Zack Snyder's JUSTICE LEAGUE on HBOmax in 2021!

[Username taken]

Snyder confirmed it on his social media: The Robin who died was ... Dick Grayson.

I'm even less happy about this new vision of the movie now.

Having Dick Grayson being the Robin that’s dead is a bit stupid.

I mean, Jason Todd was killed by the Joker in a very memorable storyline. Why have the existing Nightwing that’s very much alive be the one that’s killed?

Anyone, I guess it doesn’t matter now since the DCEU has gone in an entirely different direction now.

[Username taken]

But the entire movie is just people on TV just saying bad things about Superman. Clark's reaction to it is always just a sigh and looking off into the distance. He even says he doesn't care about it to Lois (even though he clearly is bothered by it). It always comes off as an annoyance by the way he reacts to it. The only time we see Superman doing good is when that montage with "The Superman Question" starts.

It doesn't make sense within the context of this film. I mean why doesn't Superman ever go talk to the guy that had his legs amputated? I know a plot usually moves forward because of the choices a character makes, but Superman doesn't make any choices. He just continues to let people say things about him that aren't true, and goes around investigating Batman. I mean come on, he's so bothered by Batman's methods but can't even defend his own name. It doesn't make sense. And even if it was a deliberate choice to show Clark not caring about Superman's reputation, then it makes him an unlikable protagonist and you can't blame me if I don't care when he dies

Even the court scene is a problem with script writing. They should have at least given a chance to say something about everything before the place blew up, instead of the Granny's Peach Tea nonsense. Just have your protagonist talk for goodness sake. He has such little lines of dialogue and it's so strange.

If BvS was a story about a hero that tried everything within his power to prove to the world he was a good man with good intentions, but a powerful man like Lex Luthor was able to manipulate the media and the system into saying otherwise, it could have been a really powerful statement. But the plot only works that way because Clark is so inhumanely passive about everything.

This.

I made the same exact argument about Superman in BvS some years back.

The movie should have gone into his head more and we as the audience should have understood where Clark was coming from after a few years of him being Superman. Having the co-protagonist of the movie have so few lines isn’t good film making especially when certain and scenes could and should have been scaled back.

[Castle]

As far as people arguing about Superman. I can't defend BvS but in MoS I think people don't recall all the good he did. I think alot of it gets lost because of the tone of the movie. People expect Superman to have a certain tone and Joy about it. But Snyder made it with the same somber tone most of his movies have. So I think that flavored people's idea of who this Superman was in that film.

I don't doubt for a second it was due to tone however that was a short term thing as if you have seen with time and years people have gotten over it. The tone effect only works if you want to directly equate man of steel 2013 to avengers 2012. perhaps some wanted man of steel to have the same tone as avengers 2012 because that was still the reigning comic movie and they didn't known how to handle superman having such a different tone to that.

The tone of man of steel was way ahead of its time. Am super happy, everyone has finally caught up to that or let me say, many have grown up to now appreciate the tone and the movie.

As far as people arguing about Superman. I can't defend BvS but in MoS I think people don't recall all the good he did. I think alot of it gets lost because of the tone of the movie. People expect Superman to have a certain tone and Joy about it. But Snyder made it with the same somber tone most of his movies have. So I think that flavored people's idea of who this Superman was in that film.

There is no chance on earth that anyone who has been a fan of superman was surprised by the tone. most superman films since superman returns has moved on from the certain tone of joy or cheeriness. the joy and cherry tone was more of people trying to make the new dc superman movies like MCU movies. it was not about superman because if you know superman, you would know not everything is joyful. Have you ever seen this superman movie?




And there are many more of this superman now in movies and books, Snyder just brought it to be big screen with a Bang!. If you notice that the people who were so thrown off by the tone, all of them were very much in love with MCU tone. it had nothing to do with Superman.

[Castle]

Snyder confirmed it on his social media: The Robin who died was ... Dick Grayson.

I'm even less happy about this new vision of the movie now.

