Page 7 of 7 FirstFirst ... 34567
Results 91 to 104 of 104
  1. #91

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Samm View Post
    Black Lightning (though it sometimes has annoying political racial undertones)
    You do realize that Black Lightening is a black man and he has to deal with real world racial politics? Which is why the series partly works. Or that Batwoman is an out lesbian and has to deal with LGBT issues. Just because you don't like them or find them annoying that is a huge part of these characters' identities. If this offends you then don't watch them I like the shows because they are woke and deal with real world issues. I also got news for you: woke sells.

  2. #92
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    5,203

    Default

    Ugh, people whining about MoS and Snyder for the trillionth time, people whining about CW and Supergirl. Seriously, can nobody accept that no fan base is united in what they like and expect from a character and that maybe the people with different views from you aren't wrong? You just have different takes despite all liking Superman, hell I like both MoS and Supergirl for the flawed but (for me) enjoyable things they are. Would Superman really approve of this level of vitriol?

  3. #93
    Fantastic Member Samm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Posts
    393

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyberstrike View Post
    You do realize that Black Lightening is a black man and he has to deal with real world racial politics? Which is why the series partly works. Or that Batwoman is an out lesbian and has to deal with LGBT issues. Just because you don't like them or find them annoying that is a huge part of these characters' identities. If this offends you then don't watch them I like the shows because they are woke and deal with real world issues. I also got news for you: woke sells.
    I don’t a problem with them addressing those issues, I have a problem with how they do it. Batwoman and Black Lightning are great characters and yes their race/sexual orientation are a big part of their experience but at the end of the day, they’re so much more than that! The CW has a very bad track record with addressing those issues anyway and it all comes down to the writing! Want a good depiction of an LGBT character, watch Umbrella Academy (Klaus) or Doom Patrol (Negative Man), now those characters are well written people you want to cheer on! I don’t have an example of racial politics in a superhero show/movie done well because most of the time it isn’t (some episodes of Black Lightning), though the Black Lightning show is still quite enjoyable (the family aspect and action).

    PS: Woke doesn’t sell, in fact it does the opposite. What does sell though, is good writing mixed with relatable characters you want to cheer on, regardless of race/gender/sexual orientation.

  4. #94
    Astonishing Member stargazer01's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    California
    Posts
    2,587

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyberstrike View Post
    Except when Smallville and Metropolis looked like they have been hit by a nuclear bomb and Superman punching Zod and the other Kryptonians threw buildings and stores killing mllions of people. Sorry but IMHO Man of Steel is an awful movie and nothing you or any one else is going to say is going to change that.
    In your humble opinion? Really? I don't think you mean that. It's ok if you think Man of Steel is an awful movie, but that's just your opinion not fact. To some of us MOS is a great movie. Not perfect, but still very good despite our issues (yes I have some).

  5. #95
    Astonishing Member stargazer01's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    California
    Posts
    2,587

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Timber Wolf-By-Night View Post
    Amen. I'd kiss this meme if I could.

    All this petty bitching about Batman or Superman being "disgraced," "shit on," "leeched from," doesn't even amount to "my favorite is not being treated well" or "the primary character around whom the family this particular secondary character spun off from isn't being worshiped reverently enough." It's "This lesser character is being allowed to step out of bounds from the strictly enforced lower caste I alone view them as being in AND THAT IS A CRIME AGAINST MY BELIEFS AND MUST BE PUNISHED."
    If those derivative characters are so great and deserving of reverence, then why do they have to steal almost everything from the original characters like Superman and Batman, though?? They should stand on their very own mythology (if they have any that is worth). Instead they use everything, even titles (Earth's Protector), places like the Fortress, villains and more instead of using their own. Maybe the writers just sucks and don't have the imagination or don't do their homework. Whatever it is, it's annoying how they sometimes steal what's not theirs.

  6. #96
    Incredible Member Ra-El's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Posts
    962

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Yeah, that's not even remotely true about Jefferson.



    Caring about your family doesn't mean you don't care about anyone else.
    Lets take season 2 for example, Anissa had the vigilante thing going on and everything with Grace, Jennifer was learning about her powers and had the Khalil stuff and Lynn was working on the methas in the pods and ASA. Those were the main storylines in season 2, Black Lightning contact with those things happened because his family were connected to it first. Look at the Perdis and Sange story, Anyssa found them and asked for Jefferson help, he went fought a few henchmen. Even his final confrontation with Tobias only happened because Jennifer went after him.
    Yes Jefferson care about other people beyond his family, but he doesn't drive the plot, he doesn't go and have adventures, he just kind of reacts to whatever his daughters get caught up with. I get that making action scenes with Thunder must be way more cheap than making it with Black Lightning, but I just want to see Jefferson doing something that will drive the plot. And what I wish for the Superman show too, for him to have his own storylines, independent from his family.
    Last edited by Ra-El; 05-24-2020 at 07:29 PM.

