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  1. #211
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    Tbh, the whole refusing a promotion thing that happens in Star Trek never made sense to me
    That actually doesn't happen all that much in Star Trek, IMO. Kirk took his promotion but regretted being a desk jockey. That's why he forced his way onto Decker's ship ( which was within his right as Admiralm it just sucked for Decker). Kirk's ship stealing actions during Searck for Spock, saw him get demoted ( he and his crew saved Earth in Voyage Home.... they weren't getting Court Martialed) to the job he wanted anyway.

    Spock was Captain of the Enterprise during most of this but was fine with training cadets in that capacity.

    Chekhov got promoted to First Officer, lost his Captain and his Ship. That might be why he didn't get another ship afterwards.

    Sulu, had to wait for a ship to become available before he could become Captain. Him getting the Excelsior might mean they didn't have Captain slots open. Maybe nobody on the other Constitution Class ships was retiring.

    Lord knows Kirk wasn't.

    The others, McCoy, Scotty and Uhura probably would have retired long before if left to themselves but stuck it out because thier buddies Kirk and Spock weren't going anywhere.

    Really only Riker during the TNG era actively refused promotion.

    He had his heart set on taking over Enterprise when Picard retired. Moreover he had been reunited with Troi and he wasn't going to just leave her again.

    Since he eventually ended up with both a ship and Troi it worked out for him just fine.

  2. #212
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    It's just odd to see a person in the same job for 25 years, at least to me. You're right about it not happening much, but I don't get why it had to happen at all.

  3. #213
    Extraordinary Member ChrisIII's Avatar
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    Although not directly stated in the films it's sort of semi-canon that Sulu was up for the Excelsior captaincy after the transwarp tests were completed but the whole stealing the Enterprise thing set him back for a while.


    Also what exactly was going on between TFF and TUC is kind of never really stated; originally it was intended that the crew had gone their separate ways before the mission acts as "one last roundup" and there's some evidence of this in the finished film (McCoy wondering where Sulu is, Kirk asking Scotty is he found engineering OK etc)


    Thing about Decker, based on his more aggressive suggestions during TMP he probably would've gotten the ship destroyed just like with the Klingons(Kirk's major mishap in the film was really just the wormhole incident) whereas Kirk and Spock's more restrained actions pretty much saved everyone.
    Last edited by ChrisIII; 09-14-2021 at 06:00 PM.
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  4. #214
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    It's just odd to see a person in the same job for 25 years, at least to me. You're right about it not happening much, but I don't get why it had to happen at all.
    You see that kind of thing all the time in the real world, let alone Starfleet. People find a job they love ( or in the real world, tolerate) and stay there until they retire. Some people don't care to climb the ladder.

    The meta/real world reason that the Riker character never tried to get promoted was that if the character's not on the Enterprise ship, he's not on the show. TNG was still very much episodic in nature. There was no way then to have him be on another ship and be still a part of the show.

    Yes you could have had J Frakes play Tom Riker instead. That would have been stupid, imo.

    Now, if TNG had been written like the Battlestar Galactica remake, they could have Riker in his own ship with its own separate storyline that the show would periodically go to until it fed into the main story.

    But I'm told that the reason BG is the way it is because it's a reaction to Voyager storytelling in particular and episodic storytelling in general. So none of that would have occurred to anybody back then.

  5. #215
    Extraordinary Member ChrisIII's Avatar
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    Interesting thing about the original DC comics is that after Spock was brought back, and since TVH wouldn't come out for a while, they gave him his own ship, with certain issues focusing on him and his crew instead of Kirk and co.

    https://memory-beta.fandom.com/wiki/...(Oberth_class)
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  6. #216
    X-Cultist nx01a's Avatar
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    They put him in an Oberth? Did DC want Spock to die? Having read the article, it seems so.
    Quote Originally Posted by The General, JLA #38
    'Why?' Just to see the disappointment on your corn-fed, gee-whiz face, Superman. And because a great dark voice on the edge of nothing spoke to me and said you all had to die. There is no 'Why?'

  7. #217
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vic Vega View Post
    You see that kind of thing all the time in the real world, let alone Starfleet. People find a job they love ( or in the real world, tolerate) and stay there until they retire. Some people don't care to climb the ladder.

    The meta/real world reason that the Riker character never tried to get promoted was that if the character's not on the Enterprise ship, he's not on the show. TNG was still very much episodic in nature. There was no way then to have him be on another ship and be still a part of the show.

    Yes you could have had J Frakes play Tom Riker instead. That would have been stupid, imo.

    Now, if TNG had been written like the Battlestar Galactica remake, they could have Riker in his own ship with its own separate storyline that the show would periodically go to until it fed into the main story.

    But I'm told that the reason BG is the way it is because it's a reaction to Voyager storytelling in particular and episodic storytelling in general. So none of that would have occurred to anybody back then.
    My point is: why introduce that plot element in the first place? Just avoid it until the end of the series

  8. #218
    Extraordinary Member ChrisIII's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nx01a View Post
    They put him in an Oberth? Did DC want Spock to die? Having read the article, it seems so.
    It's kind of weird, Tom Sutton wasn't exactly that consistent with the technology so the Surak either appeared as an Oberth, a smaller excelsior, or some other ship entirely.


    Todd Mcfarlane for example for his "Who's Who" work drew it as a Miranda class, adding to the confusion.
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  9. #219
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    It's just odd to see a person in the same job for 25 years, at least to me. You're right about it not happening much, but I don't get why it had to happen at all.
    From a military point of view, it's very unrealistic that the same command crew would stay together for years and years. You can somewhat justify it because it's a long-range five year mission more akin to the days of the old sailing ships than to our modern era.

    But we have to accept all sorts of things for this kind of fiction to work. Command crews going into dangerous off-ship situations rather than the enlisted men doing it, for example.

    We always joked that Riker turned down promotion for the same reason player-characters in role-playing games stay together, because we're out of the story if we leave. But it was presented as very unusual for someone to turn down promotion and that Riker had reached the stage in his life where his career ambitions were becoming secondary to other considerations.
    Power with Girl is better.

  10. #220
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    So about the Spock romance discussion we had like a page back. these writers may make Spock Bi-sexual.

    https://www.inverse.com/entertainmen...e-historic-way

    Seriously this is not needed or necessary. There has been no evidence in any of Spock's history from books, tv, movies, shows, games and cartoon that Spock was attracted to men.

    I hope they don't go down this part with the character.

  11. #221
    Extraordinary Member ChrisIII's Avatar
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    ^Actually as the article mentions, and some other interviews with Roddenberry suggest, Gene wasn't totally against the concept.
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  12. #222
    X-Cultist nx01a's Avatar
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    There are many characters in Trek who are more interested in a mate's mind than their junk, and Spock would be at the top of that list.
    Quote Originally Posted by The General, JLA #38
    'Why?' Just to see the disappointment on your corn-fed, gee-whiz face, Superman. And because a great dark voice on the edge of nothing spoke to me and said you all had to die. There is no 'Why?'

  13. #223
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    Quote Originally Posted by Castle View Post
    So about the Spock romance discussion we had like a page back. these writers may make Spock Bi-sexual.

    https://www.inverse.com/entertainmen...e-historic-way

    Seriously this is not needed or necessary. There has been no evidence in any of Spock's history from books, tv, movies, shows, games and cartoon that Spock was attracted to men.

    I hope they don't go down this part with the character.
    Only the movies and TV shows are canon, and, oddly enough, none of them stated that Spock was straight. Let's stop with the outrage over nothingburgers.
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  15. #225
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    Is this debuting next year now? Winter or Spring 2022 perhaps.
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