Star Trek: Strange New Worlds

[ChrisIII]

We kind of rarely see non-warrior Klingons as well with the exception of maybe the religious ones in TNG and Discovery. There was a Phase II script that would've dealt with different Klingon classes.


Makes me wonder, if Phase II had gone to series, would they have changed the Klingon makeup as well? Don't think Phase II would've had as much money as TMP did (Although I think part of Phase II was counted in the TMP budget since a lot of it used sets from that which were 'upgraded' to film quality).

[thwhtGuardian]

I always see the TMP-style Klingons as the "Wolverine" Klingons due to Mark Lenard's look there.

It was also used in a lot of TOS merchandise from that point until at least the early 90s, even after other Klingons showed up in TNG and the later movies. Konom from the DC comics for example, and Shane Johnson's guidebooks (Which pretty much got contradicted by pretty much everything but were based on TOS's more elastic canon at that point)


Kind of Maltz and Torg from III that gave us the "long hair" Klingon look.

Similarly I always refer to it as the wolfman era as it reminded me of the makeup from the Universal classic. I can definitely get behind different ethnicities too

[G. Boney]

Regarding the Klingons, in my head I've just chalked the different looks up to different ethnic groups.

Except for TOS of course, we know those Klingons were genetically altered thanks to Enterprise.

I'd stopped watching Enterprise before that episode, but I've always felt it was unnecessary. They should've just left it with the explanation Worf gave on DS9. "We don't discuss it with outsiders".

I do agree on the different ethnic groups. Similar to what they revealed in Picard season 1 with the ridged forehead and non-ridged forehead Romulans. It would've been cool to someday see Klingons of all the various looks on screen together.

[Gray Lensman]

I wasn't aware Strange New Worlds was bringing back this look:



While the armor the Klingons wore in the Motion Picture did pretty much become the standard garb for all Klingons the makeup has hardly remained unchanged.

Heck, Worf's look changed pretty much season to season:
Attachment 132178
People are certainly free not to like the latest Klingon design, or even to believe that there was no reason to mess with it further...but to say that it wasn't continually changed overtime whether it was to fit the budgets of the particular show or movie or aesthetics of the creators on a project just seems objectively wrong to me.

For me personally, I'm mostly fine with simply accepting that make up changes over time and have never needed an in universe explanation. That said, though I never had a problem with the changes I do like the avenue that was opened up by Enterprise with the augment virus and I feel like that if you did want an in universe explanation you could piggy back off that and say the Discovery look was an attempt at Klingon's using genetic engineering to bring themselves back to their roots and that the more alien look we saw in Disovery was them going too far back and so they continued to tinker with it. And then in TOS what we see is a faction of Klingons who didn't go in for the gene tampering gaining control, hence the lack of ridges.

Is it complicated? Yeah, which is why I'm for accepting the reality of the situation, but I do think an entertaining story could be made of it if they wanted to explain it in universe.

In addition to aesthetics changing a design over time, there's also at least 3 other possible drivers. First, comfort for the actor wearing the makeup, second, refining the look to speed up the application process, and 3rd, making the process cheaper. It's not as big a deal when the characters only show up once or twice per season, but for someone who's there every single episode, shaving 40 minutes off the application process and 20 minutes from the removal creates an additional hour of availability for scenes per shooting day. And such refinements likely take trial and error that's only possible with a regular.

[thwhtGuardian]

In addition to aesthetics changing a design over time, there's also at least 3 other possible drivers. First, comfort for the actor wearing the makeup, second, refining the look to speed up the application process, and 3rd, making the process cheaper. It's not as big a deal when the characters only show up once or twice per season, but for someone who's there every single episode, shaving 40 minutes off the application process and 20 minutes from the removal creates an additional hour of availability for scenes per shooting day. And such refinements likely take trial and error that's only possible with a regular.

That's definitely part of what went on with Worf, and it was definitely for the better as I loved the look he had going into DS9 which became pretty standard by that point.

[ChrisIII]

Kind of wonder what was up with the padded/leather Klingon armor in Star Trek VI. Think "real world" wise it would've been uncomfortable for Plummer and Warner (Also why they have unconventional Klingon hairstyles/looks) to wear the metal versions or some safety issue.

Think the 'fanon' explanation is that it's kind of a Klingon dress uniform but I think some of the Klingons in the trial scene also have the look too, but maybe they are also VIPS?

[Grunty]

We kind of rarely see non-warrior Klingons as well with the exception of maybe the religious ones in TNG and Discovery. There was a Phase II script that would've dealt with different Klingon classes.

