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  1. #1726
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    They tell cohesive stories regularly in the DCEU, Snyder and Ayer's Suicide Squad are exceptions.
    I think some of it is down to WB wanting Batman confronting Superman, the death of Superman, and introducing Wonder Woman to rush into JL all in one movie. At least I remember fandom discussions indicating that these were all beats he had to hit from on high, he had to make a 3 hour movie to fit it all in, and then they forced him to cut it down for theaters.

    Though with the unveiling of the original 5 film plan, maybe it was all his idea.

  2. #1727

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirby101 View Post
    For me the major problem with BvS was Eisenberg's Luthor. It almost ruined the movie for me. So I guess they didn't recast him.
    I was ok with Eisenberg as Luthor because I think I understood what he was going for.

    I think the telling scene was when he was talking to Holly Hunter in his library where he shows her the painting that's upside down where he says something like "sometimes the devil comes from the sky."

    At first, I thought he was making some snide remark about Superman, but upon later reflection, I thought he was likely talking about Darkseid.

    So, that's when his characterization made sense to me. He had met a literal god -- Darkseid -- and it totally unhinged him and made him lose his sense of what's real -- and more importantly, showed him just how powerless and not-in-control he was in the grand scheme of things -- something that Lex Luthor would have a hard time processing.

    That's why, I felt, during the party scene when he was giving his speech, he kind of lost his train of thought and started rambling -- meeting Darkseid (and likely becoming his puppet) made him a little loopy. We are not seeing classic Lex. We are seeing a Lex who had his whole world turned upside down after meeting a dark god. I'd guess Snyder was planting seeds in BvS that would pay off (or become clearer) in later movies.

    Perhaps Snydercut-JL will show us exactly that.

    If not, then, yeah, Eisenberg was off the mark.

  3. #1728
    Ultimate Member Kirby101's Avatar
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    Not so much the way he was used in the story, it was his acting and characterization. We have a pre conceived idea of Luther from the comics, animated show, etc.. so when they go against type and it becomes so gratings off putting, that is a real problem.
    There came a time when the Old Gods died! The Brave died with the Cunning! The Noble perished locked in battle with unleashed Evil! It was the last day for them! An ancient era was passing in fiery holocaust!

  4. #1729

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirby101 View Post
    Not so much the way he was used in the story, it was his acting and characterization. We have a pre conceived idea of Luther from the comics, animated show, etc.. so when they go against type and it becomes so gratings off putting, that is a real problem.
    Well, as I said, if there is an in-story rationale for it, then I'm ok with the acting/characterization going against type or expectations. Again, the party scene was scripted, so it wasn't just an actor being self-indulgent there. There had to be a reason for him losing his train of thought -- something Luthor does not do ordinarily.

    I hope that ZSJL makes the Luthor story clearer. It'll be interesting to see how much Eisenberg was in Snyder's version considering he was completely out of Whedon's except for the after credits scene.

  5. #1730
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    I think some of it is down to WB wanting Batman confronting Superman, the death of Superman, and introducing Wonder Woman to rush into JL all in one movie. At least I remember fandom discussions indicating that these were all beats he had to hit from on high, he had to make a 3 hour movie to fit it all in, and then they forced him to cut it down for theaters.

    Though with the unveiling of the original 5 film plan, maybe it was all his idea.
    They don't sound like things WB execs would do, most of them don't read comics. Where was the fandom getting their sources from? What fandom thinks doesn't mean much when a large amount come from what they want to see rather than following news outlets like Variety and getting rumours from bad websites like WeGotItCovered. That's why it's important to get information first hand rather than second and not all rumors are trustworthy many, many people grift online by telling their audience what they want to hear.

  6. #1731
    The Nature Boy AnakinFlair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    I don't know why but after B vs S Snyder lost his ability to tell a cohesive story in a standard time frame, now he can't do anything without bloating a movie to 3 hours. He needs editing badly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack The Tripper View Post
    I think it's because he has too much to choose from. 300 was a fine adaptation because he could literally just pull scenes from the pages. Dawn of the dead was similar. This is also what he did with Watchmen, however this was not a great adaptation due to the fact it isn't as "meat and potatoes" as 300. I havent seen sucker punch so i can't comment on it.

    BvS (and I'm gonna wager JL) suffers from him Not knowing what source material he wants to leave out seeing as he's adapting long running, serialized characters into an original story.
    See, I think Snyder lost his ability to tell a cohesive story in a standard time frame with Watchmen. He released a relatively short version in theaters, but after that he kept releasing longer cuts of that movie.

    Quote Originally Posted by Comic-Reader Lad View Post
    I was ok with Eisenberg as Luthor because I think I understood what he was going for.

    I think the telling scene was when he was talking to Holly Hunter in his library where he shows her the painting that's upside down where he says something like "sometimes the devil comes from the sky."

    At first, I thought he was making some snide remark about Superman, but upon later reflection, I thought he was likely talking about Darkseid.

