underrated Mutant as <name of new Cosmic Entity>..."

TO BE CONTINUED

[GMikey]

Thanks.

Sounds interesting and I can see potential.

But as a Phoenix Host, I do not want this rival to make the PF "bad"---that is from the inherent traits of the host----nor seek to make the PF weaker than the rival.

Next I asked, what is the basic plot between the Cosmic Rival and the Phoenix, as well as their hosts?

The writer starts off by saying, she wants to dispel any "myths" that the Cosmic Rival serves as a "balance" and "counterpart" to the Phoenix Force. The Cosmic Rival is only a "balance" for the sake of the narrative, not the actual "mechanics of the story" or "world building" itself. The Cosmic Rival acting as a challenge of authority and a threat to the Phoenix Force and even Jean Grey, serves as a means of "breaking the cycle of narrative repetition" that exists with the Phoenix and Jean Grey's whole story. That's the only "balance that exists". In story, they do not balance each other, and are separate, individual entities, with "mild" relations to each other. More on that later, she says.

The plot on a very rudimentary level, is simple. After the events of the Phoenix Saga, an "anomaly" occurs allowing the birth of a new, "evolved" Cosmic Being. Due to its recklessness, disregard of cosmic authority, possessing forms of power no one (technically) can control, and is obedient only to a disturbingly mysterious occult... the Phoenix returns to Jean, to find a way to bring an end to this "cosmic monster". However, the Phoenix conveniently fails to fully inform Jean HOW this entity came into being (as the PF itself has ulterior motives of why it wants this new being brought down). Jean figures it out, and even unjustly takes some of the blame herself.

The rivalry really begins when the Phoenix enacts its "Judgement of the Phoenix" informing the Cosmic Rival its a being that "shouldn't be" and it must surrender and submit to the Phoenix, in order to avoid destruction (which is impossible). This analogy I thought was hilarious... the writer said "imagine if a rebellious, disrespectful of elders and authority, Emo/Goth teenager developed powers beyond God and the PTA is at his mercy... That's what the Phoenix and nearly the entire Cosmic Collective is having to face". Of course this sets the Cosmic Entity off, declaring the Phoenix is a "wasteful", destructive being, that picks and chooses what is allowed to stay, and what must die, without allowing the possibility of choice. This marks their cosmic level mano y mano, and bitter rivalry. This also forces the Phoenix and Jean to not rely on their cosmic powers, but their wit and far greater cosmic omniscient knowledge, which offers some new type of cosmic storytelling.

She also adds, what is easily the main reason that the Phoenix Force itself loathes the "Cosmic Rival", is the fact that this entity, and its birth, is the "ugly" reflection and reminder of something pertaining to itself, in the narrative. Even for Jean Grey, the Cosmic Rival's One True Host and his character plot, is a painful reminder of certain internal struggles that Jean fears to face.

Unfortunately the main plot that becomes of the Cosmic Rival had to be redacted, but I can say, it becomes that of deep, multilevel confusion, isolation, and internal conflict... however, it evolves into a journey of self discovery, and seeking one's true place. For both, the Cosmic Rival, and it/his One True Host (the Rival is asexual, but considered a "he" due to its host).

After much plot occurs, both Cosmic Beings have to come to "temporary" terms with each other, for the sake of healing the broken Universe, and that ends the whole Phoenix Trilogy (with future stories returning to them later on).

She then addresses the reaction to the ending she received from a focus group. Some diehard Jean Grey fans were actually liking the new Phoenix story... until it got to the end, which pissed them off, for a very dumb reason. She says I (GMikey) can't reveal the ending, but does allow me to share that Jean Grey... LIVED. She's a SURVIVOR, that helps the X-Men and Avengers pick up the pieces in a shattered world, and her and the Phoenix Force would go on micro adventures to mend leftover damages in the cosmos. Granted... I do know why, Jean fans didn't like her ending, they felt... Jean Grey had "worked so hard" in this story that, she should have... been given the "other" ending, or "deserved" the other ending instead. I'll... leave it like that LOL

=============================

The last major thing we discussed, was "who ranks supreme? The Phoenix Force, or the "Cosmic Rival"?

