Would Geoff John's GL Be As Big If It Starred John Stewart instead of Hal?

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

What you're saying makes no sense, Johns was the writer/creator for Green Lantern books and with the opportunity and latitude he decides to write his SECOND favorite GL?? Just stop. He paid some dumb lip service and proceeds to make every attempt to bury John Stewart under Hal Jordan. My 8 yrs old could see it coming a mile away.

Nobody said Hal was his second favorite GL. I literally just said that Hal probably is his favorite GL. But this narrative that he hates John Stewart is hardly based on critical or objective thinking. A lot of it is based on bias and anger, which is the problem. The "evidence" that Geoff hates John is limited to "he hardly used him" or "he buried him" when there's no actual proof that Geoff actually dislikes John as a character. There could be a lot of likely reasons why John was underutilized during Geoff Johns's run. But, the one reason that is the most likely is probably just the fact that the story Geoff wanted to tell was about Hal. And that makes sense. I mean, I remember John during that run getting about as much "screen-time" as Guy or Kyle did. All of them would pop up from time to time, especially during the big crossovers, and/or were stars of the side books like Green Lantern Corps or Green Lantern: Emerald Warriors. But none of them were necessarily made to "look bad." John's character was never really assassinated in the way you could argue has happened to characters like Wally West or even Hal himself was in the 90s.

But, the main story was about Hal, and honestly, I couldn't imagine it being about any of the other ones, not because Hal is a "better" Green Lantern, but because his personality just fit the main story better (and it was obviously crafted around his personality). A lot of the story beats and character development that made the run popular would honestly feel a bit out of place if any of the other Green Lanterns were the star: the on-again-off-again relationship with Carol, the personal vendetta with Sinestro, the constant bumping up against authority, the redemption arc, etc. Those are the things that made the book and Hal as a protagonist compelling and I don't know if it would work with any other Green Lantern because they all have wildly different personalities and backstories. I mean, literally, the entirety of the Sinestro Corps War (probably the most acclaimed story from that run) wouldn't have been a thing if it wasn't established that Parallax was actually an alien emotional symbiotic entity and not just the name Hal took when he went "eeeeeeviiiiiiilllll." That, in turn, required that Hal be resurrected from the dead and be the star of said story for maximum emotional impact.

[HAN9000]

One thing Geoff did do though was give comics John his cartoon marine backstory.

And made him a good sniper.

[Vampire Savior]

Whether Geoff Johns likes John Stewart or not is neither here nor there, in my opinion. The results are all that matters to me, and out of the four Green Lanterns, John (lol the only black one) easily came out the worst from that whole 9 year period. If Johns really cared about the character, he would have found something compelling for John to do. But I would put that more on editorial, since Johns' book was about Hal Jordan.

By the way, it isn't against the law to not like or care about John Stewart. If people surmise from history that Geoff Johns doesn't care about John Stewart, then they aren't even saying anything bad about him. They're coming to a reasonable assumption based on the author's work.

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

I don't think Geoff Johns ever said that. And if he did, then I'm sure he's being very dishonest. I remembered that Instagram post. All he did was just say that the first Green Lantern book he ever bought was when John Stewart was the lead Green Lantern and how anxious he is to see that one artist (forgot his name) to draw him in Darkseid War. That was it.

Geoff Johns had Guy Gardner guest appeared in his Green Lantern book at the time when Hal shared the book with John. Guy Gardner played a really good role when he was there. He also prefers Hal over Guy, but you don't see him diminishing a guest character in a book.

I remember the post too and I remember him literally saying something to the effect of "John Stewart was the first Green Lantern I ever read and I've loved him ever since." Now, was he telling the truth? I dunno. I don't know Geoff personally so I can't say, but then again, neither can you (unless you actually do know Geoff Johns personally). And that's the point. A lot of the theorizing that Geoff hates John Stewart, at least at this point, is just that: theorizing. None of us know the man or know what his thought process was when crafting his GL run. And mainstream comics are not like regular books where the writer has full creative control over their own characters. DC is a company and DC characters are owned by said company, which for the most part, decides how and when they're used. The writers only get control or creative latitude when they're allowed to have it.

This isn't a clear cut case here. It's not like other instances I can recall where creators literally came out saying that they had a problem with a specific character or class of characters. Because those cases exist. However, there's no real proof that this is one of them.

[Anthony Shaw]

Actually, Geoff has gone on record saying the John is one of his favorite characters. There was an Instagram post from him a few years back where he said how John was the first GL he ever read and he singled out the Len Wein run I think (?) as one of his favorite runs on Green Lantern. Just because he might prefer Hal doesn't mean he hates John.

I never said he hated John. A creator can like a character, but fail to make the character compelling. This happens a lot with Superman.

JMS adores Superman and his work on the guy (outside Earth One, which I've not read and thus have no opinion on) was pretty awful.

Yep. That really shows when Batman is featured in the same story.

[Anthony Shaw]

One thing Geoff did do though was give comics John his cartoon marine backstory.

It worked in the cartoons because John was heavily used, and routinely interacted/clashed with various characters. That really did not happen much on the comic's side. In the comics, John did not seem to have a lot of agency in stories while Hal, Sinestro, and even Guy did.