Dick Grayson is a bad idea for sure. Me is still thinking it will be kept to small references. I can't see this as a sub plot.

The excitement is booming.

[lowfyr]

I don't doubt for a second it was due to tone however that was a short term thing as if you have seen with time and years people have gotten over it. The tone effect only works if you want to directly equate man of steel 2013 to avengers 2012. perhaps some wanted man of steel to have the same tone as avengers 2012 because that was still the reigning comic movie and they didn't known how to handle superman having such a different tone to that.

The tone of man of steel was way ahead of its time. Am super happy, everyone has finally caught up to that or let me say, many have grown up to now appreciate the tone and the movie.




There is no chance on earth that anyone who has been a fan of superman was surprised by the tone. most superman films since superman returns has moved on from the certain tone of joy or cheeriness. the joy and cherry tone was more of people trying to make the new dc superman movies like MCU movies. it was not about superman because if you know superman, you would know not everything is joyful. Have you ever seen this superman movie?




And there are many more of this superman now in movies and books, Snyder just brought it to be big screen with a Bang!. If you notice that the people who were so thrown off by the tone, all of them were very much in love with MCU tone. it had nothing to do with Superman.

Problem is even compared to this Version, the Snyder Version would still be too dark. Difference is simply that except for the fight against Doomsday he was the optimistic Character Superman is generally known for. Esp. compared to the Snyder version in Dawn of Justice. There he killed off Jimmy in the first few minutes and you would only know it if you watch the end credits or see an interview with him bragging about it. What is esp. jarring is that an animated movie did it better than the "real" movie.

But I forgot again. The movie was dark and gritty so it was more mature than the MCU right?

[Agent Z]

For some superhero fans, anything more serious than a Saturday morning cartoon qualifies as too dark and gritty.

[Castle]

For superhero fans,

Not Superman fans. Many superman fans are aware Superman gives it as good as it gets.

I remember one Justice League episode when Superman said, he only holds back when he needs too and people need to see just how powerful he is when its necessary.

anything more serious than a Saturday morning cartoon qualifies as too dark and gritty.

Batman TAS and X-Men TAS were Saturday morning cartoons. they are dark and gritty compared to most superhero films in 2019.

[Castle]

Problem is even compared to this Version, the Snyder Version would still be too dark. Difference is simply that except for the fight against Doomsday he was the optimistic Character Superman is generally known for. Esp. compared to the Snyder version in Dawn of Justice. There he killed off Jimmy in the first few minutes and you would only know it if you watch the end credits or see an interview with him bragging about it. What is esp. jarring is that an animated movie did it better than the "real" movie.

But I forgot again. The movie was dark and gritty so it was more mature than the MCU right?

Blade 2
X2
The Dark Knight
Spiderman 3

All these movies were darker than man of steel. I have seen darker movies that are not super dark. To think that the only reason man of steel got mixed reviews was because some felt it was dark was one of the worst criticism that ever happened in superhero films. Snyder is vindicated.

The Justice league Snyder cut is going to be darker, so brace yourself.
And for good information, the death of superman movie is darker than man of steel

[Thezmage]

Blade 2
X2
The Dark Knight
Spiderman 3

All these movies were darker than man of steel. I have seen darker movies that are not super dark. To think that the only reason man of steel got mixed reviews was because some felt it was dark was one of the worst criticism that ever happened in superhero films. Snyder is vindicated.

The Justice league Snyder cut is going to be darker, so brace yourself.
And for good information, the death of superman movie is darker than man of steel

This definition of “dark” is vastly at odds with the commonly accepted one

[Agent Z]

This definition of “dark” is vastly at odds with the commonly accepted one

I'd say the same thing when it comes to how often people exaggerate Man of Steel's "darkness". The movie wasn't anywhere near as grim as people say.

Like I said, "too dark and gritty" for superhero fans basically boils down to anything slightly more serious than a cartoon.

