The Infinity Inc. Problem

[K. Jones]

Infinity Inc. isn't the problem.

World War 2 being a thing in the mainline continuity is the problem.

[Lee Stone]

Earth-Two.

JSInfinity.

But do away with the idea that only legacy characters can be members.
If they're the only hero team on the whole Earth, where are all the other heroes supposed to go?

[DrNewGod]

Someone posted an excellent solution in this forum a few months ago.

My idea was that they would still be from Earth 2 where time moves more slowly, but eventually, that wouldn't work. The proposed solution was that the JSA was trapped in stasis for an undetermined period of time. The length of time would simply be increased each year. This is similar to how Captain America can be linked to WW2, but is now eternally in his 30s. The period of time he was suspended in an iceburg is fluid. This was also how DC brought back the Marvel Family in the 70s -- even though they were around in the Golden Age and hadn't been seen since.

So, it could be written that after being freed from stasis -- most of the JSA went into semi-retirement and started having kids. So the only time that would be relevant is when they were released from stasis -- and that would always be about 20 years ago. So they could be trapped in stasis 50 years or more. While that seems a long period of time, keep in mind that Mon-El was trapped in the Phantom Zone for 1,000 years.

Yeah, I didn't love that idea at first, especially because it is so much Captain America's thing. That said, as time goes by, I don't see a better way.

[achilles]

Infinity Inc. isn't the problem.

World War 2 being a thing in the mainline continuity is the problem.

No it isn't. Not with sundry methods the OG JSA have used to not age that much. Which means they could have had kids at any time, including 20 years ago. Really this stuff isn't hard. Have your JSA title for the big guns of the traditional JSA, and shuffle the others off to Infinity Inc. Have them related titles that occasionally cross over to varying degrees, but are their own separate entities. If nothing else, it would give Infinity fans their line-up plus have a place to put the lesser Johns era characters, those that are even worth bothering with.

[Flash Gordon]

No it isn't. Not with sundry methods the OG JSA have used to not age that much. Which means they could have had kids at any time, including 20 years ago. Really this stuff isn't hard. Have your JSA title for the big guns of the traditional JSA, and shuffle the others off to Infinity Inc. Have them related titles that occasionally cross over to varying degrees, but are their own separate entities. If nothing else, it would give Infinity fans their line-up plus have a place to put the lesser Johns era characters, those that are even worth bothering with.

Having them all be essentially immortal doesn't work for me at all. If they're tied to the 1940s, they all should be dead in modern times cept for maybe Jay Garrick and his speed force.

[DrNewGod]

Having them all be essentially immortal doesn't work for me at all. If they're tied to the 1940s, they all should be dead in modern times cept for maybe Jay Garrick and his speed force.

That is what is wrong with comics fandom. "Write the story I wanted to read." Moore's Swamp Thing is not what anybody asked for.

[CaptCleghorn]

Having them all be essentially immortal doesn't work for me at all. If they're tied to the 1940s, they all should be dead in modern times cept for maybe Jay Garrick and his speed force.

Fate, Spectre, and Green Lantern all have reasonable explanations for long lives. Hawkman and Wildcat have the reincarnation thing going on. I may have miised someone, but the other JSAers are pretty much guys in costumes with scientific help (GL is magic). Now I'd love to see guys like an old Wes Dodds (and Dian?) using decades of detective skills and Ted Knight playing a role like he did in Robinson's Starman series. But without a time jump, most of these folks are going to be dead. DC tried to age them into the grave in Zero Hour, but that proved to be unpopular. And since Zero Hour was 25 years ago, the age problem has not only gotten worse, but beyond the point of non-comic booky scientific/magical tweaking.

This has been a problem ever since the Ian Karkull plot was derived to "fix" the aging problem. This isn't a math problem where one calculates the best way to plot the return. It's a mix of how much will people like or dislike this and will it sell books. I have what I'd like to see. Would that work? Going by the variety of opinions seen in these threads, who knows. Opinions certainly differ.

