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  1. #61
    Ultimate Member Lee Stone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Will Evans View Post
    Which character do you keep?

    Either Peter Cross or Beth Chapel?

    Al Rothstein or Grant Emerson?

    Tom Bronson or Yolanda Montez?

    Rick Tyler or the Android?

    Hector Hall or Northwind?
    Hector Hall and Northwind existed together, so they still could.
    Hector Hall moved into more of this position:

    Hector Hall or Kent Nelson or whatshisname
    "There's magic in the sound of analog audio." - CNET.

  2. #62
    insulin4all CaptCleghorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Bifrost View Post
    Of course, there is one more way to handle the JSA/II problem, which DC has sort of used before. The JSA starts in WW II, many survive, their kids get started as Infinity, Inc. around 1970.

    Then, around 1972, before Superman and Batman come on the scene (I'm assuming Wonder Woman was in the JSA), there is a Crisis. A Very Powerful Entity gathers together a bunch of superheroes (including most of the JSA and II), some of their spouses, and a whole lot of their most important villains - for reasons that are Very Important To The Plot -and puts them to work, or to the test, or whatever.

    At some point in the conflict, the vast majority of these characters wind up trapped in timeless void (or a magical amulet, or an enchanted bottle, or whatever) where they are essentially in suspended animation. But not all the characters - Wonder Woman gets left behind, and maybe a few others. (It would be interesting, for example, if the GA Wildcat and his son are left behind; in the current day he's died, but his grandson is active as a superhero. Or maybe the Martian Manhunter came to Earth in the 1950's, long before Superman and Batman became superheroes, and continues to this day. Choose carefully.)

    And no one is able to find the lost heroes, or even demonstrate that they have not been utterly destroyed. (But the world still remembers them. None of this "everybody forgot they ever existed/now suddenly everybody remembers!", which is one of my least favorite comic book tropes ever, for a number of reasons that I won't go into here).

    At some point in the current era, probably after Superman and Batman have started up and the JLA has been founded, they are found! And/or released. And/or returned. It'll be a Really Big Story. And then they can continue their lives - with the JSA heroes a good deal older than the JLA heroes, and Infinity, Inc. in full swing.

    It's hard to do this in a way that doesn't come across as conspicuously (rather than just ordinarily) contrived. And in may opinion you wind up with far too many characters with the "fish our of water" time-jump aspect, which can get a little redundant. But it can work.

    Marvel did something like this, with a bunch of previous-era heroes trapped in an urn. But I wasn't reading them at the time, and - despite my Google Search talents (he said modestly) - I haven't been able to find it. Can someone enlighten me? Was it in mainstream Marvel continuity, and are the characters still running around today?
    This is what makes these threads worth it. The ideas that arise and the way seeing someone else's thoughts in words on a screen often change our own if only a bit.

    As for Marvel's series, is this what you're looking for?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marvel...ost_Generation

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee Stone View Post
    Hector Hall and Northwind existed together, so they still could.
    Hector Hall moved into more of this position:

    Hector Hall or Kent Nelson or whatshisname
    Right. Hector went on to become Sandman then Dr Fate. But those positions are already filled.

    Silver Scarab is kind of a lame duck at this point.

  4. #64
    insulin4all CaptCleghorn's Avatar
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    Would the fate of Hector and Lyta's son Daniel be brought up at all, or forgotten? Seeing as a character that's become the new Sandman is a continuity point that could be a mess.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptCleghorn View Post
    Would the fate of Hector and Lyta's son Daniel be brought up at all, or forgotten? Seeing as a character that's become the new Sandman is a continuity point that could be a mess.
    It’s weird for me.

    For me, Daniel becoming Dream should never be reversed and should stay in continuity.

    But I felt the same way about Ted Knight dying and Jim Corrigan dying and passing on their roles. But DC has already revered those.
    Last edited by Will Evans; 05-23-2020 at 02:02 PM.

  6. #66

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    Quote Originally Posted by Will Evans View Post
    Right. Hector went on to become Sandman then Dr Fate. But those positions are already filled.

    Silver Scarab is kind of a lame duck at this point.
    I don't know, Nth metal armor sounds kind of cool. If the other two identities can't be used then that at least gives him a unique niche.