The answer was... a little interesting.

The writer says that "answering that right now is difficult, and its best put that, end the end, they even out". First, we must understand the Cosmic Rival and its/his powers. the "Cosmic Rival" as a whole is a Cosmic Life Form that no one, including itself, understands or comprehends. This is due to the fact this being is the estranged, embodiment of "Cosmic Evolution" and the "Distant Cosmic Future". Using another analogy, she said the Phoenix Force is modern man in all glory, while the Cosmic Rival is the mysterious, uncertain, distant futuristic evolution of man, with all the bizarre, strange things that are yet to come. Metaphysically, she says the Phoenix Force may be the embodiment of all life, death and psionic power, yet... there's in fact, a limit to what that means. The Cosmic Rival represents the terrifying yet fascinating next phase evolution of what that all means.

However, she states that despite possessing "transcendent" capabilities and forms of energy, this doesn't make the Cosmic Rival more "powerful" than the Phoenix Force, per'se. The Phoenix rules with age, its span across the Multiverse, its tremendous and nigh-infinite omnipresence and omniscience. Also, the Phoenix Force is the ultimate master of self, esp. when bonded to Jean Grey, who does make an awesome appearance as White Phoenix of the Crown, in this series. The Cosmic Rival on the other hand, is like a newborn, with very limited knowledge, unstable use of its powers, and greatly lacks self mastery. Going back to the analogy of the cosmic Goth teen, he may possess incredible powers no one understands and can control... but that's just it... not even HE understands it nor can control it. Its only when the Cosmic Rival is able to fully merge as one, evolving to a new form with its/his host, they finally begin developing mastery, and discovery of just what "he" is. So, in terms of its transcendent power set, and embodying "cosmic evolution" and transcendent forms of energy, the Cosmic Rival definitely has the edge over the Phoenix.

In the end, they practically wash out even.

=============================

In the all in all, the Cosmic Rival and Phoenix Force are meant to complement AND conflict with each other, give the Phoenix and Jean Grey a new story to further develop and explore them as characters, while allowing her (the writer) much more creative freedom to explore cosmic adventures for another Mutant as a cosmic "antihero".

I didn't EVEN go into the details of how the Avengers are tied to this, thus giving us an awesome idea for a re-imagined "Avengers vs. X-Men" story. and no, this "Avengers vs. X-Men" saga is not at all based on the comics. Its entirely a fan created plot about the Avengers vs. the X-Men, over... in the end, stripping all the plot twists and details involved, how to save the world.

I did ask about Rachel and Hope Summers, and her answer was this... Rachel she will definitely going to employ for future developments, granting her a role of justified rebellion and leadership, that would play well with her character. She plans to leave the Phoenix out of the majority of her story, so we can see Rachel be a badass with her powers and wit, without the overboost of a cosmic entity, and appearing as a knockoff Jean Grey. However lol... she says "there's no hope, for Hope". Hope Summers and her whole plot as the "Mutant Messaiah" is one she vehemently hated, and so... there won't really be a Hope Summers in the entirety of the series. There will be a somewhat, background OC Mutant named Hope, with psionic abilites as a kind of nod to Hope Summers, but... they are indeed two different characters.

In conclusion, the writer basically says that this story gives Phoenix something brand new, and opens a lot of doors for new cosmic adventures, and new kinds of self discovery plots regarding both Phoenix and Jean Grey. The Cosmic Rival (who has a name that is a spoiler) on the other hand, explores the cosmic potential of a non-Grey, non-psychic Mutant, granting very fresh, experimental stories and journeys as a cosmic antihero, that she says, would be all so refreshing. The plot between the two cosmic beings, revolves around coming to terms with the fact we ourselves are the creators of our own demons; but also, discovering no matter how one came to be, or even what the Cosmos tells you... that only YOU possess the power to determine who and what you are. And that "achieving one's own inner revolution, can will the future of the World".