The good news is the problem is as bad as it's going to get. The JSA characters are too old to do anything at their age and would pretty much all be dead if it wasn't for the various methods to keep them alive. Depending on whether the characters have magic or some device helping them, that will work 20, 30, or 100 years down the line. If the characters has died by 2020, they'll still be dead in the future as well.

[Lee Stone]

Something else to think about...


When the JSA was killed off in 1994 because it was 'too old', it was around 50 years old...
The JSA first appeared in 1940.

The JLA first appeared in 1960.
And is currently 60 years old.
Six years older than the JSA was when it was 'too old'.

[Flash Gordon]

That is what is wrong with comics fandom. "Write the story I wanted to read." Moore's Swamp Thing is not what anybody asked for.

As opposed to what, just consume whatever is given to you and say "thank you sir"? Blah.

Nothing wrong with sharing ideas. That's what this thread is about, us thinking creatively.

[Flash Gordon]

Fate, Spectre, and Green Lantern all have reasonable explanations for long lives. Hawkman and Wildcat have the reincarnation thing going on. I may have miised someone, but the other JSAers are pretty much guys in costumes with scientific help (GL is magic). Now I'd love to see guys like an old Wes Dodds (and Dian?) using decades of detective skills and Ted Knight playing a role like he did in Robinson's Starman series. But without a time jump, most of these folks are going to be dead. DC tried to age them into the grave in Zero Hour, but that proved to be unpopular. And since Zero Hour was 25 years ago, the age problem has not only gotten worse, but beyond the point of non-comic booky scientific/magical tweaking.

This has been a problem ever since the Ian Karkull plot was derived to "fix" the aging problem. This isn't a math problem where one calculates the best way to plot the return. It's a mix of how much will people like or dislike this and will it sell books. I have what I'd like to see. Would that work? Going by the variety of opinions seen in these threads, who knows. Opinions certainly differ.

The good news is the problem is as bad as it's going to get. The JSA characters are too old to do anything at their age and would pretty much all be dead if it wasn't for the various methods to keep them alive. Depending on whether the characters have magic or some device helping them, that will work 20, 30, or 100 years down the line. If the characters has died by 2020, they'll still be dead in the future as well.

Good points.
Something I loved about James Robinson's STARMAN, and I loved so many things about it- was the bittersweet feeling whenever we'd get a Times Past story.

I think I'd keep Fate, Sentinel, Wildcat, Jay, Hawkman, and a few others around- you're right they have a total reason to exist still.

[Will Evans]

Good points.
Something I loved about James Robinson's STARMAN, and I loved so many things about it- was the bittersweet feeling whenever we'd get a Times Past story.

I think I'd keep Fate, Sentinel, Wildcat, Jay, Hawkman, and a few others around- you're right they have a total reason to exist still.

But about their supporting cast and kids: Inza, Tom Bronson, Jade, Obsidian, Molly, Joan, Hector, etc


Isn’t Zatanna’s current backstory that Zatara wasn’t born in the 1920s, but recent enough to father Zatanna and die a middle age man?

[DrNewGod]

As opposed to what, just consume whatever is given to you and say "thank you sir"? Blah.

Nothing wrong with sharing ideas. That's what this thread is about, us thinking creatively.

Bull****. What you said distills to "I want you to write comics that say what I want to hear."

[Flash Gordon]

Bull****. What you said distills to "I want you to write comics that say what I want to hear."

Whatever man.

[achilles]

Having them all be essentially immortal doesn't work for me at all. If they're tied to the 1940s, they all should be dead in modern times cept for maybe Jay Garrick and his speed force.

So...you don't have a problem with a guy who has a magic ring, a guy who can run superfast, a wizard, basically, or Wildcat's costume, but the immortality thing is a bridge too far? Not so for me.

[Flash Gordon]

But about their supporting cast and kids: Inza, Tom Bronson, Jade, Obsidian, Molly, Joan, Hector, etc


Isn’t Zatanna’s current backstory that Zatara wasn’t born in the 1920s, but recent enough to father Zatanna and die a middle age man?

I think so, yeah. I didnt read Mystik U but from what I've read of JLD, I think you're right.