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  1. #1
    Astonishing Member manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Default If lex luthor was truly altruistic, would he be a better superman than clark?

    As the title suggests, would the ultimate self made man be more super than Superman himself? Your thoughts. It might not be a competition.But,we can judge it like one. Can't we?

  2. #2
    Extraordinary Member Jackalope89's Avatar
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    Being altruistic is one thing. But that wouldn't negate his narcissism, which is one of the main things holding him back. And being a high functioning psychopath.

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    As the title suggests, would the ultimate self made man be more super than Superman himself? Your thoughts. It might not be a competition.But,we can judge it like one. Can't we?
    a heroic Lex would basically be like Batman, who's both in and out of universe kinda the go-to for human powerless heroes. Well I guess you could argue that Lex is usually more self made than Bruce who usually inherits his cash. But besides that detail, Batman does rival (and in some ways surpass) Superman in a lot of ways. But I guess it's not just power that makes Superman shine, it's also his personality. Would altruistic Lex still be an asshole like in post forever evil phase? That kinda might stunt him in the public eye the way it does with MHA's Endevor. So it really depends on how different good guy Lex is, and what we are measuring that would make him better or worse than Superman.

  4. #4
    Astonishing Member DochaDocha's Avatar
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    One of the broken aspects of Superman, and perhaps a reason why some writers choose to present Superman as a dumb jock, is that he has greater potential intellect than Luthor. The best thing Luthor does, Superman technically can do better. So if both men did everything the same, Superman is going to do it better. Luthor's ability to surpass Superman in one field would be the result of extra concentration in that one specific thing while Superman spreads himself thin. So if you take the representation of Superman who's god tier at everything, the answer is no. If you take a more simple-minded version of Superman, the answer becomes less clear.

  5. #5
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Clark has said in the past that if Lex wasn't so obsessed with himself and beating Superman that he could truly save the world and be "better" in all the ways he claims to be, but it never really takes (aside from the end of All-Star).

  6. #6
    Savior of the Universe Flash Gordon's Avatar
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    No, he's a rich ass dude who wants things to revolve around him.

  7. #7
    Father Son Kamehameha < Kuwagaton's Avatar
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    He's either a really bad person with virtually zero to twenty percent humanity, or an intially helpful and maybe hopeful guy who just flips over dumb stuff to an absurd degree. So I say no, but it's not hard to imagine someone with that impression or take on him.
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  8. #8
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    If he was altruistic...he wouldn't be Lex. Man's a self serving asshat, that's what makes him Lex.

  9. #9
    Astonishing Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    Yeah, I'm having a problem imagining an altruistic Lex. The closest I got is Tony Stark. So I guess no.

  10. #10
    Astonishing Member Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    If he was altruistic...he wouldn't be Lex. Man's a self serving asshat, that's what makes him Lex.
    Pretty much this.

  11. #11
    Astonishing Member manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    I can imagine an altruistic lex luthor. And that existed in injustice, i believe. Its easy. Narcissistic tendencies is a good argument. No way is lex's narcissistic tending are like tony.Lex may underestimate or devalue people. But, he is more pragmatic . And besides , that's not a limiter on being superman. It's just a flaw he will have to get over. Btw, i wasn't asking about the powers. I was talking about his philosophy. The guy literally went from nothing to richest dude with nothing but intelligence and self determination. Btw, a bald dude was the original superman.Finally, doesn't superman believe there is "good" in everyone? Lex is hard working, survivor, intelligent, resourceful, weak in all most every way, has will power, tenacious, self determined,... Etc.Imagine all that energy was spunoff after he got to the top. As being an elite,i see that more in clark now.
    Last edited by manwhohaseverything; 05-19-2020 at 09:29 PM.

  12. #12
    THE MARK OF MY DIGNITY Superlad93's Avatar
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    Most evidence points to the idea that Lex's actually owes his level of innovation and persistence to Superman being the carrot he chases. Lex is really smart, yeah, but he'd never have hit upon his greatest inventions and breakthroughs had they not been a means to and end to kill, piss off, or humiliate Superman. Superman is Lex's muse/inspiration, and nearly all incarnations support this idea.

    That's the tragedy that Clark doesn't understand because he's not self centered enough to assume that this is where Lex's brilliance at its apex comes from.
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  13. #13
    Astonishing Member manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superlad93 View Post
    Most evidence points to the idea that Lex's actually owes his level of innovation and persistence to Superman being the carrot he chases. Lex is really smart, yeah, but he'd never have hit upon his greatest inventions and breakthroughs had they not been a means to and end to kill, piss off, or humiliate Superman. Superman is Lex's muse/inspiration, and nearly all incarnations support this idea.

    That's the tragedy that Clark doesn't understand because he's not self centered enough to assume that this is where Lex's brilliance at its apex comes from.
    Not really, lex was billionaire before clark arrives in Metropolis. He just gets pissed off cause an alien who doesn't work, doesn't need anything gets all the glory. He got nothing. For me, if lex had handled his envy and was altruistic. He is a better protagonist .

    He has everything a true superman needs in my eye. A superman isn't someone who ignores his weakness. He is someone who make them into strength. He would have become like a tree who planted his roots down into the abyss and reached for the sky. Rather than an eagle that soars above.

  14. #14
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    Are you kidding!! NO WAY!!

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    Not really, lex was billionaire before clark arrives in Metropolis. He just gets pissed off cause an alien who doesn't work, doesn't need anything gets all the glory. He got nothing. For me, if lex had handled his envy and was altruistic. He is a better protagonist .

    He has everything a true superman needs in my eye. A superman isn't someone who ignores his weakness. He is someone who make them into strength. He would have become like a tree who planted his roots down into the abyss and reached for the sky. Rather than an eagle that soars above.
    The thing that was never clear after Crisis was just how Lex became a billionaire. We are told he got the money from his parents' insurance and then designed an airplane (the Lex-wing) that was the foundation of Lexcorp. But how much of Lexcorp's day-to-day business resulted from Lex's continuing efforts and how much was just inertia wasn't clear. He seemed in many stories to be more of a businessman/politician than a scientific genius.

    Pre-Crisis Lex was an idiot in a lot of ways. LIke Marv Wolfman said he'd have made a lot more money selling his inventions than using them to rob banks. But you never doubted that Pre-Crisis Lex had the potential to solve a lot of world problems (diseases, food shortages, natural disasters) if he had put his mind to it. Up until the period right before Flashpoint his post-Crisis didn't strike me as a guy with that potential. He was smart but more in a chess-moves and battle plans way than as an inventor/scientist. I think that the Byrne/Wolfman Luthor might fund hundreds of charitable causes if he'd been altruisitic but not really do anything on the level of what Superman could do.

    The current Lex has the problem that he is a leech. His current abilities are from Perpetua and wouldn't have been given to an altruistic Luthor. A lot of his other "great" achievements also are the result of manipulating events in a way that an altruisitic person wouldn't. An altruisitc Lex could have outdone Superman on Apokalips with those "Lexorians" but an altruistic Lex would never have been in a position to lead those people. He wouldn't have stolen the work of others to advance LexCorp thus preventing him from funding any projects.

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