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  1. #226
    Astonishing Member Joker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by matthew View Post
    Saying it's a step down doesn't imply that it is shameful to be making movies for Netflix. It's 1 step down, not 5 steps down. He could be making movies for Crackle or Hallmark.
    Or Netflix just let you make the shit you want, but you get a smaller budget. That happens in Hollywood all the time. So you make a creative choice. I don't follow his career choices, so I don't know why he's making a movie for Netflix. I don't really care either.


    Quote Originally Posted by matthew View Post
    Snyder is making movies for Netflix because his last few movies did poorly, that's just the flat truth. He'd rather being with WB still and taking in a bigger paycheck.
    But then there's this, and...

    *Checks notes*

    Snyder is making a movie for WB. Dunno what else to say. He is actively doing the things you keep suggesting he is not doing, or unlikely to do again.

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

  2. #227
    Astonishing Member Coal Tiger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joker View Post
    But then there's this, and...

    *Checks notes*

    Snyder is making a movie for WB. Dunno what else to say. He is actively doing the things you keep suggesting he is not doing, or unlikely to do again.

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
    He’s doing postproduction work on a miniseries for a streaming service.

  3. #228
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    Quote Originally Posted by Castle View Post
    WB showed lack of judgement. Reacting too quickly with BvS and using Whedon to make JL like Avengers. WB does not care anymore what people think. WB has figured out they don't have to be subdued to make movies from the MCU playbook. Joker has made them see the light. The worse that would happen is for critics to trash the Snyder cut, but guess what, no one is going to listen to the lame ass critics. Fans are not going to be influenced by them, The Snyder's cut is going to be much better than Endgame that was a boring incoherent mess.
    What? B v S was a failure, why wouldn't WB be skeptical about keeping him after that? Their mistake was signing him up right after B vs S was finished and let him get too far into Justice League before they knew the full reaction to B v S. WB didn't kick Snyder off JL to replace him with Whedon, Whedon was already there as a writer and consultant and when Snyder's family had their family tragedy he stepped in because Snyder was not ready to continue filming. WB doesn't care what Snyder thinks anymore, people love the post Snyder DCEU - it's more liked and financially valuable than Snyder's vision was. Joker has nothing to do with Snyder, that was a one-off and went in a whole other direction to Snyder's DCEU. The professional critics weren't Snyder's problem it was the general audience, who agreed with the critics. People will feel whatever they like about the Snyder's Cut when it's released they're not obligated to "like" anything Snyder does. Critics and the general audience disagree with you about Endgame.

  4. #229
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    We're not supposed to yet it was undermined how Superman's characterised as a ticking tie bomb waiting to go off. All it takes is for someone to murder Lois and he becomes Injustice Superman, and he was on edge from the start of B vs S. I don't know why he has a problem with Batman, Batman's just doing what he does except with bullets.
    Not smiling =/= ticking time bomb.

    The one scene of him as Injustice Superman was an out of context dream and even then it was only going to happen because of Darkseid mind controlling him.

    Superman kills a grand total of one person in BvS and it's a zombie monster created from Zod's corpse. I get you hate the movie but making shit up that didn't happen in it is just pathetic.

  5. #230
    Spectacular Member Castle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    What? B v S was a failure, why wouldn't WB be skeptical about keeping him after that? Their mistake was signing him up right after B vs S was finished and let him get too far into Justice League before they knew the full reaction to B v S. WB didn't kick Snyder off JL to replace him with Whedon, Whedon was already there as a writer and consultant and when Snyder's family had their family tragedy he stepped in because Snyder was not ready to continue filming. WB doesn't care what Snyder thinks anymore, people love the post Snyder DCEU - it's more liked and financially valuable than Snyder's vision was.
    WB let Snyder go without stopping to think correctly. The Snyder cut is more of a remedy to that mistake.

    Joker has nothing to do with Snyder, that was a one-off and went in a whole other direction to Snyder's DCEU.
    Joker has a lot to do with DC, Snyder's cut is part of DC.


