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  1. #241
    Astonishing Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    It's her back story. It's not like she's gonna be a drug runner once she becomes Batwoman.

    I think

    Unless the concept is she's a street Batwoman instead of rich Batwoman

    I mean it's not like she became a drug runner because she wants to control people. This is actually what some people want from a Bat hero, someone who's not from a rich family, someone who gets that people became criminals because of circumstances. Answering the criticism that Batman is a rich guy punching poor people.

    I mean in the story, the Bat-family get that, Bruce fund a lot of charity, Dick set up shop among the poorer district, and Selina is all about protecting the forgotten, but that's not immediately visible to people not reading comics.

    This is more direct.

    At least, I hope that's what the showrunner's going for.

  2. #242
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    Quote Originally Posted by Restingvoice View Post
    It's her back story. It's not like she's gonna be a drug runner once she becomes Batwoman.

    I think

    Unless the concept is she's a street Batwoman instead of rich Batwoman

    I mean it's not like she became a drug runner because she wants to control people. This is actually what some people want from a Bat hero, someone who's not from a rich family, someone who gets that people became criminals because of circumstances. Answering the criticism that Batman is a rich guy punching poor people.

    I mean in the story, the Bat-family get that, Bruce fund a lot of charity, Dick set up shop among the poorer district, and Selina is all about protecting the forgotten, but that's not immediately visible to people not reading comics.

    This is more direct.

    At least, I hope that's what the showrunner's going for.
    The Batfamily have members that come from the lower class. Stephanie and jason grew up with drug-addicted mothers and criminal fathers. Selina defends the East End which is home to Gotham's Red Light District. Orpheus was controlling the gangs.

  3. #243
    Incredible Member Gotham citizen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Restingvoice View Post
    […]
    This is actually what some people want from a Bat hero, someone who's not from a rich family, someone who gets that people became criminals because of circumstances. Answering the criticism that Batman is a rich guy punching poor people.
    […]
    Seeing how many books Batman sells alone and how many books all the other bat-characters put together sell, I think there are very few people who ask that question.

  4. #244
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bob.schoonover View Post
    Don't get me wrong, I'm clearly in the "re-cast Kate, you fools" camp. I just wonder how much the "log line" description will match reality. They have plenty of time to change it/tweak it since they've obviously not started shooting yet.
    The description has been around since the early murmurings of the new character. That it is still intact for an official casting announcement tells me that it's still accurate for what the creators are going for.
    And while this is, in many ways neither here nor there, it's worth noting that there is not a "stereotypical" (misbegotten youth/criminal) Black hero in the Arrowverse (am I forgetting someone?). One could see where the showrunners or network think they've got the slack to do this because they've effectively avoided the trap for so long. This is not a defense of the choice (which we still need to see executed before excoriating too much), but what I imagine might be the rationalization
    I don't think that makes it any less problematic. Especially in 2020.
    Quote Originally Posted by Immortal Weapon View Post
    I don't have an issue at all with her background. Your stereotype is my reality. I grew up with and been those type of people my entire life. Reading that background only made me think she's a lousy criminal. You were a drug runner and living in your van? Smh
    Realism aside, it just feels like bad optics for your new lead character of a Superhero show.

  5. #245
    Extraordinary Member dietrich's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amadeus Arkham View Post
    I don’t really watch this show but it fascinates me that showrunners have made a situation such as the star leaving their show needlessly complicated with their confusing decision to create an original character from scratch, and have her replace the old character from the comics.
    Couldn't agree more. Who asked for this?
    Why do this? It's not like it's unusual for tv shows to recast actors midway through a series. This was a non-issue turned into a disaster.

  6. #246
    Incredible Member Bat-Meal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dietrich View Post
    Couldn't agree more. Who asked for this?
    Why do this? It's not like it's unusual for tv shows to recast actors midway through a series. This was a non-issue turned into a disaster.
    Maybe they wanted to burn bridges with the bulk of the existing fan-base - it's the only scenario that makes sense. Those that they gain or retain are unlikely to outnumber those that depart.

    The fact remains that the first season had Kate Kane, her supporting characters, and she was part of the COIEs. CW can erase her all they want and pretend she never existed in the Arrowverse, even try to turn her into a villain, but the OC's foundation will always be built off of who was there before her.

    This wouldn't even be a situation if they'd started with the OC from day one, instead of introduce a comics character and then replace her hastily with the least amount of respect possible to both fan-base and character.

  7. #247
    Extraordinary Member dietrich's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bat-Meal View Post
    Maybe they wanted to burn bridges with the bulk of the existing fan-base - it's the only scenario that makes sense. Those that they gain or retain are unlikely to outnumber those that depart.

    The fact remains that the first season had Kate Kane, her supporting characters, and she was part of the COIEs. CW can erase her all they want and pretend she never existed in the Arrowverse, even try to turn her into a villain, but the OC's foundation will always be built off of who was there before her.

    This wouldn't even be a situation if they'd started with the OC from day one, instead of introduce a comics character and then replace her hastily with the least amount of respect possible to both fan-base and character.
    It's annoying. They are going out of their way to create issues where there shouldn't be any.
    Not to mention that they are hobbling a character that the wider non comic reading audience was becoming aware of before she's had a chance to gain traction.

    DC/WB most times are their own worst enemy.

    There was literally no need to do this. Not only are they pissing off the Kate fans, this move isn't going to sway naysayers or attract anyone who wasn't already interested.

    They are going back to square one infact because the viewers who have been enjoying this show were enjoying the original setup. This new direction is going to have a new vibe.