  7. #97
    Incredible Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2020
    Posts
    563

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Samm View Post
    I don’t a problem with them addressing those issues, I have a problem with how they do it. Batwoman and Black Lightning are great characters and yes their race/sexual orientation are a big part of their experience but at the end of the day, they’re so much more than that! The CW has a very bad track record with addressing those issues anyway and it all comes down to the writing! Want a good depiction of an LGBT character, watch Umbrella Academy (Klaus) or Doom Patrol (Negative Man), now those characters are well written people you want to cheer on! I don’t have an example of racial politics in a superhero show/movie done well because most of the time it isn’t (some episodes of Black Lightning), though the Black Lightning show is still quite enjoyable (the family aspect and action).

    PS: Woke doesn’t sell, in fact it does the opposite. What does sell though, is good writing mixed with relatable characters you want to cheer on, regardless of race/gender/sexual orientation.
    You do realize that Klaus and Negative are only a part of a tram and aren’t the stars anyway like Batwoman and Black Lightning are. So of course the show which is based around Batwoman and Black Lightning are going to deal with those issues for them.

  8. #98
    Astonishing Member manwhohaseverything's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Posts
    4,076

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jokerz79 View Post
    That was a newly built area of town only spectators and reporters not a full city like MOS and the whole point of that episode was the League even Superman was starting to lose some perspective and going too far.

    In both fights in MOS Superman fought inside city/town limits even taking the fight from his family farm to the center of Smallville. DCEU Supes needs anger management classes or get off Earth. As for saving Earth he only saved Earth due to an event happening because his dad sent him and the codex to Earth.
    Sure, he will get out of earth.I mean, He can fly of into space. He can go to literally anywhere. Earth can become krypton, this time with a superpowered raice of humanoid robot(since, kryptonian were engineered. Not born) . No problem, then humanity can become building block for a new krypton. You need to read one punch man chapter 21 or one punch man anime. It perfectly mocks the opposite side.It's a parody for a reason.


    A man saves the entire world, when he didn't have to. I mean no god comes to be your champion when you need him to. This guy does. Instead of gratefulness he is treated with hostilities. Well, it happens. Superman was always meant to be polarising. Moreover, no amount of anger management is gonna remove an emotion from you. As said, kal learns to live with them. He always did. He is human and alien. He is a strongman vigilante from space. Why should he leave? Its his world too. Everyone has gotten pissed and broken stuff. Here, he didn't try to break anything. He took zod through a plant and a petrol pump. That was the end of his anger. He tried to remove his helmet to overwhelm him. Rest was all zod. No, he can't take the guy to an unhabited area. He tried couple of times, he failed as zod came right back.He wants humans extinct. He is literal super-hitler that overpowers superman by a large margin. If you want to blame superman for zod. Go ahead. The real champion wouldn't give two hoot. Superman became superman because he did the right thing. He didn't become superman because he did the appropriate thing, that too always.


    This is his reply,

    It's not that he doesn't care. People were being jerks. So, he bullied his bully right back. Superman has no problem being a bully to a bully.

    I don't care. The point was superman is human and god at the same time. He is gonna leave a mark. Comics has a stupid dogma about slippery slopes and losing connection with humanity.. Etc. As if getting pissed or feeling hubris is inhuman. You know what? That was superman more than the goody two shoes guy who doesn't have human emotions. Before that, superman didn't do much in the entire cartoon other than look pretty and job. Then there was the stupidity of superman doing it for applauds. There are tons of other examples where superman gets pissed. People want him to not hurt a fly. That isn't gonna happen. He is a literal sentient gun. He is dangerous by merely existing. The worst part is he doesn't even choose it. He chooses to be superman, doesn't mean he paused reality. He continually makes that choice everytime. People need to drop their naive notions of what a superman is. He asks people to get to safety. He saves miltary guys and a couple or bystanders as i believe.

    On a side note, siegel and shuster's original superman was bald man who was a bad guy. Ofcourse, this guy isn't a bad at all. He is percieved as one. I guess, this is just a giant coincidence. Humanity has thoughts patterns that reoccur, wierd.