Makes me wonder, if Phase II had gone to series, would they have changed the Klingon makeup as well? Don't think Phase II would've had as much money as TMP did (Although I think part of Phase II was counted in the TMP budget since a lot of it used sets from that which were 'upgraded' to film quality).

The subject of non-warrior klingons reminds me to a little joke, where someone reads the report of a klingon scientist who presents their discoveries as "mighty battles" against ignroance and the unknown (or something similar sounding).

So basicly implying that the warrior society of the klingons works by presenting everything as battle or struggle that has to be won, hence anyone can earn "honor" by doing their jobs even if they don't directly involve war.

Which raises the question if there is or was actualy an overlooked or forgotten alternative to Sto'Vo'Kor where those who lived honorable but didn't die in battle go?

Like what in the (modern reconstruction of) norse mythology Fólkvangr is to Valhalla. Only it's either left unmentioned in Star Trek material or was even lost over the centuries in klingon culture.

[JT221]

Which raises the question if there is or was actualy an overlooked or forgotten alternative to Sto'Vo'Kor where those who lived honorable but didn't die in battle go?

Like what in the (modern reconstruction of) norse mythology Fólkvangr is to Valhalla. Only it's either left unmentioned in Star Trek material or was even lost over the centuries in klingon culture.

It's actually a little amazing this has not yet really been explored as a concept. That would be fascinating, I think.

So looking forward to the second season of Strange New Worlds.

[ChrisIII]

The term the Black Fleet is kind of used a lot in Trek EU including works before StoVoKor.

Canon-wise it's mentioned in Discovery but in both cases it's from dying in battle and mentioned alongside Sto Vo Kor so it's kind of the same thing?


Worf also destroys a ship in the name of Jadzia to get her entry so maybe Klingons figure the soul will make it if a feat is dedicated to a non-battle death?

[JT221]

Mentioned in the overall Trek thread but seems like a good place for it, too. YouTube is streaming the first season of Strange New Worlds right now for free, for anyone interested: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...cnPptGnPcozCQX

[Beantownbrown]

[Sutekh]

We kind of rarely see non-warrior Klingons as well with the exception of maybe the religious ones in TNG and Discovery. There was a Phase II script that would've dealt with different Klingon classes.

It would be neat to see some Klingons in less stabby roles on their ships, not just in their society. What's life like for a Klingon engineer, or communications officer? Do Klingons even have doctors, or is that an auxiliary role dumped on the professional targ handler? (If he can keep a pig healthy until we decide to eat it, he can patch up a wounded Klingon enough to get him back in the fight!) I kind of feel like Klingons by nature are less likely to have 'sickbays' on their ships, especially the relatively small birds of prey, or a full-time medical crew or doctor, so much as 'Bob knows some basic first aid, and Joe worked with bioweapons, so he has some basic biochemical knowledge, and *everyone* knows enough about xenobiology to know where best to stab someone of six different races...'

I vaguely recall a Klingon chef on the promenade of DS9, but he was more of a background character, and we didn't really get an idea whether or not other Klingons respected his career choice (or perhaps that was his retirement job, after a life of warrior-ing?).

In any case, I imagine that any Klingon role has a sort of warrior mentality. A Klingon engineer might see herself as 'hunting the prey' during system diagnosis, and 'fighting the flaw,' and when she fixes the malfunction she thinks of it as a victory against a worthy foe, sort of anthropomorphizing the malfunction and casting it as an enemy to be grappled with and overcome. And in this way, perhaps she sees herself as much a warrior as anyone else.

Similarly, it *seems* like their warrior caste / culture is a sausage party, all dudes and few ladies (whose only role of note seems to be 'lady of a great house,' which they only get if all the men are dead, and obviously not every Klingon woman can be 'lady of a great house'). They are less so than the Ferengi, obviously, but I would not be surprised to see Starfleet Academy flooded with hundreds and hundreds of applications from Klingon (and Ferengi!) women who are frustrated by the glass ceilings of their respective cultures and want to go somewhere where they can pilot a starship, or even *captain* a starship (or, in the latter case, wear pants and handle their own money).

[ChrisIII]

Mara was a science officer for Kang; I think both Torg and Vixis from the movies handled a lot of their ships communications and were probably also first officers. All of course still had the warrior mentality I think, although Torg seemed a bit more level-headed than Kurge (Similar to how Joachim played a similar role for Khan)


Chang mentions that the ship's doctor was a casualty of the attack on Kronos one.

[Styles]

Why Jonathan Frakes Was The Only Choice To Direct The Strange New Worlds And Lower Decks Crossover

[ChrisIII]

According to interviews Kirk and Spock will meet for the first time this season, kind of interested in how that will turn out. In WHERE NO ONE HAS GONE BEFORE they were already working together but their friendship didn't really form until later in season one of TOS.