    This also screws any chance of audience transfer [I know that barely happens]since it'll now deviate too much from the comic counterpart

  8. #248
    Incredible Member Bat-Meal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dietrich View Post
    It's annoying. They are going out of their way to create issues where there shouldn't be any.
    Not to mention that they are hobbling a character that the wider non comic reading audience was becoming aware of before she's had a chance to gain traction.

    DC/WB most times are their own worst enemy.

    There was literally no need to do this. Not only are they pissing off the Kate fans, this move isn't going to sway naysayers or attract anyone who wasn't already interested.

    They are going back to square one infact because the viewers who have been enjoying this show were enjoying the original setup. This new direction is going to have a new vibe.

    This also screws any chance of audience transfer [I know that barely happens]since it'll now deviate too much from the comic counterpart
    And to top it all off, this new OC creates a bitter after-taste by the circumstances of her creation.

    If they'd started with her in the first place, I could have accepted the Arrowverse version of Batwoman as an elseworlds, but in this case she is a forced replacement that the fan-base never asked for.

    They had other options, they could have used Sophie, Julia, even Mary if need be. Or swapped to a Batwing show. All better options IMO.

  9. #249
    Put a smile on that face Immortal Weapon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post

    Realism aside, it just feels like bad optics for your new lead character of a Superhero show.
    I don't think it is. It's not like she's staying a drug runner. Not to mention her background will be ripe for story material for her personal life. Not just the standard CW relationship garbage.

  10. #250
    Incredible Member signalman112's Avatar
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    Disappointing!
    I was hoping they would introduce Luke's sister Tiffany and she becomes the new BATWOMAN to honor her late Father.

    TiffanyFoxBatgirl.jpg

  11. #251
    Incredible Member Bat-Meal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by signalman112 View Post
    Disappointing!
    I was hoping they would introduce Luke's sister Tiffany and she becomes the new BATWOMAN to honor her late Father.

    TiffanyFoxBatgirl.jpg
    Is she a lesbian? CW wanted the Batwoman licence so they could brag about having a lesbian superhero show. Any lesbian will do, as long as she is one...well, as long as she is one that they made-up because apparently Sophie and Julia who were already established on the show weren't 'good enough'.

    I think Sophie might be bi, not sure about Julia - but they both exist in the comics, just like Luke who they could have made Batwing, or Mary/Bette who they could have made Flamebird. They had sooo many better options for a replacement lead. And yes, Tiffany would also have made more sense than 'Ryan'.

    Oh well, unless that news I read a while back about the way these shows will have to be filmed now has changed, they won't be much good anyway, and that includes the rest of the Arrowverse sadly. It makes sense of course, we are in a pandemic, but a superhero show with no close combat or intimate scenes seems redundant IMO. Better off going with animation, in which case they wouldn't 'need' to replace Kate anyway.

  12. #252
    Astonishing Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bat-Meal View Post
    Is she a lesbian? CW wanted the Batwoman licence so they could brag about having a lesbian superhero show. Any lesbian will do, as long as she is one...well, as long as she is one that they made-up because apparently Sophie and Julia who were already established on the show weren't 'good enough'.

    I think Sophie might be bi, not sure about Julia - but they both exist in the comics, just like Luke who they could have made Batwing, or Mary/Bette who they could have made Flamebird. They had sooo many better options for a replacement lead. And yes, Tiffany would also have made more sense than 'Ryan'.

    Oh well, unless that news I read a while back about the way these shows will have to be filmed now has changed, they won't be much good anyway, and that includes the rest of the Arrowverse sadly. It makes sense of course, we are in a pandemic, but a superhero show with no close combat or intimate scenes seems redundant IMO. Better off going with animation, in which case they wouldn't 'need' to replace Kate anyway.
    Tiffany was still a toddler in New 52. The Batgirl version is in Futures End where she appears only as a crimefighter. She's an adult in Telltale Batman working as a Wayne Enterprises scientist prodigy replacing her father but I didn't pay attention if there's a talk about her personal life.

  13. #253
    Incredible Member Gotham citizen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bat-Meal View Post
    Is she a lesbian? CW wanted the Batwoman licence so they could brag about having a lesbian superhero show.
    […]
    If she isn't they can make her lesbian.

  14. #254
    Incredible Member Bat-Meal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gotham citizen View Post
    If she isn't they can make her lesbian.
    They won't though, they specifically said they were making an OC, and Tiffany is from the comics and a game.

    IMO they should have just made a spin-off for their OC and make-up their own title for her - but they only care about the Bat-brand for the cash grab which is why they are doing this. Even though they have alienated most of the existing fan-base now.
    I wouldn't even trust them to respect their own OC after this, they could throw her under a bus too, as soon as she gets problematic for them.

  15. #255
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    Quote Originally Posted by Restingvoice View Post
    It's her back story. It's not like she's gonna be a drug runner once she becomes Batwoman.

    I think

    Unless the concept is she's a street Batwoman instead of rich Batwoman

    I mean it's not like she became a drug runner because she wants to control people. This is actually what some people want from a Bat hero, someone who's not from a rich family, someone who gets that people became criminals because of circumstances. Answering the criticism that Batman is a rich guy punching poor people.

    I mean in the story, the Bat-family get that, Bruce fund a lot of charity, Dick set up shop among the poorer district, and Selina is all about protecting the forgotten, but that's not immediately visible to people not reading comics.

    This is more direct.

    At least, I hope that's what the showrunner's going for.
    It is not like that Batman does not get that "people became criminals because of circumstances"

    And if someone thinks "that Batman is a rich guy punching poor people" they know nothing about the character.

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