I honestly prefer the Pre-Crisis/Steve Englehart incarnation of John Stewart.

[skyvolt2000]

You can scream you like this or that character all day long.


The bottom line-what you put out as your final offering-that complete book that is on the shelves is the one and ONLY judge.

The creative team will be judged by what they put out. Especially when it's you top talent.

If this is what you top talent is offering.

And knowing the chances of someone else trying to fix it-won't happen.

[Frontier]

I never said he hated John. A creator can like a character, but fail to make the character compelling. This happens a lot with Superman.

Was he required to make John compelling? Or is that out of obligation for his potential?

I think Geoff had John do cool stuff in his run, and gave him his own character moments.

I guess we could argue whether he treated John differently then he treated Guy and Kyle.

It worked in the cartoons because John was heavily used, and routinely interacted/clashed with various characters. That really did not happen much on the comic's side. In the comics, John did not seem to have a lot of agency in stories while Hal, Sinestro, and even Guy did.

I think we got to see his more military perspective shine through a bit at times.

[Anthony Shaw]

Was he required to make John compelling? Or is that out of obligation for his potential?

I think Geoff had John do cool stuff in his run, and gave him his own character moments.

I guess we could argue whether he treated John differently then he treated Guy and Kyle.

I think we got to see his more military perspective shine through a bit at times.

Geoff was not required to make John compelling. He did not have to even use him.

While I like John, I did not find him as interesting as the other characters during that run. After the SCW, John was shown sitting on rock in space, thinking about who Hal was gonna seduce next. Sorry John, but that is Hector Hammond's job to ponder stuff like that. During the 2005 Rebirth, Guy already told John to get his head right, and move on. Yeah, John showed he had more will-power than the ring could manifest, but he has zero agency.

Let's look at Blackest Night.

I think John Stewart could have really shined during Blackest Night in a one-shot, or two part tie-in by a different writer. I was underwhelmed with his interaction with black lanterns Katma & Xanshi. I think Kurt Busiek, Joe Kelly, or J. M. DeMatteis would have put forth a more emotional story than the one Geoff cranked out. The story Geoff wrote felt like filler. I wish Geoff let someone else write that story.

I got more feels from the limited scenes with Carter Hall, Ray Palmer, and Kendra than the story with John. I have very little knowledge of Carter, Ray, and Kendra. I still remember Ray asking Carter not to hang up the phone so he could visit. Ray needed to talk to his bro, but Carter was not in the mood. The stuff with Carter & Kendra was interesting. I wanted more, but Black Lantern Ralph showed up. I never read a story with Ralph, yet I was captivated by that incarnation, and the history he shared with Ray & Carter. That piqued my interest in the Satellite JLA. I have not read Blackest Night in years, yet that stuck with me. That is compelling writing, to me.

The scenes Geoff wrote with Mera dealing with her Black Lantern family was more compelling to me than John Stewart. I think that was when Mera started to get noticed by readers outside the traditional Aquaman fandom.

I got more LOL's from Barry & Hal bantering about the Clark Kent persona, and how Kal was able to romance Lois Lane before BL Martian Manhunter showed. Again, Geoff made MM more compelling than John. You can tell Geoff enjoyed writing that.

John, Mera, Carter, Ray, and Kendra all were dealing with tragedy & loss that comes from death. Besides the action (and dark humor), the BL story was a way for a writer to hit various character beats with the heroes involved.

I just felt more passion from Geoff with those other characters, than with John. Geoff just never had a feel for John, imo.

[Will Evans]

Here’s a summary of John Stewart’s history including what Geoff did with him.

I forgot about having to re****** Xanshi through Mogo.

http://majorspoilers.com/2013/02/17/...-john-stewart/

[Vordan]

Was he required to make John compelling? Or is that out of obligation for his potential?

I think Geoff had John do cool stuff in his run, and gave him his own character moments.

I guess we could argue whether he treated John differently then he treated Guy and Kyle.

I think we got to see his more military perspective shine through a bit at times.

Did he? What would you consider to be some of those? I’ve been thinking about Johns run, and the irony is that despite HEAT hating Kyle for “stealing” Hal’s spot, I felt like Kyle got treated fairly well under Johns. He was important, he did cool stuff, he had that whole stint as Ion and as the White Lantern. Like I can’t really remember any standout moments with Stewart for the entire Johns tenure.

[Will Evans]

Did he? What would you consider to be some of those? I’ve been thinking about Johns run, and the irony is that despite HEAT hating Kyle for “stealing” Hal’s spot, I felt like Kyle got treated fairly well under Johns. He was important, he did cool stuff, he had that whole stint as Ion and as the White Lantern. Like I can’t really remember any standout moments with Stewart for the entire Johns tenure.

Check out the link I have above

[Frontier]

Geoff was not required to make John compelling. He did not have to even use him.

While I like John, I did not find him as interesting as the other characters during that run. After the SCW, John was shown sitting on rock in space, thinking about who Hal was gonna seduce next. Sorry John, but that is Hector Hammond's job to ponder stuff like that. During the 2005 Rebirth, Guy already told John to get his head right, and move on. Yeah, John showed he had more will-power than the ring could manifest, but he has zero agency.

