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  1. #76
    Chad Jar Jar Pinsir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebLurker View Post
    And Trekkies are generally more sane then Star Wars "fans"...
    IDK man, they're both pretty bad and often, the bad elements are the same people operating in both fandoms.
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  2. #77
    Ultimate Member WebLurker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinsir View Post
    IDK man, they're both pretty bad and often, the bad elements are the same people operating in both fandoms.
    Okay, fair enough, Midnight's Edge is basically Fandom Menace for Star Trek (except they they go for "well-spoken sophist" instead of "butt-hurt, entitled fanboy" as their visual image).

    Thing is, it seems like knowledge of the bigotry infecting the Star Wars fanbase seems to be more common knowledge (Fandom Menace is kinda mainstream in terms of online stuff), while Trekkies seem to have more of a reputation for their problems being in refusing to accept new stuff that doesn't fit their personal image of the franchise (look up that Ex Astris Scientia fan site to see the fall of a fan into the trap played out in real time), not so much racism and whatnot.

    Not sure if that makes any sense.
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  3. #78
    Extraordinary Member Cyke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebLurker View Post
    The fact that it's getting a third season tells us that it's doing, at worst, just fine. (Also, Disney Star Wars projects have nothing to do with CBS Star Trek ones).
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremi View Post
    It's always a delight to come into a Star Trek thread expecting for potentially some more news but instead seeing people having meltdowns about "Not my Star Trek!"

    Christ. When being obnoxious is a fanbases only character trait...
    Oh, at this rate, if CBS All Access revealed its ratings to justify a 3rd season and its budget to afford another Trek show, those would be considered fake news by Trekkies who want failure when, the reality is, it would be foolish to keep pouring money into a sinking ship for an illusion. That's just bad business practice if you're an indie studio or a decades old network. If the ship's not sinking, then it's doing okay financially at the very least.

  4. #79
    BANNED Starter Set's Avatar
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    I'm not the biggest fan of Discovery, i find it all pretty silly for being honest if watchable, but that SNW thingie is picking my curiosity.

    To continue your little discussion about the fandom, i would admit that a lot of ST fans have a pretty rigid view on what this franchise is supposed to be about but also, it seems to me that many tv writers have some problems with the very basic concept of Star Trek.

    Yes, mankind is different in that universe. Just accept it lol and stop trying to make it as generic a space show as you can.

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starter Set View Post
    To continue your little discussion about the fandom, i would admit that a lot of ST fans have a pretty rigid view on what this franchise is supposed to be about but also, it seems to me that many tv writers have some problems with the very basic concept of Star Trek.

    Yes, mankind is different in that universe. Just accept it lol and stop trying to make it as generic a space show as you can.
    Gene had a pretty utopian vision of what was possible for humanity, and a lot of people are too invested in a 'everybody sucks and is out for themselves' mindset (since it provides an excuse for them being selfish jerks) to tolerate the idea of a future where stuff like screwing each other over for money, or fighting over race or religion, is a big part of daily life among humans. (And even then, Gene only kicked the can down the road, with fantasy races and philosophies taking the place of the 'Other' that we use to divide ourselves.)

    One notable difference is that the enemies on Trek, be they Klingons or Borg or whatever, aren't generally thinly-veiled metaphors for Nazis, and so rooting with some elements of Klingon society (for example) isn't quite as problematic / attractive to white supremacists as the Stormtrooper fans can get.

  6. #81
    Extraordinary Member Cyke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sutekh View Post
    Gene had a pretty utopian vision of what was possible for humanity, and a lot of people are too invested in a 'everybody sucks and is out for themselves' mindset (since it provides an excuse for them being selfish jerks) to tolerate the idea of a future where stuff like screwing each other over for money, or fighting over race or religion, is a big part of daily life among humans. (And even then, Gene only kicked the can down the road, with fantasy races and philosophies taking the place of the 'Other' that we use to divide ourselves.)

    One notable difference is that the enemies on Trek, be they Klingons or Borg or whatever, aren't generally thinly-veiled metaphors for Nazis, and so rooting with some elements of Klingon society (for example) isn't quite as problematic / attractive to white supremacists as the Stormtrooper fans can get.
    While it's true that Gene had a utopian vision for humanity, even TOS/TNG S1 was full of selfish humans out for themselves, and it manifested in a number of corrupt admirals and bureaucrats. Yes, they were to show that such mindsets wouldn't hold up in a utopia, but the fact that they existed likely meant that while he envisioned utopia, he didn't envision total elimination.

