Where are the gay/bi men in DC comics?

[vasir12]

lesbians more accepted than gay men

"Accepted" doesn't seem like the right word. It's more so gay women can appeal to the male gaze more. Which is a tactic used often in comics. This doesn't count the characters written by actually LGBT women. That's kinda different.

[Restingvoice]

Has DC ever given Wondy a girlfriend?

Yes. Earth One and Rebirth, both before meeting Steve Trevor

[Midnight_v]

Like with race-to show that they exist.

I think folks are tiring of excuses.

We will hear all this mess about sales when it comes to LGBTQ & POC lead books.

So it's not Midnighter volume 4(?) or Steel volume 2.

Yet we see Moon Knight volume 7.

We see guys who haven't sniff a book in years like Question and Adam Strange gets minis and OGNs.

Yet there is an excuse for everybody else because some trolls on Twitter are going to throw fits.

It gets to be we see events and all this and LGBTQ (in this case) are MIA in it (aside from Batwoman).

I don't need it in everything. I would liek to see a little more variety and this is when an anthology or showcase book is needed. OUTSIDE of the direct market-since there are issues when DC or marvel does it. Everyone else seems to excluded.

Look at Boom-current Batman writer did 2 LGBTQ series. To no complaints and one got a pilot form SYFY.

We just brushed past each other with this in the John Stewart thread... A writer almost NEEDS to want to write a story. I'm reading the deaths of vic sage right now... excellent work... and I'm glad it got such good review or i'd have missed it cause I WASN"T checking for the question too hard every.

That being said its not about "Excuses" I'm pretty sure DC isn't making excuses like at all. Nor do they owe anyone either other than "$$$? ".
I'd like to add this about the Apollo and Midnighter... I bought and own every issue of the late stormwatch books and the authority all the way worlds end, and the Nu52 (horrible book btw) A&M worked so well because they were characters that were doing the super/anit-hero thing SO WELL, and they just happened to be gay. *shrug* IT WAS GREAT, THEY WERE AWESOME...

But this thing you want, this "To show they exist" thing... that's such a failure of a start for a narrative, try not to be so surprised it so rarely catches on. Huh, you know what else they illustrated in that book? They weren't unilaterally applauded for being gay, there was often some power-mand/jingoistic/psycho who actually did them harm often with them being "Poofs" as a talking point before well that guy GOT poofed. Still they we're changing the world and that was pretty different from whats allowed in Dc I guess. *shrug*

I know Constantine, yes, and Jericho, but are there any others currently active in any books? ~ add in Aqualad and maybe the ray

with the amount of books dc is putting out right now
you're doing pretty great as opposed to say Spanish/Hispanic characters for example and that's pretty crazy when one considers the amount of Hispanic people in this country. That's not a whatabout-ism either, its more
a statement on how overall having 3 gay characters active is actually pretty good for this company with its reduced line.

[Frontier]

Again, I can't comment on the TV Series, but Singh in the comics really didn't carry the weight he did during the New 52 issues I was referring to. Like, if he was there more than I realized, his importance and agency as wasn't all that, compared to Meena or August. I felt it was a downgrade to before.

Maybe not to where he had his own arc like he did in the New 52, but he still felt like a major figure in Barry's civilian life.

[witchboy]

I don't think Connor Hawke is canon bi, but there's long been fan support for him to be. It's not listed on his DC Wiki profile (at the bottom of the page there would be a tag that he's bisexual if he was).
https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Connor_Hawke_(New_Earth)

[witchboy]

Even one of his closest friends, Dick Grayson, gets respect through a very specific lense: one where Damian needs to assert himself first and foremost. He needs to remind Dick that (he thinks) he's the best Robin. Damian is the kind of person who is all ego and insufferable at that, so he would very likely (even unintentionally) be emotionally abusive to his significant other. He's a jerk. He has yet to grow out of it, which admittedly is often writers backsliding his development, but it remains. Jon is a generally outgoing, sunny person who treats people with a lot more kindness. That relationship would be mostly give on Jon's part with very little in return other than what he interprets Damian's grandstanding as.