    #OnePunchMan4ever
    Last edited by manwhohaseverything; 05-25-2020 at 12:39 AM.

  9. #99
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    22,619

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ra-El View Post
    Lets take season 2 for example, Anissa had the vigilante thing going on and everything with Grace, Jennifer was learning about her powers and had the Khalil stuff and Lynn was working on the methas in the pods and ASA. Those were the main storylines in season 2, Black Lightning contact with those things happened because his family were connected to it first. Look at the Perdis and Sange story, Anyssa found them and asked for Jefferson help, he went fought a few henchmen. Even his final confrontation with Tobias only happened because Jennifer went after him.
    Yes Jefferson care about other people beyond his family, but he doesn't drive the plot, he doesn't go and have adventures, he just kind of reacts to whatever his daughters get caught up with. I get that making action scenes with Thunder must be way more cheap than making it with Black Lightning, but I just want to see Jefferson doing something that will drive the plot. And what I wish for the Superman show too, for him to have his own storylines, independent from his family.
    You've got it backwards. Anissa, Jennifer and Lynn are all connected to this through Jeff. He is the one who started the superhero business in the family, Anissa and Jen have powers because of him.

    Furthermore, this "characters should drive the plot" is a strange argument to begin with. More often than not, the story is driven by events not the characters. Jefferson reacting to plots is not a mark against him as a protagonist.

  10. #100
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    22,619

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyberstrike View Post
    What is your point? Superman is not perfect? Oh I'm sorry but I've read all of Alan Moore's Superman stories and several "darker" Superman stories (other than Moore none of them are worth remembering) and yes I've seen all of Superman: The Animated Series, Justice League, and Justice League Unlimited. So Superman has a dark side so what? It's how he overcomes the dark and inspires others to be better than they know.

    Have you read this short dialogue from Dr. Manhattan (in this series he's suppose to be the ultimate cynical superhero) from Doomsday Clock #12:
    "The Rocket Arrives.
    A Child is Loved.
    Superman is made.
    I now understand Superman's true purpose.
    He will show them the way.
    And in a millennium when his timeline converges with the Legion's...humankind will finally embraces the way of Superman.
    He is the bridge stretching across generations that will lead everyone to peace."

    To me that is what Superman is supposed to be a beacon of light and hope in a dark world.

    Now maybe to you he's a scary person no better than the worst of and that is fine for you, but for me the Supergirl TV show and the New 52 Batwoman comic are what brought be back to DCU after years of grimdark edge lord pandering BS that sucked the life of the comics and made the movies unbearable for a mass audience. In my OPINION the Arrowverse TV shows did what the movies failed to do and make live action versions of these characters appeal to a mass audience, not just to the 40+ year old cis-genered straight white men who had been reading comics their whole lives you know people like me. If comics are to have a future then they and the characters need to evolve beyond appealing just to people like me, and if you want kids (aka the future) to read them then you have to make their appearances in mass media have to appeal to them.
    a) I'm Nigerian so if the DCEU appealed to me, it clearly was doing something right by your standards.

    b) you are greatly underestimating the CW's "mass appeal". The only reason these shows have lasted as long as they have is because of that network's low standards for writing and ratings. Hell, that's what happened to Supergirl before it ended up on the CW.

    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    The other poster didn't say anything about him laughing. Superman does save people and Zod does most of the damage, but the most he does is express mild concern through his face. Which frankly may not be enough for some people. He didn't even express that much when he plowed Zod through the gas station in Smallville. The rest of the fight wasn't his fault, but that was a blunder on his part.

    Some of the demonization is hyperbole. But saying detractors have ridiculous standards is hyperbole as well. I think a movie that depicts a "Superman saving people montage" with seriously foreboding music playing over it garners a bit of a "WTF" reaction. And not just from supposed diehards either. And how we react to the content and judge the films overall is tied into how the executions of these scenes make us feel. We can "get it" and still think it sucks.
    Well this is certainly more reasonable than the majority of criticisms I've seen.
    Last edited by Agent Z; 05-25-2020 at 04:39 AM.

  11. #101
    Astonishing Member manwhohaseverything's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Posts
    4,076

    Default

    Well, i missed that part about cis-genderd-straight-white-males.I didn't much see anything particularly appealing in the movies to just that particular demographics. Why exactly was that mentioned? Anyways, i am pretty sure i am not white myself.

