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  1. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    How would you phrase it when someone is deliberately antagonising their audience? I'm taking about what he did after Man of Steel, both in the movies and with interviews. He's not doing this in a vacuum.
    Contrary to what certain people think, a guy not doing what you want is not the same as deliberately antagonising their audience. Snyder makes films he wants to make and not for the purpose of ruining people's childhoods. On the other hand, fans have proven they have no small amount of pettiness when it comes to creators they don't like.

  2. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by Powerboy View Post
    Very good points in the article and here that Snyder seems to skip over the main point of some of those works. Yes Superman in the real world would have to deal with all sorts of sick and crazy stuff. But the bottom line of Alan Moore's "Whatever happened to the Man of Tomorrow" was that a person with the kind of power Superman wields, once he crosses the line he did, must take away his own powers permanently because, regardless of the reason, nobody with his level of power has the right to do what he did.

    In Miller's DKR, Batman does not kill. That's the one line he doesn't cross.

    The lesson is that, even in a far darker world, the hero does what is right and is even more admirable for it. Snyder ignores the final lesson that the stories build up to and just glories in the violence along the way while missing the conclusion. And then accuses people of being superhero virgins for not accepting his superficial understanding of the stories he read.

    Incidentally, I do get that Snyder probably gets criticism all the time and I can certainly understand throwing a fit about it especially if he said this after the death of his child. At least he cares enough what people think to snap back. The very fact of reacting shows he does. In a way, that's far better than some smug elitist who considers the opinions of the audience irrelevant.
    BvS had Superman sacrificing himself to save the world and Batman admitting he was wrong (something not a lot of writers do these days). I also don't agree that tdkr Batman isn't a killer given how unstable he is. But then again, I never understood why everything superheroes did except killing was accepted by fans as if killing is the only moral line heroes have crossed.

  3. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    BvS had Superman sacrificing himself to save the world and Batman admitting he was wrong (something not a lot of writers do these days). I also don't agree that tdkr Batman isn't a killer given how unstable he is. But then again, I never understood why everything superheroes did except killing was accepted by fans as if killing is the only moral line heroes have crossed.
    Here is and will always be my issue with the DCEU Batman killing it makes Batman look like an idiot.

    I love Batman 89 and like Batman Returns and there is no argument Burton's Batman kills but at the end of his films Joker and Penguin are dead. That's the difference for me Burton went for a Golden Age pre Robin Batman and delivered a Batman who kills the villains if he deemed it necessary.

    The DCEU Batman kills goons like in the Batmobile chase, brands criminals to be killed in Prison, and wanted to kill Superman and the catalyst to this is hinted to be that Joker killed Robin. But Joker and the Rogues gallery are alive I mean seriously WTF.

    I'll give Titans credit when Dick visioned Batman snapping they at least had Batman going to Arkham and killing all the Rogues.

    If Batman kills then the Rogues need to be dead or he looks foolish IMO.

  4. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Contrary to what certain people think, a guy not doing what you want is not the same as deliberately antagonising their audience. Snyder makes films he wants to make and not for the purpose of ruining people's childhoods. On the other hand, fans have proven they have no small amount of pettiness when it comes to creators they don't like.
    This is far more than doing what I want, as it is how Snyder approaches criticism and how it influences how he makes projects. This is not a secret, as shown in his interviews. B vs S is a direct followup of the backlash he got from Man of Steel, rather than try to listen his movies go further to personally anger the fans who dislike his work. These are very deliberate decisions he makes, he's not subtle. He loathes people who dislike his DC films. He's not a neutral observer in this discussion. They do, but it's wrong for anyone who does it, including Snyder. Snyder's not he first artist to do this and won't be the last.
    Last edited by Steel Inquisitor; 05-24-2020 at 12:36 AM.

  5. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingaliencracker View Post
    I've already stated that I'll keep an open mind and watch it. I also stated that I believe it will be better than the butchered version we got simply because the plot will be more coherent and there will be more character development.

    But there was a reason why WB didn't release this in 2017 despite spending well over $200 million. All reports indicate that the assembly cut Snyder put together for WB executives just prior to leaving the project was a disaster. Further, while being vilified by some fans for the cut he put together, Whedon by all accounts did the best he could with the material he was given and the mandate by the studio to fix Snyder's mess. And what I said about how fans will ultimately react to his cut of Justice League will hold true. Those that loved Man of Steel and Batman V Superman will undoubtedly love his version of Justice League. But to be frank there weren't a lot of those fans in the first place, which is why both those films did poorly critically and underwhelmed commercially.

