Star Trek: Strange New Worlds

[Jokerz79]

Your treaty idea doesn't work for the personal/ emotional songs. There'd be no character growth through the music.

And I get some may not like this episode, so have no issues with that. For me it was pretty fun, though!

The personal growth thing was another strike for me because it was so obvious it wanted to be "Once More, with Feeling" and failing IMO. The ultimate sin to writing for me is making me think of something better. This whole episode I kept thinking I'd rather be watching "Once More, with Feeling" vs this.

[80sbaby]

The personal growth thing was another strike for me because it was so obvious it wanted to be "Once More, with Feeling" and failing IMO. The ultimate sin to writing for me is making me think of something better. This whole episode I kept thinking I'd rather be watching "Once More, with Feeling" vs this.

Well that's a staple of musicals in general. OMwF was merely utilizing the format, just as this episode did. Whedon didn't originate that trope.

[Pascal]

This is completely wrong and it's funny considering Whedon's biggest criticisms are in how he wrote female characters.

It's also weird for you to say "no it's not." What exactly are you even disagreeing with here?

What? are you kidding?

If you think Whedon's criticism was how he wrote female characters then you know nothing jon snow.

Buffy excelled because whedon knew how to write great female characters. whedon was a 90s feminist since I don't know how the word is defined today because in today's term, all men are clowns even Spock. Spock ? we are talking about.

Chapel is no Buffy Summers and Ethan Peck's Spock is not as cool or has the depth of Spike.

Call whedon anything but saying he wrote female characters poor is just a huge lie. Also Whedon is talented as a creator. Buffy was a masterpiece show, SNW is not. it is generic sci-fi with CW love arc that feels way benneth Spock.

I don't even know who this Chapel chick is? She is nothing like TOS Chapel and I think the reason why some trek fans may be ignoring that is because they have narrated her as a hot blonde chick. In TOS, Chapel pines for Spock and he does not care or like her back. It makes no sense why she will dump him here but the writing of this show has the same awful bad 2010s feminist writing of last jedi that they make the female characters do things that make no sense in theory with the canon story but is all good because they need to show the women strong and always in control of the story narrative at the expanse of the male characters.

[80sbaby]

You're right. I must have imagined all the critiques about how he wrote Willow, Tara, Cordelia and Black Widow.

And I'm not sure what men have been shown as weak on this show. Spock certainly hadn't been. Conflicted, sure but that's not the same as weak. But considering the number of buzzwords you used, I'm not really going to take your posts on this matter seriously.

[Pascal]

Once More with Feeling worked in universe because the Buffyverse was a universe where magic existed.

I like musicals it was a tradition for me and my mum to watch Easter Parade on Easter. Also, in universe this could have worked like a negotiating a treaty with a species who only accepted spoken word thru song. But because of some anomaly people breaking out into full dance numbers just felt like it didn't fit in the Trek universe to me.

One point in its favor was hearing Kirk talk about Carol.

Yes, I was about to say just that. Buffy had magic.

I will never do a full star trek musical episode not even if the excuse was Q causing it.

Somethings should be left out of some series. It will make more sense for star trek to be star wars for like one episode than to do a full musical of star trek. Also when you add that the creators of this show are mediocre talents. You have a fail.

Frankly I cannot believe how some trek fans say SNW is the best trek we have had since the 90s. NOT.

[Pascal]

You're right. I must have imagined all the critiques about how he wrote Willow, Tara, Cordelia and Black Widow.

And I'm not sure what men have been shown as weak on this show. Spock certainly hadn't been. Conflicted, sure but that's not the same as weak. But considering the number of buzzwords you used, I'm not really going to take your posts on this matter seriously.

Tara was a great female character and one of the most powerful characters on the show because she had quiet kind of Power that could be effective even with Buffy in a way Giles never could. This is why Buffy confided with her about Spike.

The Cordy issue was bad, however those were external issues. The actress and whedon did not get along. Cordy was written poorly for Angel season 4 but she did get a good send off in season 5.

Black Widow is not a Buffy character.

Spock is a clown and is nothing like his TOS version. Quinto Spock is closer to TOS Spock more than SNW Spock, despite Quinto Spock been an alternate version.
There is no way Spock is meant to mop of chapel or tpring, two women he rejected in TOS and found term intolerable. the show has flipped it, but if you also notice the show also flipped the women's personalities as I said, can anyone explain how snw chapel acts nothing like tos chapel?

[James Cameron]

What? are you kidding?

If you think Whedon's criticism was how he wrote female characters then you know nothing jon snow.

Buffy excelled because whedon knew how to write great female characters. whedon was a 90s feminist since I don't know how the word is defined today because in today's term, all men are clowns even Spock. Spock ? we are talking about.

Chapel is no Buffy Summers and Ethan Peck's Spock is not as cool or has the depth of Spike.

Call whedon anything but saying he wrote female characters poor is just a huge lie. Also Whedon is talented as a creator. Buffy was a masterpiece show, SNW is not. it is generic sci-fi with CW love arc that feels way benneth Spock.