  12. #102

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    a) I'm Nigerian so if the DCEU appealed to me, it clearly was doing something right by your standards.

    b) you are greatly underestimating the CW's "mass appeal". The only reason these shows have lasted as long as they have is because of that network's low standards for writing and ratings. Hell, that's what happened to Supergirl before it ended up on the CW.
    a) I'm disabled with a nerve disorder. I will say that the DCEU has gotten better with Wonder Woman, Aquaman, Shazam!, and Birds of Prey. All good but not exactly great either.

    b) Matter of taste in terms of writing. I think Alan Moore is better than Grant Morrison others disagree, and fine. I simply know what I like and what I don't. As I've gotten older I prefer character over spectacle and TV shows that at least try to say something then shows that think they're saying something and have nothing to say. Man of Steel, Batman v. Superman: Dawn of Justice, Justice League, and Suicide Squad 1 didn't appeal to me and don't offer anything other sound and fury signifying nothing. I will take Superman Returns over Man of Steel any day of the week. I'm also sick and tied of DCEU/Snyder/Ayers fans shoving these movies down my throat as these "misunderstood works of art" when the mass audience clearly didn't like them and that is why the Arrowverse succeeds and I can tell you more people have watched and fell in love with characters first through these shows and/or movies than the comics (and that also goes with Marvel too). That is the mass appeal that I'm talking about getting more people to give love these characters and not which channel the shows are and what the ratings are for them.
    Last edited by Cyberstrike; 05-25-2020 at 10:00 AM.

  13. #103
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    22,619

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyberstrike View Post
    a) I'm disabled with a nerve disorder. I will say that the DCEU has gotten better with Wonder Woman, Aquaman, Shazam!, and Birds of Prey. All good but not exactly great either.

    b) Matter of taste in terms of writing. I think Alan Moore is better than Grant Morrison others disagree, and fine. I simply know what I like and what I don't. As I've gotten older I prefer character over spectacle and TV shows that at least try to say something then shows that think they're saying something and have nothing to say. Man of Steel, Batman v. Superman: Dawn of Justice, Justice League, and Suicide Squad 1 didn't appeal to me and don't offer anything other sound and fury signifying nothing. I will take Superman Returns over Man of Steel any day of the week. I'm also sick and tied of DCEU/Snyder/Ayers fans shoving these movies down my throat as these "misunderstood works of art" when the mass audience clearly didn't like them and that is why the Arrowverse succeeds and I can tell you more people have watched and fell in love with characters first through these shows and/or movies than the comics (and that also goes with Marvel too). That is the mass appeal that I'm talking about getting more people to give love these characters and not which channel the shows are and what the ratings are for them.
    a) okay then. wasn't the demographic you were talking about but whatever.

    b) you do know you're the one who brought the DCEU up in the first place, right?

  14. #104
    Incredible Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2020
    Posts
    563

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyberstrike View Post
    a) I'm disabled with a nerve disorder. I will say that the DCEU has gotten better with Wonder Woman, Aquaman, Shazam!, and Birds of Prey. All good but not exactly great either.

    b) Matter of taste in terms of writing. I think Alan Moore is better than Grant Morrison others disagree, and fine. I simply know what I like and what I don't. As I've gotten older I prefer character over spectacle and TV shows that at least try to say something then shows that think they're saying something and have nothing to say. Man of Steel, Batman v. Superman: Dawn of Justice, Justice League, and Suicide Squad 1 didn't appeal to me and don't offer anything other sound and fury signifying nothing. I will take Superman Returns over Man of Steel any day of the week. I'm also sick and tied of DCEU/Snyder/Ayers fans shoving these movies down my throat as these "misunderstood works of art" when the mass audience clearly didn't like them and that is why the Arrowverse succeeds and I can tell you more people have watched and fell in love with characters first through these shows and/or movies than the comics (and that also goes with Marvel too). That is the mass appeal that I'm talking about getting more people to give love these characters and not which channel the shows are and what the ratings are for them.
    While I personally agree with, this may be a generalization.

    That type of characterization focus is what get the general audiences behind them. The fact that it works for MCU and Arrowverse, and you could say the current AM, WW and Shazam and this current zeitgeist of superhero films in general. You would think Batman and Superman would be leaders in this.

    However, I think the problem with both Superman and Batman is they’ve had so many interpretations and all of them famously known over the last 80 years, you get creators who want to do the auteur takes on them now. Or post-modern takes.

    Sometimes it works. See the Nolan trilogy or Joker. Sometimes it doesn’t: everything else.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •