Yeah, but if you... man, we're getting into weird analogy territory, like if you disintegrated Superman's arms he wouldn't be able to go "fool! Little did you know that my arms and I are one and can be remade from me!" and will his arms back into being from pure nothingness. - Pendaran
Arx Inosaan
I keep forgetting this. Invincible is tricky because he's basically a flying brick's physicals superimposed onto a speedster's combat methods. I don't know that any flying bricks in Marvel or DC have been portrayed to physically fight as quickly as in Invincible... maybe I'm wrong, but I think one fight between some Viltrumites was observed as FTE by some onlookers. They're almost DBZish.
Yeah, but if you... man, we're getting into weird analogy territory, like if you disintegrated Superman's arms he wouldn't be able to go "fool! Little did you know that my arms and I are one and can be remade from me!" and will his arms back into being from pure nothingness. - Pendaran
Arx Inosaan
Yeah, but if you... man, we're getting into weird analogy territory, like if you disintegrated Superman's arms he wouldn't be able to go "fool! Little did you know that my arms and I are one and can be remade from me!" and will his arms back into being from pure nothingness. - Pendaran
Arx Inosaan
Nah, Surfer doesn't tend to utilize his speed in combat. At least no more than Superman or various other characters with speed on top of a bunch of other powers. I think Viltrulmites generally fight with less PIS. None of that is especially relevant on our board, though, where no one forgets their speed.
Eh, I mean Surfer tends to use his speed more than the usual. Smashes through prison walls that are made of true adamantium or whatever, blitzes through starships, etc.
Nah, cuz you wouldn't classify him as a brick; and I would.
Yeah, but if you... man, we're getting into weird analogy territory, like if you disintegrated Superman's arms he wouldn't be able to go "fool! Little did you know that my arms and I are one and can be remade from me!" and will his arms back into being from pure nothingness. - Pendaran
Arx Inosaan
I really don't think so. Yes, he has absurdly good speed feats, but they aren't that high on the ratio of his appearances to be considered above average for frequency. He has exceptional quality, not quantity. Like, he doesn't use his speed in the Beta Ray Bill fight you cite. He just gets him from behind with his board and then punches him real hard.
All speesdters have PIS, but generally most characters who aren't just speedsters (like Flash and Quicksilver) barely use their speed in fights comparative to their ratio of appearances or how early and often it would come in handy. Invincible, as a series, does a little better because ithe fights tens to fall into 3 categories:
1) Fights where the hero is fighting more fragile characters who will probably be splattered if he moves too fast.
2) Fights where a villain is going for the kill and just blitzes people's heads off.
3) Super speed bricks throwing down at super speed.
It isn't without PIS, but it uses less than mainstream Marvel and DC. I think largely because it is more self contained. A shorter run plus less of a shared universe means it can break the status quo and kill Batman when he tries to get involee in a fight between Kryptonians.
Similar to why manga protagonists use their speed more, really.
I agree particularly with Surfy has some really nice quality FTL reaction feats. But I'm guessing there are maybe a handful of writers around that still remember how incredibly fast and reactive he is on his board. I might define the Surfers reaction speed more in terms of his ability to maneuver his limbs and body while on his board in agile ways, sort of like the pro surfers that do tricks on their boards in a way that almost defies physics.
Side note: I suppose I agree with Cthulu on Hulks durability. Much of Hulks durability seems more based on crazy regen feats as opposed to invulnerability. Still catching up on Immortal Hulk, so mileage may vary.
Last edited by Cronus; 05-18-2020 at 09:10 PM.
"Sir, does this mean that Ann Margret's not coming?"
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"One of the maddening but beautiful things about comics is that you have to give characters a sense of change without changing them so much that they violate the essence of who they are." ~ Ann Nocenti, Chris Claremont's X-Men.
"But... But I want to be a big karate cyborg... ;_;" - Nik Hasta
"Get off my lawn! ...on this forum, that just makes people think of Cyclops." - Sharpandpointies
"...makes me think the Night King just says "Screw the rules, I have magic money" when it comes to physics." -Captain Morgan
I've never seen him flying in space and I recall him having breathing stuff.
I mean, I could perfectly buy him using his electron powers to survive or something, I've just never seen him do it myself and didn't wish to assume.
A standard Viltrumite can hold their breath comfortably for two weeks.
He's... not quite either of those things.Isn't Invincible rocking class 100 strength and light-speed-ish superspeed? That's more than enough to blitz BB and make it stick.
He's not got the planet moving feats and such like of the higher level Class 100, he can shift mountains easily enough. His wrestling with Conquest in their second fight literally levelled most of a small mountain range from the force of their exertions and he and his brother together could through an aircraft carrier size space ship into orbit with not a huge amount of effort.
At that level, Thragg was capable of utterly manhandling him and his father and tearing them apart pretty easily.
By the series end he was close enough to Thragg that he had an extended fistfight with him on the surface of the sun. Flicking through the comic itself, it seems that Thragg was still stronger, his punches were doing more damage certainly. So... while he's in the Class 100 bracket, it's kind of ambiguous as to how far up he goes.
Combat speed is definitely significant fraction of lightspeed. How much, oooff, that's tough to figure out.
Going into a meeting but I'm happy to talk through some of the relevant feats this afternoon.
That should be fast enough to do the blitz. BB is tough, but as I connected years ago, he's got 99 powers but the blitz ain't one. "Fraction of light speed" means Mark hits BB thousands or more times before he can react, and BB, while tough, isn't tanking even 1000 class 90 punches without going down. Diet Coke class 100 with thousands of punches is turning him into paste.
"But... But I want to be a big karate cyborg... ;_;" - Nik Hasta
"Get off my lawn! ...on this forum, that just makes people think of Cyclops." - Sharpandpointies
"...makes me think the Night King just says "Screw the rules, I have magic money" when it comes to physics." -Captain Morgan