    Now, I liked MoS but acknowledge it had its share of flaws. I had hoped Snyder would have listened to the criticism and made an improved film in BvS. Instead, he doubled down on his vision and released a substantially more flawed film than MoS was (although again, his cut released on video was better than the theatrical version). From the sound of his story for JL, I don't see much change in direction or tone, and in fact it sounds like it's going to be much darker and more brooding than MoS and BvS combined.

    So I guess long story short, I'm definitely curious and give major props to the fans who pushed to make this happen. But I just think more mainstream fans (i.e. non-Snyder sycophants) are still going to be disappointed.
    For me MoS was pretty forgettable..

    Granted I only sat through it once... so a second viewing is over due.

    BvS i actually really loved. At least the first 2/3rds

    Introducing doomsday and playing out the death of superman was huge mistake. That story arc needs to be its own trilogy', not the after thought on a film recreating the dark night returns book.

    JL also was pretty enjoy able for a one time view but ive struggled to rewatch it.

    If Snyders JL is different enough I'll be excited.

    I definitely will watch it

  6. #141

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    DC themselves apparently isn't happy with the cut...

    https://screenrant.com/justice-leagu...mpaign=SR-FB-P

  7. #142
    The Nature Boy AnakinFlair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingaliencracker View Post
    DC themselves apparently isn't happy with the cut...

    https://screenrant.com/justice-leagu...mpaign=SR-FB-P
    Look, the Snyder Cut could be a cinematic masterpiece; it could also be a pile of crap. But DC at this point has no right to complain about it finally getting released.

    They chose Zack Snyder. They chose his vision. They stuck with it even after the mixed reaction for Man of Steel. They stuck with it even after the more negative reaction to Batman V Superman. They stuck with him when he turned in his original script for Justice League, and it seems they only started to have misgiving after the first footage started coming in. By that point, it was too freaking late. Instead of scrapping the movie (a costly proposition, and it's understandable why they didn't) or postponing the movie and retooling it properly, they chose to fire Snyder and bring in Wheedon, who then chose to basically remake the movie into what he wanted, which was Avengers DC. And that led to even more problems as the reshoots happened after Caville grew a mustache and couldn't contractually shave it off.

    DC made it's bed, now it has to lay in it. And if they are so worried about cannon, have HBO slap an Elseworlds label on it and call it a day.

  8. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingaliencracker View Post
    DC themselves apparently isn't happy with the cut...

    https://screenrant.com/justice-leagu...mpaign=SR-FB-P
    this whole article is literally conjecture. none of the pieces of history are wrong but there's no real source saying DC isn't happy with the cut

  9. #144
    King of Wakanda Midvillian1322's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnakinFlair View Post
    Look, the Snyder Cut could be a cinematic masterpiece; it could also be a pile of crap. But DC at this point has no right to complain about it finally getting released.

    They chose Zack Snyder. They chose his vision. They stuck with it even after the mixed reaction for Man of Steel. They stuck with it even after the more negative reaction to Batman V Superman. They stuck with him when he turned in his original script for Justice League, and it seems they only started to have misgiving after the first footage started coming in. By that point, it was too freaking late. Instead of scrapping the movie (a costly proposition, and it's understandable why they didn't) or postponing the movie and retooling it properly, they chose to fire Snyder and bring in Wheedon, who then chose to basically remake the movie into what he wanted, which was Avengers DC. And that led to even more problems as the reshoots happened after Caville grew a mustache and couldn't contractually shave it off.

    DC made it's bed, now it has to lay in it. And if they are so worried about cannon, have HBO slap an Elseworlds label on it and call it a day.
    To be fair to DC/WB Justice League was already started by the time they saw the reaction to BvS. They would had to shut that movie down which would lost them alot of money guaranteed.

    And suppsedy Snyder was never fired. He turned in a 4hr long film they weren't happy with and couldn't make the changes they demanded before he had to step away because of a family tragedy. So they brought Wheedon in and had him make the changes they wanted. Wheedon I feel bad for too.. Justice league doesn't have the highs of the other two films but it also doesnt have any of the other shit that makes watching them a chore. For me Justice league is the most watchable movie of the 3. It Flys by and I enjoy some of the characters.

    Side note I liked what Ray Fisher did with Cyborg. Hated the CG character design but when he was covered up in sweat I liked the way Ray played him. Hope we get that Cyborg back. Ezra Miller has most of the funny lines but yea iono still in the fence with him as flash. If that movie ever happens hope they bring Cyborg into it.
    Last edited by Midvillian1322; 05-24-2020 at 10:12 PM.

  10. #145
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    I think the "Superman is here the rest of the JLA can go home now" will still be there. Did not look like something Whedon would do. And yes I am aware that it seems to be thing now to make him look like a woman hating troll. Does not make it true.