    So, that's when his characterization made sense to me. He had met a literal god -- Darkseid -- and it totally unhinged him and made him lose his sense of what's real -- and more importantly, showed him just how powerless and not-in-control he was in the grand scheme of things -- something that Lex Luthor would have a hard time processing.

    That's why, I felt, during the party scene when he was giving his speech, he kind of lost his train of thought and started rambling -- meeting Darkseid (and likely becoming his puppet) made him a little loopy. We are not seeing classic Lex. We are seeing a Lex who had his whole world turned upside down after meeting a dark god. I'd guess Snyder was planting seeds in BvS that would pay off (or become clearer) in later movies.

    Perhaps Snydercut-JL will show us exactly that.

    If not, then, yeah, Eisenberg was off the mark.
    I had a slightly different take. I felt that Darkseid was controlling Lex to a degree, and how he was controlling him was making him unhinged. That was why he lost his train of thought at the party, that was why he was so manic all of the time.

    That being said, none of that was ever revealed in the movie, which is a problem.

  7. #1732
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  8. #1733
    Incredible Member Thomas Crown's Avatar
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    About ZACK SNYDER’S JUSTICE LEAGUE
    The ZACK SNYDER’S JUSTICE LEAGUE screenplay is by Chris Terrio, story by Chris Terrio & Zack Snyder and Will Beall, based on characters from DC, Superman created by Jerry Siegel and Joe Shuster. The film’s producers are Charles Roven, Deborah Snyder, with executive producers Christopher Nolan, Emma Thomas, Wesley Coller, Jim Rowe, Curtis Kanemoto, Chris Terrio and Ben Affleck.
    I'm SO glad to see Geoff Johns, Jon Berg and Joss Whedon's names removed.
    "Longtime fans will read the book and bitch about it NO MATTER WHAT."

    - Grant Morrison

  9. #1734

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    So is everyone just glossing over the fact that this premiers one day before Falcon and the Winter Soldier drops as if that wasn't blatantly intentional or anything?
    Last Read: History of the Marvel Universe

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  10. #1735
    Chad Jar Jar Pinsir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noodle View Post
    So is everyone just glossing over the fact that this premiers one day before Falcon and the Winter Soldier drops as if that wasn't blatantly intentional or anything?
    Why would anyone care? That tv show sounds dumb
    Want to read Wonder Woman stories, but don't know where to start? Check out my top 10 lists for Golden Age, Silver Age, Bronze Age and Modern Age Wonder Woman tales!

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  11. #1736
    Incredible Member Bunch of Coconuts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinsir View Post
    Why would anyone care? That tv show sounds dumb
    Perfectly acceptable counter-point: Zack Snyder cut sounds dumb!

    Back to square one...

  12. #1737

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinsir View Post
    Why would anyone care? That tv show sounds dumb
    "It's not an issue because I personally don't like it."

    Dropping two major comic book properties on the same weekend dilutes the hype, coverage and social engagement both get after release.
    Last Read: History of the Marvel Universe

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  13. #1738
    The Kid 80sbaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noodle View Post
    "It's not an issue because I personally don't like it."

    Dropping two major comic book properties on the same weekend dilutes the hype, coverage and social engagement both get after release.
    Well that would be true if they were both being released in theatres. However they're on streaming services and Falcon & Winter Soldier is going to be weekly episodes. So fans can, and likely will, watch both the premiere of that and the Snyder Cut. Neither should really affect each other.

  14. #1739

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    Quote Originally Posted by 80sbaby View Post
    Well that would be true if they were both being released in theatres. However they're on streaming services and Falcon & Winter Soldier is going to be weekly episodes. So fans can, and likely will, watch both the premiere of that and the Snyder Cut. Neither should really affect each other.
    I wasn't talking about profit, which is why most major studios don't open movies targeted to the same audience out on the same weekend. I was talking about promotion and media engagement. Take a site like CBR for example. Before that weekend (and most likely the week leading up to it) would be all hype for Falcon/Soldier. Now it will get less coverage as it has to compete with Snyder Cut coverage. Similar if Snyder Cut came out on it's own weekend. Nothing but coverage of it. But now it will get less coverage because it's sharing that spotlight with Falcon/Soldier.

    The same will go with social media interaction on things like Twitter. Engagement will be split since two similarly marketed products are dropping on the same date.

    Its bad marketing.
    Last Read: History of the Marvel Universe

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  15. #1740
    King of Wakanda Midvillian1322's Avatar
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    Kevin Smith has a good point. How many people outside Fandom are even gonna know what this is. Regular Joe is gonna see it in they're feed and say " I already saw that " having Zach Snyders name isn't gonna help. They need to market the shit out of it this and explain what it is to the geneal audience.. If they want more then the die hards to watch.

    Wanda Vision is weird and is generating a bunch of attention and buzz. Falcon and The Winter Solider will do better then fine.

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