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  1. #1
    Uncanny King-Kamalu lemonpeace's Avatar
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    Default DC's Closet of costumes and beards and other allusions to...

    ...queerness. alright, so I'm not sure how this'll go but go with me on this one. my question is, who are some characters that, while not outwardly or never overtly stated to be, could plausibly be read as queer or in the proverbably closet?

    I know there is a small school of thought that Alan Scott could be in the closet a la Negative Man on the Doom Patrol show, and even some fans who throw out the possibility of Jon and Damian growing up to be a gay couple. while I'm not saying these are things that are more or less likely to actually happen, I'm curious about if there are any possibly queer coded characters and the rationale behind them.

    Me personally, I'm a big proponent that characters like Martian Manhunter and Miss Martian would be more pansexual or sexually fluid due to the postphysical and telepathic nature of Martian society. it just feels extremely unlikely, and honesly unbelievable, that anyone from a telepathic culture of alien shapeshifters would subscribe to the comparatively primitive and antiquated heteronormative culture of select human societies.
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  2. #2
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    pretty much all of the titans

  3. #3
    FF purist/snob CaptCleghorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lemonpeace View Post
    ...queerness. alright, so I'm not sure how this'll go but go with me on this one. my question is, who are some characters that, while not outwardly or never overtly stated to be, could plausibly be read as queer or in the proverbably closet?

    I know there is a small school of thought that Alan Scott could be in the closet a la Negative Man on the Doom Patrol show, and even some fans who throw out the possibility of Jon and Damian growing up to be a gay couple. while I'm not saying these are things that are more or less likely to actually happen, I'm curious about if there are any possibly queer coded characters and the rationale behind them.
    The Alan Scott school of thought seems to be driven by the Nu52 Earth 2 version who is gay. For JSA characters, there was an older school of thought about Charles McNider's Dr. Midnite being gay. Personally, I'd love to see a case where a gay hero was hiding their sexuality during the forties and fifties. I have a personal desire for Alan Scott as it would add a distinct flavor to the Harlequin's pursuit of him. But that's just me.

  4. #4
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptCleghorn View Post
    The Alan Scott school of thought seems to be driven by the Nu52 Earth 2 version who is gay. For JSA characters, there was an older school of thought about Charles McNider's Dr. Midnite being gay. Personally, I'd love to see a case where a gay hero was hiding their sexuality during the forties and fifties. I have a personal desire for Alan Scott as it would add a distinct flavor to the Harlequin's pursuit of him. But that's just me.
    I think I read somewhere that a villain or major crook killed Mid-Nite's female love interest, if I remember right.

  5. #5
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Well we've got plenty of alien races, who's to say how someone from Krypton or Tamaran would handle sexuality? I've always thought that Starfire could easily be pansexual, or at least bi.

    I agree about J'onn; I very much doubt a race of shape shifting telepaths view sexuality in a way we'd understand, or even recognize.

    A case can be made for a whole lot of Golden Ager's too. Not just Allan or Mid-Nite, but basically any hero who's love interest played a minor, inconsequential role as a token element could easily be seen as the hero just going through the motions because that's what was expected of them.

    I've heard people talk about Fire and Ice maybe being closeted but I feel like that's more a knee-jerk reaction to two female besties more than anything that's truly supported by the page. It doesn't help that Bea fills that "hot crazy party girl" archetype either.

    If Jimmy Olsen is just a straight dude, I'll eat my hat. I don't know if he's gay, bi, or something more "unusual" but I don't think he's straight.
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    Astonishing Member HandofPrometheus's Avatar
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    Post-Crisis Brainiac 5 and Invisible Kid for sure.

  7. #7
    FF purist/snob CaptCleghorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I think I read somewhere that a villain or major crook killed Mid-Nite's female love interest, if I remember right.
    That could very well be. I'm just pointing out a fan theory moreso than canonical evidence.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by lemonpeace View Post
    ...queerness. alright, so I'm not sure how this'll go but go with me on this one. my question is, who are some characters that, while not outwardly or never overtly stated to be, could plausibly be read as queer or in the proverbably closet?

    I know there is a small school of thought that Alan Scott could be in the closet a la Negative Man on the Doom Patrol show, and even some fans who throw out the possibility of Jon and Damian growing up to be a gay couple. while I'm not saying these are things that are more or less likely to actually happen, I'm curious about if there are any possibly queer coded characters and the rationale behind them.

    Me personally, I'm a big proponent that characters like Martian Manhunter and Miss Martian would be more pansexual or sexually fluid due to the postphysical and telepathic nature of Martian society. it just feels extremely unlikely, and honesly unbelievable, that anyone from a telepathic culture of alien shapeshifters would subscribe to the comparatively primitive and antiquated heteronormative culture of select human societies.
    I also agree with the point about DC Martians. Never would have thought about it as a kid (though, granted, I wasn't into comics as kid, either), but now, it does seem highly unlikely if not out right unbelievable that such a fluid a species as the Martians would have such a rigid and binary view on romance and sexuality.

    I also recall reading about the JSA Alan Scott potentially being deeply closeted, and the person/poster who wrote about it made convincing points overall that would make sense for Alan being a closeted gay man in his storyline compared to how it could hypothetically make sense for a number of other JSA heroes. I wish I could recall which place/post had it, though.

  9. #9
    Astonishing Member mathew101281's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by J. D. Guy View Post
    I also agree with the point about DC Martians. Never would have thought about it as a kid (though, granted, I wasn't into comics as kid, either), but now, it does seem highly unlikely if not out right unbelievable that such a fluid a species as the Martians would have such a rigid and binary view on romance and sexuality.