Anyone who needs to remind adopted brothers that he's the blood son really isn't ready for interpersonal relationships, especially when those adopted brothers all suffered their biological parents being murdered.

I don't entirely blame Damian for being the way he is given his upbringing and Bruce is a piece of work himself, but as of right now he's certainly no catch. The kid is a complete ass. That's why people like him, but he's never been a tender person to anyone sans Dick and Jon, and he usually needs to be rude to them anyway to assert a dominance that only he believes exists. I do remember some moments of genuine, selfless compassion for people from Damian (finding out Dick was alive, for one), so there's hope, but we're talking about their characters as they exist and right now nobody needs to return Damian's affections.

I'm not debating that Damian would be a good partner, but once he's old enough it's inevitable that he date someone. At least we know he has genuine affection for Jon. And Damian may mellow a little by then.
The grumpy one and the sunshine one can be a fun trope anyways, and I expect that Jon would know how to take Damian's bad attitude.

[Dred]

I don't think Connor Hawke is canon bi, but there's long been fan support for him to be. It's not listed on his DC Wiki profile (at the bottom of the page there would be a tag that he's bisexual if he was).
https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Connor_Hawke_(New_Earth)

Frankly, he never had enough exposure or time to delve into his romantic interest in a codified way. Which is probably the best kind of character to make this reveal for, since it avoids the messy business of retconning a longer history with more developed romantic character arcs. Also, the same audience that likes him already is naturally inclined to want more LGBT rep since there's a lot of crossover in pro-minority rep fans with pro-lgbt rep fans. Unfortunately, he is unlikely to ever be significant again, and he wasn't that significant in the first place.

[witchboy]

Frankly, he never had enough exposure or time to delve into his romantic interest in a codified way. Which is probably the best kind of character to make this reveal for, since it avoids the messy business of retconning a longer history with more developed romantic character arcs. Also, the same audience that likes him already is naturally inclined to want more LGBT rep since there's a lot of crossover in pro-minority rep fans with pro-lgbt rep fans. Unfortunately, he is unlikely to ever be significant again, and he wasn't that significant in the first place.

I agree that he could easily be shown to be bi or gay as his orientation isn't that well established, but yeah, there's not much point in it if he's not going to be used.

[kjn]

"Accepted" doesn't seem like the right word. It's more so gay women can appeal to the male gaze more. Which is a tactic used often in comics. This doesn't count the characters written by actually LGBT women. That's kinda different.

Exactly.

Patriarchy rears its head both within the LGBT community and in how "outside" society interacts with LGBT people as individuals and as a group. One factor in that is that girl on girl is hot, but it seldom extends to being the protagonist or it being a story element. The way DC is handling Ivy and Harley in their mainline continuity is one example, while there is no similar push wrt John Constantine.

Put another way, the ways that LGBT men and women are erased and marginalised differ.

[J. D. Guy]

Connor Hawke I thought was bi.

Connor Hawke is an interesting story, as I recall it. When he was introduced, he never showed any romantic or sexual attraction to anyone else. It could have been for any reason, although he had spent much of his formative years living as a monk. Anyway, he did have friendships with male characters whom he had real good chemistries with. I can recall Kyle Rayner as one, specifically.

Then one of the big writers at the time -- who's name I don't recall -- did a thing and kinda squickily shoe-horned a situation where Connor and some female character had sex, all for the sake of "totes proving he wasn't gay, you guys."

Since then? Nothing in any direction, from what I can tell. And he's been in limbo for going on two decades or more, depending on when he was last seen (outside Convergence and a Roy Harper-expy with Connor's name in early Earth-2, both during New 52.)