  7. #67
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    Personally, I'd build on the good work they did on the JSA/Justice Society of America titles in the 90s & 00s

    Starting with the "JSA additions":

    Starman (Jack Knight) - now the grandson of Ted Knight (?)
    Sand (Sandy Hawkins) - Captain America-esque "man out of time", link to the JSA's past.
    Black Canary (Dinah Lance) - experienced mentor hero, replaces Wildcat (Ted Grant).
    Atom Smasher (Al Rothstein) - experienced "heavy hitter", offers stability and technical expertise.
    Doctor Fate (as required) - rotating door of post-holders, would probably go with one of the more "representation friendly" versions.
    Hawkgirl (as required) - reincarnation means that she's one of the few with a baked in "reset button".
    Stargirl (Courtney Whitmore) - pretty much good as is, likely positioned as "up-and-coming" leader.
    Mister Terrific (Michael Holt) - as a idealogical/thematic rather than biological heir to Mr Terrific, his origin plot is inherently free-floating.
    Doctor Mid-Nite (Pieter Cross) - one minor "Easter Egg" in his backstory is increasingly questionable, but I think the character is still usable.
    JJ Thunder (Jakeem Thunder) - like Terrific not biologically related to his predecessor, so no issues there.
    Captain Marvel/Black Adam - potentially usable as is or a successor.

    Then add characters from or based on Justice Society of America v3 era.

    "Epiphany" - OC child of Jade and Brainwave, mental and light-based powers.
    "Deadline" - OC child of Rick Tyler and Beth Chapel
    "Dreamer" - David Hall, child of Hector Hall and Lyta Trevor, could also be a Flying Brick.
    Damage (Grant Emerson) - potential successor to Atom Smasher and/or Captain Marvel.
    Cyclone (Maxine Hunkel) - usable as is.
    Tomcat (Tom Bronson) - would benefit from some character development, but is otherwise usable as is.
    Citizen Steel (Nate Heywood) - would benefit from some character development (possibly borrowing from the LoT version), but is otherwise usable as is.
    Amazing Man (Markus Clay) - reservist, possibly most a science buddy of Terrific's?
    Lightning (Jennifer Pierce) - reservist/rookie.

    Most of the rest of the additions from that era are filler and probably not worth including.

  8. #68

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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptCleghorn View Post
    This is what makes these threads worth it. The ideas that arise and the way seeing someone else's thoughts in words on a screen often change our own if only a bit.

    As for Marvel's series, is this what you're looking for?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marvel...ost_Generation
    Thank you for the kind words.

    But no, that's not the Marvel series I was looking for. It was about a bunch of superheroes who were literally trapped in a magic urn, then released in the current day. Anybody? Bueller?
    Doctor Bifrost

    "If Roy G. Bivolo had seen some B&W pencil sketches, his whole life would have turned out differently." http://doctorbifrost.blogspot.com/

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Bifrost View Post
    Thank you for the kind words.

    But no, that's not the Marvel series I was looking for. It was about a bunch of superheroes who were literally trapped in a magic urn, then released in the current day. Anybody? Bueller?
    The Twelve https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Twelve_(comics)

  10. #70
    Savior of the Universe Flash Gordon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptCleghorn View Post
    This is what makes these threads worth it. The ideas that arise and the way seeing someone else's thoughts in words on a screen often change our own if only a bit.

    As for Marvel's series, is this what you're looking for?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marvel...ost_Generation
    For sure, I love these kinds of threads and seeing everyone share ideas and thoughts on characters we enjoy.

  11. #71
    Savior of the Universe Flash Gordon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Will Evans View Post
    It’s weird for me.

    For me, Daniel becoming Dream should never be reversed and should stay in continuity.

    But I felt the same way about Ted Knight dying and Jim Corrigan dying and passing on their roles. But DC has already revered those.
    Did Ted Knight return?

    His death, and STARMAN as a whole, are simply perfect comics- should never be tampered with.

