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  1. #241
    Extraordinary Member Jokerz79's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinsir View Post
    Man, most people who watch superhero films really don't know anything about cinema.

    >>> Billion dollars is an arbitrary standard
    >>> Snyder's MoS and BvS made money. The only project that didn't was JL, in which his version was shelved
    >>> Also, the MCU didn't make a billion dollar film until Avengers 1, their 6th film. Aquaman is the sixth DCEU film.

    The only philosophy Zach Snyder has openly spoken about in regards to the DCEU is auteur projects, where directors and writers are given creative freedom. Patty Jenkin's Wonder Woman and James Wan's Aquaman are both examples of this, as he served as a producer for both films.
    When Comparing to of DC films Nolan fits but if you're going for actual influence than for Joker it's Martin Scorsese he was once attached and the film was heavily influenced by Taxi Driver and King of Comedy where Snyder is more in the range of Michael Bay with better visuals.

    Money isn't arbitrary it, awards, and critic response are the only objective way to measure films everything else is subjective.
    MoS and BvS made money but not close to what WB wanted them too.
    The MCU also made a Billion with their 7th film Iron Man 3 what did the DCEU's 7th film Shazam make? & and I like Shazam it's my favorite DCEu film but trying to equate the early MCU to the DCEU is an false narrative. The MCU weren't making record breakers and had problems behind the scenes with Phase 1 but nothing close to the DCEU's issues most of which were created by WB Executives meddling.

    There are very few comic book films that can be considered "Auteur" projects especially ones connected to larger cinematic universe or made to be franchises. They are IP's owned by major corporations meant to create films that will make tons of money and spring board into franchises. They can be entertaining and have thought provoking messages but they are no where near "Auteur" Projects except to try to some how to make them sound classier.
    Last edited by Jokerz79; Yesterday at 11:29 AM.

  2. #242
    Amazing Member Castle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jokerz79 View Post
    When Comparing to of DC films Nolan fits but if you're going for actual influence than for Joker it's Martin Scorsese he was once attached and the film was heavily influenced by Taxi Driver and King of Comedy where Snyder is more in the range of Michael Bay with better visuals.
    Snyder is closer to Jerry Bruckheimer than Michael Bay.

    Money isn't arbitrary it, awards, and critic response are the only objective way to measure films everything else is subjective.
    Awards and critics response are not objective, In many instances awards have shown they can be bought, underserved or politically motivated. Critics many times play favourites or don't know what they are talking about. Some fans have turned out to be better critical judge than critics. Many critics have ignored important factors to praise a movie for something that is meaningless to the quality of the film.

    There is no film school in any universe that will tell you , A movie's objective results are about awards and critics response. When last did we see critics praising the writing or acting in any comic movie? critics just want them to be fun, especially the MCU films. Most DC films never had this narrative until WB showed lack of judgement.

  3. #243
    Fantastic Member Gotham citizen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Castle View Post
    […]
    Awards and critics response are not objective, In many instances awards have shown they can be bought, underserved or politically motivated. Critics many times play favourites or don't know what they are talking about. Some fans have turned out to be better critical judge than critics. Many critics have ignored important factors to praise a movie for something that is meaningless to the quality of the film.
    […]
    I can confirm that: a friend of mine was a movie critic.

  4. #244
    Chad Jar Jar Pinsir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jokerz79 View Post
    When Comparing to of DC films Nolan fits but if you're going for actual influence than for Joker it's Martin Scorsese he was once attached and the film was heavily influenced by Taxi Driver and King of Comedy where Snyder is more in the range of Michael Bay with better visuals.
    Nolan's notable work is mostly blockbuster, genre films though, and I doubt the poster I was replying too made that statement to comparing Joker to Dunkirk. Joker wears its influences on its shoulder and the Dark Knight isn't one of them, particularly in regards to the films realism. The Dark Knight is a realistic film when compared to other superhero films, but its not compared too other non-genre films. Also, sure Nolan had his name attached to the project, but I'm pretty Snyder's name is attached to Aquaman too.

    Money isn't arbitrary it, awards, and critic response are the only objective way to measure films everything else is subjective.
    Saying film franchise was failing/doing poorly because it didn't make a billion dollars is purely arbitrary. It's also just wrong, you can have a film franchise that never make a billion and still be hugely successful.

    Also, if you are implying that money, awards and critic responses are an objective means to measure the quality of a film then no, they aren't. You can't strong arm me into accepting a film is good because it has 1 or all of these qualities.

    MoS and BvS made money but not close to what WB wanted them too.
    You going to cite a source for this or are you going just by the feeling that, "Well, he's Superman, so he each film he makes should be a billion dollar grossing film!" Also, studios want every film to gross more than they did.

    The MCU also made a Billion with their 7th film Iron Man 3 what did the DCEU's 7th film Shazam make? & and I like Shazam it's my favorite DCEu film but trying to equate the early MCU to the DCEU is an false narrative. The MCU weren't making record breakers and had problems behind the scenes with Phase 1 but nothing close to the DCEU's issues most of which were created by WB Executives meddling.
    Basically you're saying, "You're right, I can't have that."

    There are very few comic book films that can be considered "Auteur" projects especially ones connected to larger cinematic universe or made to be franchises. They are IP's owned by major corporations meant to create films that will make tons of money and spring board into franchises. They can be entertaining and have thought provoking messages but they are no where near "Auteur" Projects except to try to some how to make them sound classier
    .

    The statement I replied too said Aquaman didn't represent Zach Snyder's philosophy, when it actually does. Also, some of the more recent MCU are also clearly auteur films, James Gunn's GotG is an obvious example.
    Last edited by Pinsir; Yesterday at 01:38 PM.
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  5. #245
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinsir View Post
    Man, most people who watch superhero films really don't know anything about cinema.
    Joker was much closer to Nolan's aesthetic than Snyder's.



    >>> Billion dollars is an arbitrary standard
    >>> Snyder's MoS and BvS made money. The only project that didn't was JL, in which his version was shelved
    >>> Also, the MCU didn't make a billion dollar film until Avengers 1, their 6th film. Aquaman is the sixth DCEU film.
    Billion dollars is a standard Aquaman lived up to, and Snyder's films didn't. That's an achievement to be proud of, made possible by James Wan. They made money but not MCU money, unlike Aquaman. And yet they still made that money under Fiege and not under Snyder.



    The only philosophy Zach Snyder has openly spoken about in regards to the DCEU is auteur projects, where directors and writers are given creative freedom. Patty Jenkin's Wonder Woman and James Wan's Aquaman are both examples of this, as he served as a producer for both films.
    Snyder's philosophy about film is making cool scenes, brutal violence, having anti-heroes for protagonists who like killing and less emphasise on the story to focus on visuals. Snyder being their producer proves nothing, what did he actually do on those films? AS far as I know he helped the story on Wonder Woman but that was Jenkins' project and he has less to do with Aquaman. Aquaman was made in a period after Snyder's influence was at its height, that's why Arthur had a story arc about killing someone and being regretful and Snyder's doesn't. At no point does Superman killing people bought up as a story arc in films, all we see his is him crying after killing Zod then he kills hostage takers without breaking a sweat.

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