I don't even know who this Chapel chick is? She is nothing like TOS Chapel and I think the reason why some trek fans may be ignoring that is because they have narrated her as a hot blonde chick. In TOS, Chapel pines for Spock and he does not care or like her back. It makes no sense why she will dump him here but the writing of this show has the same awful bad 2010s feminist writing of last jedi that they make the female characters do things that make no sense in theory with the canon story but is all good because they need to show the women strong and always in control of the story narrative at the expanse of the male characters.

Just gotta pop in and say Whedon got plenty of criticism for how he wrote women. People think because he got credit for writing women like people that he never fell into sexist tropes and was 100% sensitive all the time. Not true. He was never a saint. He was just a breath of fresh air, but no one is perfect. And given how he wrote vindictively (writing characters a certain way depending on his relationship with the actor) he wasn't the most mature person either.

Buffy and Angel are my favorite shows ever but let's not do revisionist history.

[80sbaby]

Tara was a great female character and one of the most powerful characters on the show because she had quiet kind of Power that could be effective even with Buffy in a way Giles never could. This is why Buffy confided with her about Spike.

The Cordy issue was bad, however those were external issues. The actress and whedon did not get along. Cordy was written poorly for Angel season 4 but she did get a good send off in season 5.

Black Widow is not a Buffy character.

Spock is a clown and is nothing like his TOS version. Quinto Spock is closer to TOS Spock more than SNW Spock, despite Quinto Spock been an alternate version.
There is no way Spock is meant to mop of chapel or tpring, two women he rejected in TOS and found term intolerable. the show has flipped it, but if you also notice the show also flipped the women's personalities as I said, can anyone explain how snw chapel acts nothing like tos chapel?

I never said I was only referring to Buffy characters. I said there have been critiques about how he's written female characters. Nothing you stated contradicts this fact.

You can keep repeating that Spock's a clown but that doesn't make it true.

[80sbaby]

Just gotta pop in and say Whedon got plenty of criticism for how he wrote women. People think because he got credit for writing women like people that he never fell into sexist tropes and was 100% sensitive all the time. Not true. He was never a saint. He was just a breath of fresh air, but no one is perfect. And given how he wrote vindictively (writing characters a certain way depending on his relationship with the actor) he wasn't the most mature person either.

Buffy and Angel are my favorite shows ever but let's not do revisionist history.

Thank you!! Lol I wasn't even saying that he never wrote any women well but, as you said, let's not re-write history.

[ChrisIII]

I was almost worried around the 45 minutes mark that Uhura wasn't going to sing when TOS established her as a singer. But then she pretty much wound up with the last two songs. Phew!

Some fans might have a problem about the Klingon ships being called K'tinga when the 'fanon' is that the K'tinga ships weren't introduced until TMP (The similar looking TOS TV Klingon ships were usually called D7s). Even then it's hardly the first continuity or scale problem with Klingon ships.

[Conn Seanery]

It's funny seeing someone both champion a writer's supposed affinity for feminism and yet repeatedly refer to women with an archaic term like "chicks."

I bet he will get over it in the next episode and they will give him another love interest. Maybe that blonde chick from the side of paradise.

I don't even know who this Chapel chick is? She is nothing like TOS Chapel and I think the reason why some trek fans may be ignoring that is because they have narrated her as a hot blonde chick.

[ChrisIII]

As myself and others have theorized kind of seems like Batel and probably her ship are doomed.

[Jokerz79]

Going to say this in SNW defense this is the 1st episode I disliked but hell TNG did it with episode 4 Code of Honor, DS9 episode 10 Move Along Home, & VOY with episode 11 Heroes and Demons. So, it took SNW longer to get one than most Trek shows.

[Powerboy]

The additions to the theme music were nice, but Anson Mount singing the "final frontier" speech would have been nice. Also, the theme song's lyrics needed to be used.

Beyond
The rim of the star-light
My love
Is wand'ring in star-flight
I know
He'll find in star-clustered reaches
Love,
Strange love a star woman teaches.
I know
His journey ends never
His star trek
Will go on forever.
But tell him
While he wanders his starry sea
Remember, remember me.

source: https://www.lyricsondemand.com/tvthe...reklyrics.html

ARGH! So true. They had the perfect opportunity to have the words to the Star Trek theme sung and blew it.

I liked it though, of the three shows Ive really liked that have had musicals, this was third. The Buffy musical was number one and the Xena musical was number two.
In both cases, there were the same arguments, that these are dramatic shows, not musicals. Still, it was amazing hearing some of the singing voices.

[Powerboy]

Your treaty idea doesn't work for the personal/ emotional songs. There'd be no character growth through the music.

And I get some may not like this episode, so have no issues with that. For me it was pretty fun, though!

True, it needed to be something that tapped the emotions of the characters because that's a very big part of what musicals do.

I also think Buffy "Once More with Feeling" is very much THE musical episode of a television show but that's tatamount to saying one musical is a fail because there is another musical existing in the world that was better.

Interestingly enough they made the (I think, very wise) choice to have La'an express her feelings to Kirk in dialogue rather than song. That was an interesting dramatic choice.

I might have thought they should have saved this for later in the series but interviews indicate they've been planning it for a year so they must have thought this was the right dramatic moment.