  12. #72
    Extraordinary Member Factor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shamrock Holmes View Post
    Personally, I'd build on the good work they did on the JSA/Justice Society of America titles in the 90s & 00s

    Starting with the "JSA additions":

    Starman (Jack Knight) - now the grandson of Ted Knight (?)
    Sand (Sandy Hawkins) - Captain America-esque "man out of time", link to the JSA's past.
    Black Canary (Dinah Lance) - experienced mentor hero, replaces Wildcat (Ted Grant).
    Atom Smasher (Al Rothstein) - experienced "heavy hitter", offers stability and technical expertise.
    Doctor Fate (as required) - rotating door of post-holders, would probably go with one of the more "representation friendly" versions.
    Hawkgirl (as required) - reincarnation means that she's one of the few with a baked in "reset button".
    Stargirl (Courtney Whitmore) - pretty much good as is, likely positioned as "up-and-coming" leader.
    Mister Terrific (Michael Holt) - as a idealogical/thematic rather than biological heir to Mr Terrific, his origin plot is inherently free-floating.
    Doctor Mid-Nite (Pieter Cross) - one minor "Easter Egg" in his backstory is increasingly questionable, but I think the character is still usable.
    JJ Thunder (Jakeem Thunder) - like Terrific not biologically related to his predecessor, so no issues there.
    Captain Marvel/Black Adam - potentially usable as is or a successor.

    Then add characters from or based on Justice Society of America v3 era.

    "Epiphany" - OC child of Jade and Brainwave, mental and light-based powers.
    "Deadline" - OC child of Rick Tyler and Beth Chapel
    "Dreamer" - David Hall, child of Hector Hall and Lyta Trevor, could also be a Flying Brick.
    Damage (Grant Emerson) - potential successor to Atom Smasher and/or Captain Marvel.
    Cyclone (Maxine Hunkel) - usable as is.
    Tomcat (Tom Bronson) - would benefit from some character development, but is otherwise usable as is.
    Citizen Steel (Nate Heywood) - would benefit from some character development (possibly borrowing from the LoT version), but is otherwise usable as is.
    Amazing Man (Markus Clay) - reservist, possibly most a science buddy of Terrific's?
    Lightning (Jennifer Pierce) - reservist/rookie.

    Most of the rest of the additions from that era are filler and probably not worth including.
    I like your ideas, but how would you explain Black Canary in this scenario?
    Wildcat actually has a better explanation for still being around (the 9 lives thing).

  13. #73
    insulin4all CaptCleghorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flash Gordon View Post
    Did Ted Knight return?

    His death, and STARMAN as a whole, are simply perfect comics- should never be tampered with.
    I thought Ted Knight was off the board with the rest of the JSA after Flashpoint and he hadn't been seen. Of course, I could be wrong.

    As to his death, it was a brilliant story and series, but Ted's death is tied into Jack's series and if there is no Jack in this new setup, it seems a waste to keep him dead.

  14. #74
    Extraordinary Member Factor's Avatar
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    I had another idea that I think is simpler than the original.
    After the JSA disbanded in the 50s, Per Degaton would travel decades into the future to orchestrate a third world war (this would be based on the first JLA/JSA/All-Star Squadron team-up).
    The JSA and some All-Star allies (like Liberty Belle and Johnny Quick) would reunite for one last time to travel to the future and stop Degaton.
    After defeating him, the team would be stranded in this future (which would be 30 years in our past), unable to return to the 50s for fear of disrupting the timestream.
    Realizing this new world still had no heroes, the JSA would retire to live somewhat normal lives after meeting most of their future wives and husbands in this era.
    The debut of Superman decades later would inspire them to come out of retirement for good, marking a new age of super-heroes.

    There you go. The biggest adjustement needed would be to have the team meet their loved ones only after the time jump, but I really don't see it as a big deal.

  15. #75

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    Quote Originally Posted by Will Evans View Post
    You know, I believe that was the Marvel story I was thinking of. Thank you. But I still think there was a different story - possibly by a different publisher - about a bunch of superheroes trapped for decades in a magical urn. Of course, it's always possible that I dreamed it...
    Doctor Bifrost

    "If Roy G. Bivolo had seen some B&W pencil sketches, his whole life would have turned out differently." http://doctorbifrost.blogspot.com/

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