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  1. #586
    Extraordinary Member Jokerz79's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisIII View Post
    Star Trek uniform continuity has been kind of weird for a while now. It's not really that new.
    Even the Starfleet Insignia used in everything for all Starfleet after TOS was originally the Enterprise's unique design and every ship/starbase had their own insignia.

  2. #587
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    I’m inclined to think that SNW deserves to be seen as more respectful and continuous with TOS than otherwise… partially because TOS itself was pretty rough and improvisational with continuity at times, and Rodenberry’s era was constantly seeing things shift and contradict each other, with set and uniform design being nowhere near as noticeable as the occasional “relapses” of sexism and racism in select episodes of TOS, organizations and economics being highly fluid and changing throughout.

    Uniforms and tech screens being retroactively made less cheap-looking and more hi-tech really shouldn’t be a problem anyone has. And I’d argue SNW is making enough of an effort to tone down some of the more blatant contradictions it fits right alongside TOS’s own contradictions and fluidity. And overall, it’s clearly geared more towards the “golden age” traits of classic TOS, TNG, and DS9 storytelling, with conundrums that aren’t just action-scenes away from being resolved… and I’d add that some of TOS and most of early TNG’s nadir of storytelling is just as bad as any of the more recent stuff’s nadirs, simple subbing out dreadfully boring pretentiousness for obnoxious blockbuster-style stuff.
    Like action, adventure, rogues, and outlaws? Like anti-heroes, femme fatales, mysteries and thrillers?

    I wrote a book with them. Outlaw’s Shadow: A Sherwood Noir. Robin Hood’s evil counterpart, Guy of Gisbourne, is the main character. Feel free to give it a look: https://read.amazon.com/kp/embed?asi...E2PKBNJFH76GQP

  3. #588
    Incredible Member James Cameron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by C_Miller View Post
    It does take place in the Prime Timeline, but at the end of the day, it doesn't really matter. If you need it to take place in a different timeline to enjoy it, by all means go for it. Personal canons are far more important than anything else.
    It simply can't. The showrunners and producers say it does because it's all leading up to Kirk and co's Trek, but there are way too many contradictions that can't be overlooked. I agree with your last statement though.

  4. #589
    Ultimate Member ChrisIII's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hypestyle View Post
    does the series stress action or is it more about ethical, philosophical dilemmas? How much of the Pike era of the Enterprise has been written about in novels?
    A little bit of both I think, like most pre-2009 Trek I think.

    There's been a few Pike novels here and there, not sure how many. The biggest Pike work prior to Discovery and SNW in the Trek EU is probably this:


    https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki..._Early_Voyages


    It was during Marvel's extremely brief return to Star Trek comics in 1996-1998, and I think is widely considered their best TREK work. Had Dan Abnett as one of the writers, and of course he helped revitalize Marvel cosmic in the 00s.


    One of the comic original characters, Nurse Gabrielle Carlotti, was even in Discovery's The Enterprise War novel.
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  5. #590
    Extraordinary Member Jokerz79's Avatar
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    So far I think SNW is a good show.

    But yeah I'm one of those fans who needed to place it in another timeline for my own head Canon to make it completely enjoyable.

    The 3 major continuity issues I have with the show are the following and this is how it could had been handled to make it fit Canon.

    1: The look of the ship. They simply could had called it a refitted war variant.

    2: A Khan serving on the crew. This makes no sense when you take in consideration space seed. They should had made her another race maybe Betazoid. A Betazoid as Head of Security would be interesting they could sense hostility.

    3: M'Benga as Chief Medical Officer makes no sense given Galileo 7. It should had been Phillip Boyce. I have no issue with race swapping Boyce and personally would had loved seeing Tony Todd in the role keep it in the Trek Family.

    Uhura and Chapel don't bother me because it doesn't contradict their past Canon.

    Now because of my head canon I can over look these but I understand fans frustations because it feels like we care more about the history of the franchise than the people making it.

  6. #591
    MYTH SMITH ∞ !!! G. Boney's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Powerboy View Post
    In the first episode, Spock seems a bit, um, emotional, and Vulcans only mating in Ponn Farr seems to have been completely ignored.
    Vulcans HAVE to mate during Ponn Farr, but that's not the only time they do, according to people who are more knowledgeable about Trek than me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jokerz79 View Post
    M'Benga goes from Chief Medical Officer to Physician and never mentions his years of service with Spock during Galileo 7.
    I've seen very few eps of TOS, and those were during my childhood. What is the reason this would need to be mentioned?
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  7. #592
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    I'm liking it so far, and for the canon wrinkles, I like to think, from the very beginning, that these are the stories of the Starship Enterprise.

    They're all stories. Details might change between tellings. So the ship is shinier and has actual computers and not blinky lights on cardboard boxes. So Klingons now have bumpy heads and don't look like Mongols in heavy eyeliner. It's all good, for me. But then I grew up a fan of comics, and various comic book characters have changed pretty radically since their introductions in the 50s-70s to today. As long as the new shinier Star Trek shows of today still keep faith with the theme and tone of what Gene Roddenberry gave us (which Strange New Worlds, IMO, is doing, and Picard, on the other hand, is not doing so well), I'm fine with some details upgraded for 21st century special effects and storytelling sensibilities.

