Invincible vs Black Bolt

[Captain Morgan]

I'd argue that his durability is kinda ****, but his regen allows him to power through.

Not seriously argue, cuz I'm lazy... but you can't change my mind!

*hisses and skitters through a hole in the wall*

He's definitely no Superman for raw durability.

[The Arbiter]

I'd argue that his durability is kinda ****, but his regen allows him to power through.

Not seriously argue, cuz I'm lazy... but you can't change my mind!

*hisses and skitters through a hole in the wall*

I dont disagree!

*sprays Raid into hole*

[Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh]

I dont disagree!

*sprays Raid into hole*

*suffers A LOTTA DAMAGE™ but regens just fine*

... as for the fight proper.

I feel like Invincible should be able to blitz just fine. Were that not the case, it'd be Boltagon with the dubs.

[Firefist Norrin]

Which planetary blast did Invincible survive? If you're talking about the one that blew up the Vitrumite (sp?) Homeworld, ISTR that that feat was him and his dad (along with one other guy on their approximate tier) flying down at full speed through a tunnel that they were burning through the planet using Omniman's old enemy's super-gun and flying out of the blast radius before it could hit them, with Omniman specifically cautioning Invincible to avoid touching the walls of the hole that they were digging because that would instantly kill him, or something to that extent. Of course, considering how his genes work, he should be notably stronger now than he was at that time, so maybe he got a better feat later on.

Also, putting Blackagar Boltogon (sp?) somewhere without oxygen shouldn't really prevent him from screaming since his power is not an actual scream so much as an uncontrollable and super-duper-powerful expression of his electron manipulation powers that happens to be connected to the speech center of his brain. Or was it his vocal cords? In either case, he should be able to AOE the moon before he suffocates to death, unless he got a downgrade (which I think he might have).

That said, I don't know how much credence I'd give to Blackbolt staying conscious long enough to do anything, since there's a big difference from taking one or two punches from Hulk and staying conscious and taking a thousand punches to the temple/groin/eyes/nosebone/etc...from someone in Hulk's weight class before you know that the fight has started. And that's discounting that Normal Hulk and Gladiator/Thanos are only nominally in the same strength tier, with Thanos especially treating Hulk-class opponents like garbage and winning a fist fight against a guy who can tear apart stars with his bare hands, in a battle that caused a nearby moon to explode from the backwash of their trading blows with one another, which sounds like it's comfortably in the "splatter Black Bolt or Invincible with a lovetap" tier.

I keep forgetting this. Invincible is tricky because he's basically a flying brick's physicals superimposed onto a speedster's combat methods. I don't know that any flying bricks in Marvel or DC have been portrayed to physically fight as quickly as in Invincible... maybe I'm wrong, but I think one fight between some Viltrumites was observed as FTE by some onlookers. They're almost DBZish.

[Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh]

I keep forgetting this. Invincible is tricky because he's basically a flying brick's physicals superimposed onto a speedster's combat methods. I don't know that any flying bricks in Marvel or DC have been portrayed to physically fight as quickly as in Invincible... maybe I'm wrong, but I think one fight between some Viltrumites was observed as FTE by some onlookers. They're almost DBZish.

Silver Surfer is a Superman+ level brick that tends to rely on his speed.

Look at his utter manhandling of Beta Ray Bill for example. Slapped that boy up so hard he was apologizing after each cross.

[Firefist Norrin]

Silver Surfer is a Superman+ level brick that tends to rely on his speed.

Look at his utter manhandling of Beta Ray Bill for example. Slapped that boy up so hard he was apologizing after each cross.

While that's true, would you really classify Surfer as a flying brick? Or someone way more versatile who just so happens to be able to also physically outmatch flying bricks?

[Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh]

While that's true, would you really classify Surfer as a flying brick? Or someone way more versatile who just so happens to be able to also physically outmatch flying bricks?

I mean when he can ignore punches from She Hulk and manhandle planet busters, he's a brick. He just so happens to be that, and so much more. Like a Swiss Army Brick.

[Captain Morgan]

Silver Surfer is a Superman+ level brick that tends to rely on his speed.

Look at his utter manhandling of Beta Ray Bill for example. Slapped that boy up so hard he was apologizing after each cross.

Nah, Surfer doesn't tend to utilize his speed in combat. At least no more than Superman or various other characters with speed on top of a bunch of other powers. I think Viltrulmites generally fight with less PIS. None of that is especially relevant on our board, though, where no one forgets their speed.

[Firefist Norrin]

I mean when he can ignore punches from She Hulk and manhandle planet busters, he's a brick. He just so happens to be that, and so much more. Like a Swiss Army Brick.