Problem is even compared to this Version, the Snyder Version would still be too dark. Difference is simply that except for the fight against Doomsday he was the optimistic Character Superman is generally known for. Esp. compared to the Snyder version in Dawn of Justice. There he killed off Jimmy in the first few minutes and you would only know it if you watch the end credits or see an interview with him bragging about it. What is esp. jarring is that an animated movie did it better than the "real" movie.

But I forgot again. The movie was dark and gritty so it was more mature than the MCU right?

I rest my case.

[Jokerz79]

Not Superman fans. Many superman fans are aware Superman gives it as good as it gets.

I remember one Justice League episode when Superman said, he only holds back when he needs too and people need to see just how powerful he is when its necessary.


Batman TAS and X-Men TAS were Saturday morning cartoons. they are dark and gritty compared to most superhero films in 2019.

X-Men TAS couldn't even say death they had to say "Destroyed" and couldn't kill Jean or the D'Bari in the Dark Phoenix Saga. While Endgame killed Natasha and Tony and Shazam killed the Board in the Board room scene two of the more "Family Friendly" comic book films of 2019 were "Darker and Grittier" than X-Men TAS a serious I love but let's not pretend it was "Darker and Grittier" then it was.

[Powerboy]

I'd say the same thing when it comes to how often people exaggerate Man of Steel's "darkness". The movie wasn't anywhere near as grim as people say.

Like I said, "too dark and gritty" for superhero fans basically boils down to anything slightly more serious than a cartoon.



I rest my case.

I think there are at least two factors at play.

One is that the MCU is currently the standard by which superhero movies are judged by most people. If, beginning to end, something is darker than an MCU movie, beginning to end, it's "too dark". If this was a few years ago and the Dark Knight movies were the standard, it would be different but it's not.

The other factor is that there is clearly a public opinion standard for all other superheroes and then there is the Superman standard. Iron-Man was killing people right and left when it was completely unnecessary and most people seem to have no problem with it. Superman kills one guy in a situation that leaves him no choice and he's the "Man of Murder".

Psychologically, the MCU had set up the expectations of a superhero movie which is that they would mostly be fun with enough drama to feel serious at times. If you walked into MoS with the expectation that DC was just going to capitalize on that and do the same (double your pleasure, double your fun), you were going to be disappointed.

[Jokerz79]

I think there are at least two factors at play.

One is that the MCU is currently the standard by which superhero movies are judged by most people. If, beginning to end, something is darker than an MCU movie, beginning to end, it's "too dark". If this was a few years ago and the Dark Knight movies were the standard, it would be different but it's not.

The other factor is that there is clearly a public opinion standard for all other superheroes and then there is the Superman standard. Iron-Man was killing people right and left when it was completely unnecessary and most people seem to have no problem with it. Superman kills one guy in a situation that leaves him no choice and he's the "Man of Murder".

Psychologically, the MCU had set up the expectations of a superhero movie which is that they would mostly be fun with enough drama to feel serious at times. If you walked into MoS with the expectation that DC was just going to capitalize on that and do the same (double your pleasure, double your fun), you were going to be disappointed.

Heart of the Tony vs Snyder Superman difference is Tony is driven by guilt over colleterial damage from Iron Man 2008 where he saw his weapons killing American Soldiers to Civil War. While Snyder's Superman seems to care little about colleterial damage from his fights.

Also Joker made a billion dollars and wasn't close to an MCU film in tone and that's what I think is what is the key to success matching tone to character.

[Nate Grey]

Having Dick Grayson being the Robin that’s dead is a bit stupid.

It is stupid but it does confirm something: Snyder doesn't like sidekicks. If he killed off Superman's most famous sidekick (Jimmy Olson) I guess it stands to reason he would have done the same for Batman's.

Welp there goes my theory that the Scott Eastwood character in Suicide Squad was an undercover Dick Grayson.

[Vakanai]

I had always hoped that the dead Robin would be Dick. No other Robins, no Nightwing, shows the whole kid or teen sidekick thing as a bad idea. People just think it's a bad idea because Dick's their favorite character and they want Nightwing.