I hope that sheds better light on everything in regards to the Phoenix and the upcoming Cosmic Rival. This comment is open to suggestions or further questions

[Phoenixx9]

Hi! Thanks for getting back to me with such mysterious detail.

I agree with the writer about the Goblin Force and Le Bette Noir. Glad that they are not being reused!

The points you list sound interesting, if still shrouded in mystery which can make it sound confusing and uncertain to the points. But I guess just coming out and stating, "X is X and does Y because of Z" might give away all of her plot details?

I love Jean Grey, the Phoenix Force (but as the Original intention of Creation and Life, not one of destruction) and Jean Grey as Phoenix. But I also love one other Phoenix Host: Giraud as Phoenix IX (my Avatar).

At this point, I am intrigued! I am open to your writer friend's ideas. (I think, anyway, lol.) This brings me to my next point below.

Is this going to be a comic book, animated series or both? Where/when will we see it? When is it scheduled to come out?

[GMikey]

Hi! Thanks for getting back to me with such mysterious detail.

I agree with the writer about the Goblin Force and Le Bette Noir. Glad that they are not being reused!

The points you list sound interesting, if still shrouded in mystery which can make it sound confusing and uncertain to the points. But I guess just coming out and stating, "X is X and does Y because of Z" might give away all of her plot details?

I love Jean Grey, the Phoenix Force (but as the Original intention of Creation and Life, not one of destruction) and Jean Grey as Phoenix. But I also love one other Phoenix Host: Giraud as Phoenix IX (my Avatar).

At this point, I am intrigued! I am open to your writer friend's ideas. (I think, anyway, lol.) This brings me to my next point below.

Is this going to be a comic book, animated series or both? Where/when will we see it? When is it scheduled to come out?

Glad this served as some sense of verification, to the point of interest

Um... you put it well using variables LOL and yes, I don't know what she would spoil or not, so it was hard to really explain certain plot points, without spoilers. I too am very excited, intrigued, and trying to work on ideas for some of these episodes myself.

She's working hard to get this first short complete, and once she does have it done, "think tanks" will be set up for some Marvel fans to join in, discuss ideas of their own, bring in ideas from other fans, as well as critique ideas from the primary writers. I think you may make a good contributor; you'd learn what the spoilers are, and get better insight of the story as a whole.

The main writer, is also the animator, and this is gonna start this off as a fanime animated series, but... she is looking to pass some storylines to other creators, to turn motion comics. First short will be announced on Facebook, and should be out in 2 wks.

Funny you mention Giraud, while I've only heard of him, others have suggested he make an appearance, as well as Quentin Quire, Rachel for sure, and Feron.

[PwrdOn]

I think it's just a recognition that all of Marvel's efforts to try and make the Phoenix something that can be passed around to any character haven't really stuck or made the same impression on fans as the original, and that regardless of what story they put out there people will always associate it primarily with Jean Grey. Like most good power-ups, the Phoenix is intrinsically tied up in Jean's personal development and that doesn't really transfer to other characters very well. From the beginning, Claremont used the Phoenix as a none-too-subtle metaphor for Jean's sexual maturation into a woman with all the power and beauty, but also all of the rage and madness, that came with that, so expecting to be able to pass the Phoenix off to someone like Namor and expecting it to work the same way is kind of foolish. Of course, the original story also plays into the old stereotype that women are just inherently crazy and need to be brought under control, and subsequent retellings that don't quite understand that and force Jean to renounce the Phoenix and be the pliant good girl once again also have some troubling implications. Now, this doesn't mean that the Phoenix can't be used for other types of stories or that the concept doesn't have potential to be expanded further, but for 40 years Marvel has just basically dipped into the same well over and over and hasn't really taken it in interesting directions. Passing it around to different characters just has the effect of devaluing it as a concept, turning it into some generic power-up and ignoring what made it special in the first place.