    I just hope the rumour about Wonder Womans first scene in Snyders Version(the terrorists killing the hostages) is not true. But remembering that Snyder killed off Jimmy and you would only know it watching the after credits or an interview he made jokes about it, I am not very optimistic

  11. #146
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    I think if I’ll dislike anything from this movie it will be what I disliked the most about Whedon’s JL, and that was the reason for bringing Superman back to life. The idea of bringing someone back from the dead because they’re the only one who can save everyone is morbid and contrived. One of the really truly awful moments of that movie, because it makes the entire thing feel worthless. So idk if it was a Snyder thing or a Whedon thing, but if it’s the same in the Snyder cut I’ll probably be just as disappointed

  12. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elmo View Post
    I think if Iíll dislike anything from this movie it will be what I disliked the most about Whedonís JL, and that was the reason for bringing Superman back to life. The idea of bringing someone back from the dead because theyíre the only one who can save everyone is morbid and contrived. One of the really truly awful moments of that movie, because it makes the entire thing feel worthless. So idk if it was a Snyder thing or a Whedon thing, but if itís the same in the Snyder cut Iíll probably be just as disappointed
    If you really mean the second part of this comment, you should perhaps not write about "Whedon's JLA" in your first sentence.
    And as I said it does not look like something Whedon would do.

  13. #148
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    Meh, from my understanding even this 'Snyder Cut' isn't even really his vision for Justice League. His vision was a two parter involving the events of the future that Bruce saw. This cut is a compromise he was forced to make when WB told him no.

  14. #149

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    Given the response on this board, people care about the movie. Either they care enough to hope it'll be great, or they care enough to keep hating it.

    This movie will do very well for HBOMax.

    Quote Originally Posted by lowfyr View Post
    I think the "Superman is here the rest of the JLA can go home now" will still be there. Did not look like something Whedon would do. And yes I am aware that it seems to be thing now to make him look like a woman hating troll. Does not make it true.

    I just hope the rumour about Wonder Womans first scene in Snyders Version(the terrorists killing the hostages) is not true. But remembering that Snyder killed off Jimmy and you would only know it watching the after credits or an interview he made jokes about it, I am not very optimistic
    Since Superman is my favorite character, I'm glad when he's portrayed at his true, full power. All too often, Superman is thrown under the bus in JLA stories in order to give the others something to do.

    As far as WW and the hostages, I don't think that's a rumor. I think in Snyder's version, the hostages were killed.

    For those of you who are hoping ZSJL will not be dark -- please, stop hoping. It will definitely be dark. That's the point. They are fighting Darkseid, who is the living embodiment of darkness and hopelessness. That's what Kirby wanted. Of course, Kirby portrayed it in a comic-booky way, but Kirby created a world where children are tortured in Granny Goodness' home. In case you were never made aware, Apokolips is Kirby's version of Nazi Germany. Darkseid is Hitler. This isn't meant to be theme park movie stuff.

    I'm glad that Snyder is respecting the source material enough to portray it in its true horror and darkness. That way, when the JL does rally together and kick butt at the end, it will feel cathartic. I like the more serious tone of Snyder's movies. I really don't like the forced humor of the Marvel movies where in the middle of trying to defeat Thanos (Marvel's Darkseid knockoff), Captain America stops to admire his own ass on his past self. That's just out of character for him, but, yeah, it got a cheap laugh. I want JL to have the same sense of real tension that MoS and BvS had. Sitcom moments pull me out of the movie.

    Quote Originally Posted by DennisTheMenace View Post
    Meh, from my understanding even this 'Snyder Cut' isn't even really his vision for Justice League. His vision was a two parter involving the events of the future that Bruce saw. This cut is a compromise he was forced to make when WB told him no.
    The Snyder cut was never about Zach Snyder completing his intended vision for all the movies in his storyline. It was about letting him finish the one movie he had to walk away from. We know it's not the fulfillment of the 5-movie original plan. It's about us seeing all the footage he shot (with new voiceovers to smooth over the gaps in what he didn't get a chance to film) and getting some sense of what he intended. Plus, it's also a curiosity piece to allow us to compare this to the theatrical version and really get a sense of how Whedon changed things.
    Last edited by Comic-Reader Lad; 05-25-2020 at 08:22 AM.

  15. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowfyr View Post
    If you really mean the second part of this comment, you should perhaps not write about "Whedon's JLA" in your first sentence.
    And as I said it does not look like something Whedon would do.
    No actually I refuse to do what you ask. My post reads perfectly fine. And you and I have zero idea which was Whedon and which was Snyder. Unless you have a source, then please provide it.

    Whenever people quote me on this site they never actually want to talk about what I’m talking about, they latch onto a specific sentence then post something completely original. You are not god so just because you think something is not what Whedon might do doesn’t mean it isn’t

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