Let's look at Blackest Night.

I think John Stewart could have really shined during Blackest Night in a one-shot, or two part tie-in by a different writer. I was underwhelmed with his interaction with black lanterns Katma & Xanshi. I think Kurt Busiek, Joe Kelly, or J. M. DeMatteis would have put forth a more emotional story than the one Geoff cranked out. The story Geoff wrote felt like filler. I wish Geoff let someone else write that story.

I got more feels from the limited scenes with Carter Hall, Ray Palmer, and Kendra than the story with John. I have very little knowledge of Carter, Ray, and Kendra. I still remember Ray asking Carter not to hang up the phone so he could visit. Ray needed to talk to his bro, but Carter was not in the mood. The stuff with Carter & Kendra was interesting. I wanted more, but Black Lantern Ralph showed up. I never read a story with Ralph, yet I was captivated by that incarnation, and the history he shared with Ray & Carter. That piqued my interest in the Satellite JLA. I have not read Blackest Night in years, yet that stuck with me. That is compelling writing, to me.

The scenes Geoff wrote with Mera dealing with her Black Lantern family was more compelling to me than John Stewart. I think that was when Mera started to get noticed by readers outside the traditional Aquaman fandom.

I got more LOL's from Barry & Hal bantering about the Clark Kent persona, and how Kal was able to romance Lois Lane before BL Martian Manhunter showed. Again, Geoff made MM more compelling than John. You can tell Geoff enjoyed writing that.

John, Mera, Carter, Ray, and Kendra all were dealing with tragedy & loss that comes from death. Besides the action (and dark humor), the BL story was a way for a writer to hit various character beats with the heroes involved.

I just felt more passion from Geoff with those other characters, than with John. Geoff just never had a feel for John, imo.

I think he was at least expected to use him since John was one of the prominent comic Earth Lanterns. He didn't need to keep Kyle around, but he did.

If the SCW scene was all John did during that run, I would be with you, but that wasn't the only thing he did across the entire run. I think the argument could be made that he was at times portrayed too much as a Hal supporting character rather then his own lead, but I don't think he had the worst handling of John overall.

I'd have to re-read John's Blackest Night tie-in.

Did he? What would you consider to be some of those? I’ve been thinking about Johns run, and the irony is that despite HEAT hating Kyle for “stealing” Hal’s spot, I felt like Kyle got treated fairly well under Johns. He was important, he did cool stuff, he had that whole stint as Ion and as the White Lantern. Like I can’t really remember any standout moments with Stewart for the entire Johns tenure.

People remember Hal one-punching Batman but John was the first one to call out Batman for why he was so self-conscious around the Green Lanterns, and during that arc where Hal Jordan was being hunted down thanks to Abin Sur's evil kid, John was undercover and helped bring down the whole operation.

I think he did some other stuff during the Sinestro Corps War that I'm forgetting.

[Dr. Poison]

It's hard to say if John's GL run would have been as successful if it starred John Stewart instead as much of the base for the run was derived from Hal and Sinestro's beginnings. John isn't as closely tied to Sinestro as Hal is so there would have had to have been a lot of finagling on Johns' end to try and make this work.

[Dr. Ellingham]

Here's the thing. He says that about every DC character. He says he loves every one of them, and I think he genuinely does, but he definitely likes some more than others. I have never heard him once say he actively hates a character or even dislikes them, and I don't think it's him being dishonest.

Yeah. I've only met Geoff Johns once, but I can tell you the impression I got: he's as big a DC fan as I've ever met - all of it, every era. I remember someone jokingly asking him when he'd finally kill off Kyle Rayner, and he was silent for a moment and said "Actually, I'd like to write a Kyle book someday." As a fan, he was most "into" 90s DC - Wally West is his favorite DC character, and Conner Kent is like #3 on his list.

But a writer writes what they're hired to write. So when the time came, he killed off Conner Kent - it was his job. With GL, he was tasked with bringing Hal Jordan back, and writing his solo series. That was the job. He also revamped John Stewart and incorporated aspects of the JLU show into his character. I'm not a huge fan of that mix, but it was intended as a best-of-everything deal. After Rebirth they knew they wouldn't have a solo comic for every GL character, so Johns and Peter Tomasi got DC on board with this arrangement:

GL - Hal
GLC - Guy and Kyle
Justice League - John

That way, everyone had somewhere to appear. One Year Later blew that up, though - Brad Melter wanted to reform the classic League and do a Satellite era-inspired version featuring Hal, Black Canary and Red Arrow. Tomasi, Johns and Didio asked him if he was willing to use John as well as Hal, but he didn't want an extra GL. So knowing JS was soon to have no home, Tomasi approved a Kyle Rayner solo series, to free up space for John to move over to GLC.

It's a business, guys. These are storytellers, creators. If they write/draw fictional characters differently than you'd like, then that's...a...small...very small...teeny tiny shame.

Seriously - to whom is that not 100% blatantly obvious?