[Masterff]

Connor Hawke is an interesting story, as I recall it. When he was introduced, he never showed any romantic or sexual attraction to anyone else. It could have been for any reason, although he had spent much of his formative years living as a monk. Anyway, he did have friendships with male characters whom he had real good chemistries with. I can recall Kyle Rayner as one, specifically.

I remember that MIA DEARDEN was sad once, because of her being sick and he kissed her...

[skyvolt2000]

I don't think Connor Hawke is canon bi, but there's long been fan support for him to be. It's not listed on his DC Wiki profile (at the bottom of the page there would be a tag that he's bisexual if he was).
https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Connor_Hawke_(New_Earth)

It's been implied more than anything. Now that he's gone because batman and Superman have to look "young" despite having Tweeners and everyone else like Ollie and Jefferson had to lose their kids.

[dietrich]

Even one of his closest friends, Dick Grayson, gets respect through a very specific lense: one where Damian needs to assert himself first and foremost. He needs to remind Dick that (he thinks) he's the best Robin. Damian is the kind of person who is all ego and insufferable at that, so he would very likely (even unintentionally) be emotionally abusive to his significant other. He's a jerk. He has yet to grow out of it, which admittedly is often writers backsliding his development, but it remains. Jon is a generally outgoing, sunny person who treats people with a lot more kindness. That relationship would be mostly give on Jon's part with very little in return other than what he interprets Damian's grandstanding as.

Anyone who needs to remind adopted brothers that he's the blood son really isn't ready for interpersonal relationships, especially when those adopted brothers all suffered their biological parents being murdered.

I don't entirely blame Damian for being the way he is given his upbringing and Bruce is a piece of work himself, but as of right now he's certainly no catch. The kid is a complete ass. That's why people like him, but he's never been a tender person to anyone sans Dick and Jon, and he usually needs to be rude to them anyway to assert a dominance that only he believes exists. I do remember some moments of genuine, selfless compassion for people from Damian (finding out Dick was alive, for one), so there's hope, but we're talking about their characters as they exist and right now nobody needs to return Damian's affections.

Damian's ego? His need to be the best, his Past focus on blood?

Damian is insecure believing he isn't good enough and will never live up to whats expected. This is canon. Damian has stated that he will never be as good as Dick or Bruce.

Blood was important to him because he was taught that lineage is all that matters having to fight his mother for years just to earn the right to know where his blood comes from.
He has since learnt that blood doesn't mean a thing afterall his father didn't want him and his mother disowned him.

Dick Grayson his adopted brother was the one to take him in and make him family.
Dick Grayson isn't blood but he is the person that Damian values the most in life

His mother had clones of him making him aware they were his replacements in case he disappoints. Later he get killed by one of them. A better stronger version of himself.

Damian is bossy and is emotionally stunned that is part genetics, part condition behaviour and I believe [him again over compensating]

Damian is the best skilled Robin [compared at the same age] so that's simply facts and some show boating however he doesn't believe he is the BEST Robin.

His need to be the best because he grew up understanding that love is earned and conditional. Dick Grayson was the 1st person to love him unconditionally.

However all of that is just explaining his behaviour and that is irrelevant.

In love what matters. What anyone deserves is the chance to be with some they love. Someone that makes them happy and we loves them in return.

Jon already loves Damian. Not even the fickle fleeting way that is often the case in romantic relationships but in a deeper sense where you love the person for who they are. Just like Dick Grayson already loves Damian just the way he is.

Damian can be an ass and even with all his flaws and behaviour Jon still loves spending time with him. He makes him happy.

Damian has already shown that he cares for Jon. I haven't seen him give his life to protect Jon like he did for Dick but he loves him none the less.

They already have a bombastic Bromance even though Damian is a jerk and Jon is often physically abusive.

I don't see or want them to be together romantically [I like the Damian and Chris Kent pairing hinted at in Multiversity The Just] but I can't deny that the two make each other happy and have a great partnership already.

[9th.]