I think we may have just said the same thing.

[Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh]

Nah, Surfer doesn't tend to utilize his speed in combat. At least no more than Superman or various other characters with speed on top of a bunch of other powers. I think Viltrulmites generally fight with less PIS. None of that is especially relevant on our board, though, where no one forgets their speed.

Eh, I mean Surfer tends to use his speed more than the usual. Smashes through prison walls that are made of true adamantium or whatever, blitzes through starships, etc.

I think we may have just said the same thing.

Nah, cuz you wouldn't classify him as a brick; and I would.

[Captain Morgan]

Eh, I mean Surfer tends to use his speed more than the usual. Smashes through prison walls that are made of true adamantium or whatever, blitzes through starships, etc.



Nah, cuz you wouldn't classify him as a brick; and I would.

I really don't think so. Yes, he has absurdly good speed feats, but they aren't that high on the ratio of his appearances to be considered above average for frequency. He has exceptional quality, not quantity. Like, he doesn't use his speed in the Beta Ray Bill fight you cite. He just gets him from behind with his board and then punches him real hard.

All speesdters have PIS, but generally most characters who aren't just speedsters (like Flash and Quicksilver) barely use their speed in fights comparative to their ratio of appearances or how early and often it would come in handy. Invincible, as a series, does a little better because ithe fights tens to fall into 3 categories:

1) Fights where the hero is fighting more fragile characters who will probably be splattered if he moves too fast.

2) Fights where a villain is going for the kill and just blitzes people's heads off.

3) Super speed bricks throwing down at super speed.

It isn't without PIS, but it uses less than mainstream Marvel and DC. I think largely because it is more self contained. A shorter run plus less of a shared universe means it can break the status quo and kill Batman when he tries to get involee in a fight between Kryptonians.

Similar to why manga protagonists use their speed more, really.

[Cronus]

I agree particularly with Surfy has some really nice quality FTL reaction feats. But I'm guessing there are maybe a handful of writers around that still remember how incredibly fast and reactive he is on his board. I might define the Surfers reaction speed more in terms of his ability to maneuver his limbs and body while on his board in agile ways, sort of like the pro surfers that do tricks on their boards in a way that almost defies physics.

Side note: I suppose I agree with Cthulu on Hulks durability. Much of Hulks durability seems more based on crazy regen feats as opposed to invulnerability. Still catching up on Immortal Hulk, so mileage may vary.

[big_adventure]

This is viable though the match settings raise a couple of questions.

If the fight takes place on the moon but BFR is disallowed, what happens if the moon is destroyed by Black Bolt yelling enough? Technically they've both been R-ed from the BF at that point. Do they just continue fighting space until Black Bolt asphyxiates?

Don't think BB would asphyxiate: he used to fly from the moon to earth just fine under his own power from time to time.

Isn't Invincible rocking class 100 strength and light-speed-ish superspeed? That's more than enough to blitz BB and make it stick.

[Nik Hasta]

Don't think BB would asphyxiate: he used to fly from the moon to earth just fine under his own power from time to time.

I've never seen him flying in space and I recall him having breathing stuff.

I mean, I could perfectly buy him using his electron powers to survive or something, I've just never seen him do it myself and didn't wish to assume.

A standard Viltrumite can hold their breath comfortably for two weeks.

Isn't Invincible rocking class 100 strength and light-speed-ish superspeed? That's more than enough to blitz BB and make it stick.

He's... not quite either of those things.

He's not got the planet moving feats and such like of the higher level Class 100, he can shift mountains easily enough. His wrestling with Conquest in their second fight literally levelled most of a small mountain range from the force of their exertions and he and his brother together could through an aircraft carrier size space ship into orbit with not a huge amount of effort.

At that level, Thragg was capable of utterly manhandling him and his father and tearing them apart pretty easily.

By the series end he was close enough to Thragg that he had an extended fistfight with him on the surface of the sun. Flicking through the comic itself, it seems that Thragg was still stronger, his punches were doing more damage certainly. So... while he's in the Class 100 bracket, it's kind of ambiguous as to how far up he goes.

Combat speed is definitely significant fraction of lightspeed. How much, oooff, that's tough to figure out.

Going into a meeting but I'm happy to talk through some of the relevant feats this afternoon.

[big_adventure]

That should be fast enough to do the blitz. BB is tough, but as I connected years ago, he's got 99 powers but the blitz ain't one. "Fraction of light speed" means Mark hits BB thousands or more times before he can react, and BB, while tough, isn't tanking even 1000 class 90 punches without going down. Diet Coke class 100 with thousands of punches is turning him into paste.