    I also recall reading about the JSA Alan Scott potentially being deeply closeted, and the person/poster who wrote about it made convincing points overall that would make sense for Alan being a closeted gay man in his storyline compared to how it could hypothetically make sense for a number of other JSA heroes. I wish I could recall which place/post had it, though.
    Would shapeshifters even have things like gender or sex? What do those terms even mean to creatures that can shift between male and female easier then you or I can change clothing in the morning? And itís not like shapeshifting is something they develop later in life either. If that was the case one could argue that they could develop gender based proclivities When they are younger.

  10. #10
    Astonishing Member Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Well we've got plenty of alien races, who's to say how someone from Krypton or Tamaran would handle sexuality? I've always thought that Starfire could easily be pansexual, or at least bi.

    I agree about J'onn; I very much doubt a race of shape shifting telepaths view sexuality in a way we'd understand, or even recognize.

    A case can be made for a whole lot of Golden Ager's too. Not just Allan or Mid-Nite, but basically any hero who's love interest played a minor, inconsequential role as a token element could easily be seen as the hero just going through the motions because that's what was expected of them.

    I've heard people talk about Fire and Ice maybe being closeted but I feel like that's more a knee-jerk reaction to two female besties more than anything that's truly supported by the page. It doesn't help that Bea fills that "hot crazy party girl" archetype either.

    If Jimmy Olsen is just a straight dude, I'll eat my hat. I don't know if he's gay, bi, or something more "unusual" but I don't think he's straight.
    With respect to Fire and Ice, it bothered me because I can't think of too many platonic female relationships at DC that don't get hit with shipping. Barbara and Dinah have the same thing going for them. In both cases, I don't really see it for them.

    J'onn should totally be pan given everything we know about Martian culture. Be can be straight still, just as I imagine some Amazons are asexual/aromantic, but it would certainly help with representation in the Justice League.

    I could see the golden age Atom being in the closet. He's shown to be insecure given his height and he overcompensated with the machismo, so perhaps he was doing so for his sexuality as well.

    I could imagine Circe is bisexual, but I also feel like I've read that somewhere.

    Jon Kent could be bi.

    I think Tim and Conner could feasibly be into each other even if they're not interested in men.

    I'm with you in Jimmy.
    Last edited by Robanker; 05-16-2020 at 01:34 PM.

  11. #11
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    With respect to Fire and Ice, it bothered me because I can't think of too many platonic female relationships at DC that don't get hit with shipping. Barbara and Dinah have the same thing going for them. In both cases, I don't really see it for them.

    J'onn should totally be pan given everything we know about Martian culture. Be can be straight still, just as I imagine some Amazons are asexual/aromantic, but it would certainly help with representation in the Justice League.

    I could see the golden age Atom being in the closet. He's shown to be insecure given his height and he overcompensated with the machismo, so perhaps he was doing so for his sexuality as well.

    I could imagine Circe is bisexual, but I also feel like I've read that somewhere.

    Jon Kent could be bi.

    I think Tim and Conner could feasibly be into each other even if they're not interested in men.

    I'm with you in Jimmy.
    I think there's usually a rush to jump to "interested in the same sex" when extremely close same sex friendships are depicted. Plus, y'know, shipping.

    I don't see it with Al Pratt. It's just the kind of character he is and, from what I've read, he was really committed to his girl.

    I think J'onn might be open to anything...but he's also too devoted to his wife.

  12. #12
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Yeah, any BFF situation usually gets the "secretly gay" thing. Fire and Ice, Clark and Bruce, Ted and Booster, Babs and Dinah, etc etc. In most cases I don't agree with the interpretation, and as a general rule I don't want to see close friendships like that turned into romance. Just because you're friends doesn't mean you want to screw each other.

    I think Fire and Ice might get it a little worse than average maybe, and off the top of my head I can't recall any meaningful relationships Fire has had, so I guess there's that. But Ice and Guy are too entrenched for Tora to be gay. I question her taste in men if Guy is what does it for her, but she's not gay.

    There's nothing on the page that supports or hints at it, at least as far as I know, but for some reason I always thought Jason Todd might be gay, or at least bi.
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  13. #13
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    What about characters that WERE queer in DC Bombshells? Could they be queer in the main DC Universe?

  14. #14
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    I think Fire and Ice might get it a little worse than average maybe, and off the top of my head I can't recall any meaningful relationships Fire has had, so I guess there's that. But Ice and Guy are too entrenched for Tora to be gay. I question her taste in men if Guy is what does it for her, but she's not gay.
    Fire had something going on with Booster for a hot-minute...I think.
    There's nothing on the page that supports or hints at it, at least as far as I know, but for some reason I always thought Jason Todd might be gay, or at least bi.
    He has a thing with Artemis (the redheaded Amazon).
    Quote Originally Posted by Will Evans View Post
    What about characters that WERE queer in DC Bombshells? Could they be queer in the main DC Universe?
    Practically all of them were, and I somehow doubt that is the case in the main universe.

    I doubt Lois Lane and Kara Zor-El would ever make out in the main universe, for instance.

  15. #15
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Fire had something going on with Booster for a hot-minute...I think.
    That does sound vaguely familiar.....

    He has a thing with Artemis (the redheaded Amazon).
    Ah, I didn't know that. Haven't read Outlaws since the first year or so of the New52.
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