  8. #593
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    Quote Originally Posted by Powerboy View Post
    In the first episode, Spock seems a bit, um, emotional, and Vulcans only mating in Ponn Farr seems to have been completely ignored.
    Quote Originally Posted by G. Boney View Post
    Vulcans HAVE to mate during Ponn Farr, but that's not the only time they do, according to people who are more knowledgeable about Trek than me.
    D.C. Fontana who was a TOS writer and the continuity story editor explained pon farr. She said that it’s not the only time Vulcans feel romantic attraction, sexual desire, or engage in sexual activity:


    Vulcans mate normally any time they want to. However, every seven years you do the ritual, the ceremony, the whole thing. The biological urge. You must, but any other time is any other emotion – humanoid emotion – when you're in love. When you want to, you know when the urge is there, you do it. This every-seven-years business was taken too literally by too many people who don't stop and understand. We didn't mean it only every seven years. I mean, every seven years would be a little bad, and it would not explain the Vulcans of many different ages which are not seven years apart.

  9. #594
    Extraordinary Member Jokerz79's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by G. Boney View Post
    Vulcans HAVE to mate during Ponn Farr, but that's not the only time they do, according to people who are more knowledgeable about Trek than me.



    I've seen very few eps of TOS, and those were during my childhood. What is the reason this would need to be mentioned?
    Wrong episode sorry haven't watch TOS in a while. But M'Benga being CMO is still a contradiction to TOS because one why was he demoted? Now they can explain this later but no one not Spock, Chapel, or McCoy on TOS ever treated M'Benga like he had ever been CMO of the Ship.

  10. #595
    Astonishing Member MoneySpider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jokerz79 View Post
    Even the Starfleet Insignia used in everything for all Starfleet after TOS was originally the Enterprise's unique design and every ship/starbase had their own insignia.
    I read somewhere years ago that after Kirk's original and historic 5-year mission in the Prime Universe, Starfleet decided to honor him and his entire crew by having all of Starfleet adopt the insignia of the U.S.S. Enterprise crew (I don't recall where I read that, though).
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  11. #596
    My Face Is Up Here Powerboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by G. Boney View Post
    Vulcans HAVE to mate during Ponn Farr, but that's not the only time they do, according to people who are more knowledgeable about Trek than me.



    I've seen very few eps of TOS, and those were during my childhood. What is the reason this would need to be mentioned?
    Been a long while. But I think M'Benga only appeared in a couple of episodes of TOS. I suppose he could have been there for a short while to help out and wasn't going to be there long enough to be CMO again.

    Oh I readily grant that it doesn't stand up 100% to the TOS episodes but it could work.
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  12. #597
    My Face Is Up Here Powerboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sutekh View Post
    I'm liking it so far, and for the canon wrinkles, I like to think, from the very beginning, that these are the stories of the Starship Enterprise.

    They're all stories. Details might change between tellings. So the ship is shinier and has actual computers and not blinky lights on cardboard boxes. So Klingons now have bumpy heads and don't look like Mongols in heavy eyeliner. It's all good, for me. But then I grew up a fan of comics, and various comic book characters have changed pretty radically since their introductions in the 50s-70s to today. As long as the new shinier Star Trek shows of today still keep faith with the theme and tone of what Gene Roddenberry gave us (which Strange New Worlds, IMO, is doing, and Picard, on the other hand, is not doing so well), I'm fine with some details upgraded for 21st century special effects and storytelling sensibilities.
    I'm okay with pretending the TOS ship didn't have flashing red and yellow lights and was more a 21st century than 1960s technical concept of the future neither of which will likely have any accuracy by the real 23rd century. OR I can pretend the current show does have blinking lights.

    It seems SNW is keeping thematically with Roddenberry's intentions. I certainly can take it as more truly a canon prequel to TOS than I can take "Picard" as a canon sequel to TNG.
    Power with Girl is better.

  13. #598
    Ultimate Member ChrisIII's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jokerz79 View Post
    So far I think SNW is a good show.

    But yeah I'm one of those fans who needed to place it in another timeline for my own head Canon to make it completely enjoyable.

    The 3 major continuity issues I have with the show are the following and this is how it could had been handled to make it fit Canon.

    1: The look of the ship. They simply could had called it a refitted war variant.

    2: A Khan serving on the crew. This makes no sense when you take in consideration space seed. They should had made her another race maybe Betazoid. A Betazoid as Head of Security would be interesting they could sense hostility.

    3: M'Benga as Chief Medical Officer makes no sense given Galileo 7. It should had been Phillip Boyce. I have no issue with race swapping Boyce and personally would had loved seeing Tony Todd in the role keep it in the Trek Family.

    Uhura and Chapel don't bother me because it doesn't contradict their past Canon.

    Now because of my head canon I can over look these but I understand fans frustations because it feels like we care more about the history of the franchise than the people making it.

    It's possible that Khan did have offspring before his exile. I don't think it's ever implied that Marla was necessarily his first life/love. It's possible Khan's children weren't considered as guilty as he and his followers were, and were allowed to remain on Earth, or had their own colony ships seperate from Botany Bay. It'll probably be explained later.
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  14. #599
    Ultimate Member ChrisIII's Avatar
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    Should bring up that although DS9 didn't change any of the TOS designs for Trials and Tribulations, it's important to realize they were trying to match to the old footage, which was kind of the novelty of the whole episode in the first place.

    Enterprise's Mirror universe two parter which used TOS style sets and outfits is a bit harder to explain though, as although the Defiant was in the mirror universe it came from the future TOS prime timeline.
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  15. #600
    Mighty Member C_Miller's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by James Cameron View Post
    It simply can't. The showrunners and producers say it does because it's all leading up to Kirk and co's Trek, but there are way too many contradictions that can't be overlooked. I agree with your last statement though.
    Way too many contradictions that YOU can’t overlook. That’s the key to my point.

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