Star Trek: Strange New Worlds

[ChrisIII]

And yet they did two great episodes around that. (Look at it this way; imagine if Rogue One had completely reimagined the visual look of Star Wars; would you be able to comprehend why some people would find there being a disconnect for insisting that it was the same world?)

This was actually a criticism of the prequels, mostly The Phantom Menace; although the later two prequels showed more of the shiny technology of that film starting to change to a more OT aesthetic.

[CosmiComic]

This was actually a criticism of the prequels, mostly The Phantom Menace; although the later two prequels showed more of the shiny technology of that film starting to change to a more OT aesthetic.

Of all the things to actually criticize the prequels for, some people said that. Wow

[WebLurker]

Except the look of Star Wars was never tied to the technology of a specific period and wasn't ever focused on in the films, and Lucas did that specifically so it wouldn't look dated but remain classic.

Okay, but the point is is that the franchise never went all revisionist on itself on that point (Rogue One even recreated the most outdated elements with zero concessions to modern sensibilities). I will agree that, in part due to being a film series, the original Star Wars films have aged better, but the point is more about how reimagining the franchise can undercut the suspension of disbelief.

And the episodes that copied the look to the tee were fun...but they were pure fan service and that kind of thing wouldn't work in the long term for an actual series that's trying to capture any of the general public.

I do get that. In practice, the only think I have a huge problem with is where the new designs contradict stuff (like the reimagined Enterprise, which is used in a timeframe when we know for a fact that it was still in the "Cage" configuration). Never had a problem with the new ship classes looking more modern and theoretically coexisting around the more minimalist TOS stuff, but that's me.

This was actually a criticism of the prequels, mostly The Phantom Menace; although the later two prequels showed more of the shiny technology of that film starting to change to a more OT aesthetic.

Okay. Personally, since the movies were in different timeframes and different parts of the Galaxy, I didn't see a problem with that.

[ChrisIII]

Yeah, it kind of can be explained a bit as well. A good chunk of the OT takes place on backwater worlds as well-and Tatooine in the PT isn't all that different from the OT anyway.


It's also been waved at the Alien prequels as well, but I think it's mainly pointed out that Prometheus was built by a super-billionare (or future equivalent) while Nostromo is mainly a cargo vessel, and Sulaco is military and we didn't see much of it's interiors anyway.

[DrNewGod]

Comparing the tech designs of ST and SW is apples and oranges. SW doesn't have the burden of being a projection from the technology that we experience as ST does. SW is explicitly the tech of a galaxy far, far away, a long time ago, so it doesn't matter if it makes sense based on what we see around us now.

[thwhtGuardian]

Okay, but the point is is that the franchise never went all revisionist on itself on that point (Rogue One even recreated the most outdated elements with zero concessions to modern sensibilities). I will agree that, in part due to being a film series, the original Star Wars films have aged better, but the point is more about how reimagining the franchise can undercut the suspension of disbelief.



I do get that. In practice, the only think I have a huge problem with is where the new designs contradict stuff (like the reimagined Enterprise, which is used in a timeframe when we know for a fact that it was still in the "Cage" configuration). Never had a problem with the new ship classes looking more modern and theoretically coexisting around the more minimalist TOS stuff, but that's me.



Okay. Personally, since the movies were in different timeframes and different parts of the Galaxy, I didn't see a problem with that.

It doesn't contradict stuff though...because its fiction. Once you accept that its just an old television show and that the technology looks the way it is not because that's what the future is going to be but because that's the best they could do with their budget at the time then any contradictions vanish. It's only if you get tied up in the minutia of thinking in universe explanations are important that the continuity issues arise.

Buying into the world is all well and good if it enhances your viewing experience...but if it starts being detrimental then what's the point?

[DrNewGod]

It doesn't contradict stuff though...because its fiction. Once you accept that its just an old television show and that the technology looks the way it is not because that's what the future is going to be but because that's the best they could do with their budget at the time then any contradictions vanish. It's only if you get tied up in the minutia of thinking in universe explanations are important that the continuity issues arise.

Buying into the world is all well and good if it enhances your viewing experience...but if it starts being detrimental then what's the point?

Very, very, well said.

[WebLurker]

It doesn't contradict stuff though...because its fiction. Once you accept that its just an old television show and that the technology looks the way it is not because that's what the future is going to be but because that's the best they could do with their budget at the time then any contradictions vanish. It's only if you get tied up in the minutia of thinking in universe explanations are important that the continuity issues arise.

Buying into the world is all well and good if it enhances your viewing experience...but if it starts being detrimental then what's the point?

Note that I did say that I did like the show. Please keep that in mind. I'm sick of the "DSC ruined Star Trek" fan circles. One can like something even if they don't like everything.

However, in the case of DSC, it heavily ties itself to the shows that came before, to the point that it's sometimes counting on us viewing it with that context. They have a literal sequel episode ("If Memory Serves"), dozens of Easter eggs and call backs (referencing the ENT pilot in the season 1 finale, preexisting Klingon factions, TOS characters appearing), you name it. Early TNG was far more standalone from the previous franchise installments than this was.

