Invincible vs Black Bolt

[Nik Hasta]

That should be fast enough to do the blitz. BB is tough, but as I connected years ago, he's got 99 powers but the blitz ain't one. "Fraction of light speed" means Mark hits BB thousands or more times before he can react, and BB, while tough, isn't tanking even 1000 class 90 punches without going down. Diet Coke class 100 with thousands of punches is turning him into paste.

This is why I was unsure and was asking BB durability questions at the beginning.

My one real memory of his durability was in War of Kings when Gladiator hit him hard enough that the gigantic glacier they were standing on was mostly shattered by the impact and he was up and around looking pissed within 30 seconds or so rather than being hurt. If him being able to eat hits from Gladiator was consistent then he'd be beyond Mark's capacity to hurt.

As it seems he's not, Mark can just blitz him and tear his throat out like he did to Thragg.

[big_adventure]

BB isn't going to go down to one class 100 shot. But he most definitely will to a large collection of completely-unresponded-to class 100 shots. He's tough, but very, very few guys are THAT tough.

[Nik Hasta]

So, after work today, I read the final five books of Invincible because flicking through the last one got me a taste for it.

The matter of Mark being as strong against as he is Thragg is really kinda bullshit.

It is justified in the text as to why, but it is bullshit.

You'll recall I mentioned that the first time Invincible fought Thragg he, and other people above his level, were literally torn apart.

Well, a much stronger Invincible a few volumes before the end of the series, Thragg fought Mark again and /literally tore him in half/ with ease. He was saved by Eve and, upon rebuilding both of their bodies, Mark is like "Oh, did you make me stronger," and Eve is like "Yes, you are stronger now,"

Basically the next serious fight he has is with Thragg and he does WAY better.

So whatever Eve did, pushed Mark from "be essentially wet tissue paper before Thragg," to "extended fistfight inside the corona and briefly on the surface of the sun,"

I mean, it's still a good comic overall but that's... kind of bullshit.

[The Drunkard Kid]

ISTR Thor once oneshotting Black Bolt by damaging his antennae thing and causing his powers to go haywire in a way that was torturing him without causing him to scream, but I don't recall if that was because it rendered him incapable of using his voice or because his training was sufficient to keep him from involuntarily activating his voice even while he was writhing in agony.

[Firefist Norrin]

So, after work today, I read the final five books of Invincible because flicking through the last one got me a taste for it.

The matter of Mark being as strong against as he is Thragg is really kinda bullshit.

It is justified in the text as to why, but it is bullshit.

You'll recall I mentioned that the first time Invincible fought Thragg he, and other people above his level, were literally torn apart.

Well, a much stronger Invincible a few volumes before the end of the series, Thragg fought Mark again and /literally tore him in half/ with ease. He was saved by Eve and, upon rebuilding both of their bodies, Mark is like "Oh, did you make me stronger," and Eve is like "Yes, you are stronger now,"

Basically the next serious fight he has is with Thragg and he does WAY better.

So whatever Eve did, pushed Mark from "be essentially wet tissue paper before Thragg," to "extended fistfight inside the corona and briefly on the surface of the sun,"

I mean, it's still a good comic overall but that's... kind of bullshit.

Did Eve give him his Zenkai boost before or after the weird mini-reboot?

[Nik Hasta]

Did Eve give him his Zenkai boost before or after the weird mini-reboot?

It was after.

[Firefist Norrin]

It was after.

Ah. Then I'll bet it has something to do with the obscure, handbook-and-not-series-mentioned Smart Atoms and Eve's own powers.

[Captain Morgan]

Eve had kind of a plot device thing going where she had mental blocks that stopped her from altering living organic matter, but when those blocks were removed she became pretty god hax. And those blocks were twice temporarily removed when Viltrulmites tore her apart. She did much better the second time it happened, which I guess you could chalk up to experience.

That said, I can see calling bull **** on it. I think Kirkman might have wrote himself into a corner with how strong and competent Thragg was initially. I remember thinking that Thragg revealing his reasons for killing Nolan seemed pretty dumb, and that it didn't seem like he should have been taken down by the other Viltrulmites dog piling him.

At any rate, Mark is at least a low end class 100 by the end of the series and very very fast. I'd argue he probably hit class 100 before his first fight with Thragg-- shoving planets around isn't really the normal bar for entry into class 100, it is something extremely high end ones do. But Mark had been tanking nukes to the face without damage for a long time, and he and his peers were still literally tearing each other apart with their bare hands.

Like, I'd compare early Mark to Namor or Post Crisis Wonder Woman for strength without thinking too hard about it, and at the point he becomes a credible threat to Thragg I'd argue he's past them.

Or perhaps as more relevant benchmark, Mark seems stronger and more durable than Black Bolt does.

[Mider2009]

Then how strong and durable does invincible seem to be during his run?

[Dark Soul # 7]

So basically Mark should be strong enough to hurt Blackagar (unless we're missing some big durability feat), maybe not enough to knock him out with one punch but he'll certainly do some damage with his speed advantage.

And if Blackagar can survive the initial blitz long enough to get off a scream I'm pretty sure that Mark can zip out its range and then start blitzing again. Rinse and repeat until he wins.

I also feel that we don't mention Black Bolt's real name often enough.

[Nik Hasta]

Then how strong and durable does invincible seem to be during his run?

Mountain moving in terms of strength, one would presume a bit above that given the scaling of his ambiguous powerup. Able to tear apart massively durable opponents with his bare hands.

In terms of durability; city glassing explosions do nothing more than make him woozy, nukes do literally nothing to him, survived being in the corona of and temporarily on the surface of the sun, though it really messed him up to do it that last one.

[Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh]

More than messed him up. Had Allen not shown up when he did, he would've died. Did fight for awhile after taking the dip however.

[Captain Morgan]

I also had a hard time telling how far into the sun they went. I remember not being sure if they were on the Corona and fighting on the surface, or inside the surface and fighting on and near an inner layer. The art felt ambiguous and it was never addressed in the narrative.

At any rate, I feel like it is a better durability feat than "has been punched by strong guys before," which is most of Bolt's stuff.

[Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh]

I also had a hard time telling how far into the sun they went. I remember not being sure if they were on the Corona and fighting on the surface, or inside the surface and fighting on and near an inner layer. The art felt ambiguous and it was never addressed in the narrative.

At any rate, I feel like it is a better durability feat than "has been punched by strong guys before," which is most of Bolt's stuff.

Well Invincible like, grabbed Thragg and dipped him into something, so I'd assume they were far enough in to be dealing with plasma or what have you.

Pretty good feat, even if it was his 'limit'.

[Captain Morgan]

Well Invincible like, grabbed Thragg and dipped him into something, so I'd assume they were far enough in to be dealing with plasma or what have you.

Pretty good feat, even if it was his 'limit'.

Right, but they are already seemed to be somewhere in the vague area of "in the sun" and then shoving each others faces into that denser ball of plasma. It was pretty intense.