Connor Hawke is an interesting story, as I recall it. When he was introduced, he never showed any romantic or sexual attraction to anyone else. It could have been for any reason, although he had spent much of his formative years living as a monk. Anyway, he did have friendships with male characters whom he had real good chemistries with. I can recall Kyle Rayner as one, specifically.

Then one of the big writers at the time -- who's name I don't recall -- did a thing and kinda squickily shoe-horned a situation where Connor and some female character had sex, all for the sake of "totes proving he wasn't gay, you guys."

Since then? Nothing in any direction, from what I can tell. And he's been in limbo for going on two decades or more, depending on when he was last seen (outside Convergence and a Roy Harper-expy with Connor's name in early Earth-2, both during New 52.)

He never seemed like either to me when I was reading him, he could just be asexual.

[Robanker]

Damian's ego? His need to be the best, his Past focus on blood?

Damian is insecure believing he isn't good enough and will never live up to whats expected. This is canon. Damian has stated that he will never be as good as Dick or Bruce.

Blood was important to him because he was taught that lineage is all that matters having to fight his mother for years just to earn the right to know where his blood comes from.
He has since learnt that blood doesn't mean a thing afterall his father didn't want him and his mother disowned him.

Dick Grayson his adopted brother was the one to take him in and make him family.
Dick Grayson isn't blood but he is the person that Damian values the most in life

His mother had clones of him making him aware they were his replacements in case he disappoints. Later he get killed by one of them. A better stronger version of himself.

Damian is bossy and is emotionally stunned that is part genetics, part condition behaviour and I believe [him again over compensating]

Damian is the best skilled Robin [compared at the same age] so that's simply facts and some show boating however he doesn't believe he is the BEST Robin.

His need to be the best because he grew up understanding that love is earned and conditional. Dick Grayson was the 1st person to love him unconditionally.

However all of that is just explaining his behaviour and that is irrelevant.

In love what matters. What anyone deserves is the chance to be with some they love. Someone that makes them happy and we loves them in return.

Jon already loves Damian. Not even the fickle fleeting way that is often the case in romantic relationships but in a deeper sense where you love the person for who they are. Just like Dick Grayson already loves Damian just the way he is.

Damian can be an ass and even with all his flaws and behaviour Jon still loves spending time with him. He makes him happy.

Damian has already shown that he cares for Jon. I haven't seen him give his life to protect Jon like he did for Dick but he loves him none the less.

They already have a bombastic Bromance even though Damian is a jerk and Jon is often physically abusive.

I don't see or want them to be together romantically [I like the Damian and Chris Kent pairing hinted at in Multiversity The Just] but I can't deny that the two make each other happy and have a great partnership already.

I've been reading the kid since he showed up in Morrison and Kubert's time on Batman and him admitting he wasn't as good as in an alternate future where Bruce and Dick were long dead. In the present he lacks the perspective or emotional maturity to realize his flaws and grow as a person.

Yes, he cares about the people in his life, but the way he carries himself is toxic for long term relationships. Jon and Dick bring the best out in Damian, but even then he's an insufferable brat.

I get it, you like Damian and that's perfectly cool. I for one think he's awful and was at his best using his chest to polish his clone's sword. We'll have to agree to disagree. It's been, what, 15 years and I've only ever seen Damian be a complete bastard to mask his insecurities. He only gets so many chances.

Jon deserves better than Damian. Hell, everyone does. Lots of people can make anyone very happy, but justifying being with someone who is abusive just because they have issues and need love too is essentially enabling abuse. They're friends, but more than that, Damian needs to grow before he deserves anyone's time. I don't and will never believe that love entitles abuse. Love can be unconditional, but relationships never should be. You can be there for someone when they need you without subjecting yourself to a romantic entanglement with them. Damian, as he is characterized in the present (and has been since inception) is a jackass and not deserving.

We're derailing the thread, so let's agree to disagree.