The show itself also made a point of trying to reconcile some of the more notable discrepancies in the franchise (like the reimagining of the Klingon makeup and the holographic communications). So, if the writing of the show was was designed to weld it to TOS and have us bring information from that show to how we processed this one and went out of their way to fix continuity errors within the show itself (including some purely visual ones that where originally committed with the idea if it just being a cosmetic change), that creates something of a double standard in that the show asks us to use TOS to get everything out of it, but uses it optionally. (Long story short, the revisionist take breaks the rules that DSC is built on, if that makes any sense. Not a crime, but if DSC was written to stand with TOS, then it's fair to point out that when it ignores TOS, it's undermining its own foundation).

Agree or disagree, but does this make any sense?

[thwhtGuardian]

Note that I did say that I did like the show. Please keep that in mind. I'm sick of the "DSC ruined Star Trek" fan circles. One can like something even if they don't like everything.

However, in the case of DSC, it heavily ties itself to the shows that came before, to the point that it's sometimes counting on us viewing it with that context. They have a literal sequel episode ("If Memory Serves"), dozens of Easter eggs and call backs (referencing the ENT pilot in the season 1 finale, preexisting Klingon factions, TOS characters appearing), you name it. Early TNG was far more standalone from the previous franchise installments than this was.

The show itself also made a point of trying to reconcile some of the more notable discrepancies in the franchise (like the reimagining of the Klingon makeup and the holographic communications). So, if the writing of the show was was designed to weld it to TOS and have us bring information from that show to how we processed this one and went out of their way to fix continuity errors within the show itself (including some purely visual ones that where originally committed with the idea if it just being a cosmetic change), that creates something of a double standard in that the show asks us to use TOS to get everything out of it, but uses it optionally. (Long story short, the revisionist take breaks the rules that DSC is built on, if that makes any sense. Not a crime, but if DSC was written to stand with TOS, then it's fair to point out that when it ignores TOS, it's undermining its own foundation).

Agree or disagree, but does this make any sense?

Doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me, no.

Like I said, it keeps the look where it counts: the ships still have that distinctive saucer shape and the nacelles are still there and even the sounds of the tricorders and beaming up are the same but the rest? Not important. Reel to reel memory, punch cards, and analog control computers with zero graphic interface just don't belong in the future. Period.
And there's no double standard for using past stories but no keeping the out dated tech either, the stories themselves aren't dated, the writing was always fantastic so there's no problem with tying into that.

[WebLurker]

Doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me, no.

Like I said, it keeps the look where it counts: the ships still have that distinctive saucer shape and the nacelles are still there and even the sounds of the tricorders and beaming up are the same but the rest? Not important. Reel to reel memory, punch cards, and analog control computers with zero graphic interface just don't belong in the future. Period.
And there's no double standard for using past stories but no keeping the out dated tech either, the stories themselves aren't dated, the writing was always fantastic so there's no problem with tying into that.

Not sure how else to explain it, but I guess I'm way more accepting of the franchise's inherent "Zeerust Canon" (as TV Tropes puts it) and all that. Fair enough if that doesn't bother you. IDIC and all that.

[Captain Craig]

Zeerust Canon....how does TVTropes define that? This is something they came up with?

[thwhtGuardian]

Not sure how else to explain it, but I guess I'm way more accepting of the franchise's inherent "Zeerust Canon" (as TV Tropes puts it) and all that. Fair enough if that doesn't bother you. IDIC and all that.

And if it enhanced the viewing experience that'd be great...but when it doesn't enhance it then it just seems weird to not just let it go because the answer for why the technology doesn't line up isn't just obvious but it doesn't actually change the story in any meaningful way.

That the technology looks like its from the 60's isn't actually a plot point in universe so what does losing that fidelity really change?

[DrNewGod]

And if it enhanced the viewing experience that'd be great...but when it doesn't enhance it then it just seems weird to not just let it go because the answer for why the technology doesn't line up isn't just obvious but it doesn't actually change the story in any meaningful way.

That the technology looks like its from the 60's isn't actually a plot point in universe so what does losing that fidelity really change?

I'm waiting for the day that somebody techno-wizards all the TOS sets and props behind something more DISC like. The Torch And Pitchfork Party resulting should be something to behold.

[thwhtGuardian]

I doubt that will happen, I read somewhere that the updating they did for the remastered DVDs was not only incredibly time consuming but also crazy expensive so it's not likely we'll see that kind of project again.

[Castle]

I'm waiting for the day that somebody techno-wizards all the TOS sets and props behind something more DISC like. The Torch And Pitchfork Party resulting should be something to behold.

They should do more techno wizards stuff with TNG. It was the better show. TOS no matter how they update and upgrade it, it will always still look very 60s to me.