    I did like DS9's approach to utopia, deconstructing it in order to strengthen it. Bashir was too cozy in utopia and wanted adventure, but was then called out by Kira for his privilege -- there are folks that can't choose the safety of utopia. Benteen willing to impose martial law on Earth to control utopia was a betrayal of that utopia.

    Picard was so, so close to getting to that point. If one of the main sources of discord was Picard and the Federation disagreeing on humanitarian aid for the Romulans, and Picard sticking to his guns about utopia dictating helping them out, there needed to be real counterpoint to the Romulan conspirators, then. And showing the androids and the x-Bs having positive first contact as a result of wanting to help the Romulans would have helped drive home the point that sometimes utopia needs a reminder of itself. Instead, the show got too overstuffed with too many machinations and an unnecessary space god.

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyke View Post
    While it's true that Gene had a utopian vision for humanity, even TOS/TNG S1 was full of selfish humans out for themselves, and it manifested in a number of corrupt admirals and bureaucrats.
    True, true.

    (And I cherry-picked this one sentence because it amused me how it seemed like every season of Next Gen, we had a new 'corrupt Admiral' behind the scenes of something going on for an episode-of-the-week. Every time an Admiral appeared on the viewer, it was a new face, and half the time, secretly the bad guy! Seriously, don't they vet these people? Or is it just, 'Okay, you've been here for 20 years. Here's your Admiral's pip, and corner office, and burgeoning conspiracy.')

  8. #83
    Extraordinary Member Cyke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sutekh View Post
    True, true.

    (And I cherry-picked this one sentence because it amused me how it seemed like every season of Next Gen, we had a new 'corrupt Admiral' behind the scenes of something going on for an episode-of-the-week. Every time an Admiral appeared on the viewer, it was a new face, and half the time, secretly the bad guy! Seriously, don't they vet these people? Or is it just, 'Okay, you've been here for 20 years. Here's your Admiral's pip, and corner office, and burgeoning conspiracy.')
    LOL, very true. On the same lines, I don't think I agree with the theory that Janeway was made an admiral because of her corruption or to keep her away from a starship, but nonetheless, I really enjoy those theories all the same.

  9. #84
    Ultimate Member WebLurker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sutekh View Post
    True, true.

    (And I cherry-picked this one sentence because it amused me how it seemed like every season of Next Gen, we had a new 'corrupt Admiral' behind the scenes of something going on for an episode-of-the-week. Every time an Admiral appeared on the viewer, it was a new face, and half the time, secretly the bad guy! Seriously, don't they vet these people? Or is it just, 'Okay, you've been here for 20 years. Here's your Admiral's pip, and corner office, and burgeoning conspiracy.')
    Have a copy of one of the RPGs based on the franchise and there's a note in the fluff that, while corrupt flag officers make the history books, the majority of them are honest and capable. (Granted, we only see narrow slices of the Star Trek universe in each series, so it's not like we get the full picture.
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  10. #85
    Ultimate Member ChrisIII's Avatar
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    I think the corrupt admiral thing extended beyond TNG season one though (And the 'corrupt admirals' were, remember, controlled by those parasite creatures, apart from Jameson who was mostly misguided).


    Satie (Drumhead) Pressman (Pegasus) Doughetry (Insurrection). Robert Maxwell, like Jameson, seemed to be somewhat misguided so I wouldn't say he was corrupt.
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  11. #86
    Extraordinary Member Cyke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisIII View Post
    I think the corrupt admiral thing extended beyond TNG season one though (And the 'corrupt admirals' were, remember, controlled by those parasite creatures, apart from Jameson who was mostly misguided).


    Satie (Drumhead) Pressman (Pegasus) Doughetry (Insurrection). Robert Maxwell, like Jameson, seemed to be somewhat misguided so I wouldn't say he was corrupt.
    I don't think anyone said they didn't extend past TNG S1. I only chose that as a benchmark because of Roddenberry's gradually decreasing level of involvement, despite his protests (and where TNG S1 was the time when he had the most influence post-TMP). He was still the chief visionary architect for TOS and TNG, setting the blueprint to have the contradiction of corrupt admirals in utopia in the first place.

  12. #87
    Boisterously Confused
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    It always interested me that Roddenberry wasn't afraid to film an improved but imperfect future in TOS, but insisted on a utopia in TNG. IIRC, the post-TOS Federation didn't begin showing some tattered edges until Roddenberry "decided" to relinquish a day-to-day role.

  13. #88
    Northern Lights Beaubier's Avatar
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    I just hope it’s good. For me, Picard was a letdown and I’m still struggling to get through Discovery.

  14. #89
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