    The professional critics weren't Snyder's problem it was the general audience, who agreed with the critics. People will feel whatever they like about the Snyder's Cut when it's released they're not obligated to "like" anything Snyder does. Critics and the general audience disagree with you about Endgame.
    Critics and general audience liking a movie does not mean the movie is good.

  6. #231
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Not smiling =/= ticking time bomb.
    Nope, him not smiling is the about least wrong thing about Cavill's Superman. He could do the exact same scenes while smiling and come off as wrong because of how he's directed in Snyder's films. This isn't about aesthetic, this is about characterisation. A lonely god with small ties to his humanity, and a merchant for killing is a time bomb.

    The one scene of him as Injustice Superman was an out of context dream and even then it was only going to happen because of Darkseid mind controlling him.
    Which is caused by Lois dying, its heavy implied she's his biggest connection to humanity with his parents being second. That's why Batman brings her to Superman once he's revived. It's not like he was the epitome of mental stability before, he's an edgy loner who kills without a second thought. Rather than reflecting on killing Zod as a bad thing in Man of Steel he's embraced it by B v S.

    Superman kills a grand total of one person in BvS and it's a zombie monster created from Zod's corpse. I get you hate the movie but making shit up that didn't happen in it is just pathetic.
    Superman murders General Amajagh early in the film, and ignores whenever Batman murders people in his presence, like in Gotham.



    Someone flying at super speed through two brick walls isn't going to walking away from it, unless they're Superman. That's the plan Lois is counting on when he rescues her and its implied this is a regular thing they do when she's held hostage. She smiles, goes limp and waits for Superman to strike.

    He knew Batman was doing and seconds after Lex's goons left he shows up to intimidate Batman into retiring, he doesn't react to their deaths or follow up on their activities - they're beneath his notice and so is the destruction Batman caused. Occasionally he protects people, like in Man of Steel, but overall the collateral damage when he's in fights with god level opponents is nil. He never contemplates the casualties from his fight with Zod, how he could have done it with less destruction or remorse for anyone in the line of fire. He threatens to kill Lex on the spot with heat vision when they first meet, too, and this is a Superman with experience after Man of Steel. It's very unlike Superman.

  7. #232
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    Seeing as I never saw Infinity War & Endgame as either tightly written or character complex or ‘astonishingly good writing experiences’ I don’t expect the Snyder version of JL will be much worse than those movies, even if it isn’t as ‘fun.’ I certainly expect the Snyder version to have better cinematography and music than either of those two movies, even if the script isn’t as coherent since both MOS and BVS have some really cool magnificent scores, and look really good. They certainly have better scores/visuals than anything the Russos have ever directed and that alone fills me up with a lot of excitement.
    Last edited by Amadeus Arkham; 05-30-2020 at 01:31 PM.
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  8. #233
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    Nope, him not smiling is the about least wrong thing about Cavill's Superman. He could do the exact same scenes while smiling and come off as wrong because of how he's directed in Snyder's films. This isn't about aesthetic, this is about characterisation. A lonely god with small ties to his humanity, and a merchant for killing is a time bomb.
    It also isn't anything like Snyder's Superman.


    Which is caused by Lois dying, its heavy implied she's his biggest connection to humanity with his parents being second.
    Being brainwashed by taking advantage over trauma of someone you care for dying doesn't make you an edgy loner who kills without a second thought. otherwise he would have turned into a villain after his father died and his first response to Zod wasn't even to kill him.

    That's why Batman brings her to Superman once he's revived. It's not like he was the epitome of mental stability before, he's an edgy loner who kills without a second thought. Rather than reflecting on killing Zod as a bad thing in Man of Steel he's embraced it by B v S.
    So you missed the part of him begging Zod to stop in MoS, trying to negotiate with him and the fact he clearly wasn't happy when he killed him? Did you actually watch a single second of these movies at all?



    Superman murders General Amajagh early in the film, and ignores whenever Batman murders people in his presence, like in Gotham.
    I'm guessing that would be a no to my question then.

    Occasionally he protects people, like in Man of Steel, but overall the collateral damage when he's in fights with god level opponents is nil.
    Clark spends more time rescuing people in MoS than he does in virtually any other Superman movie. In fact, he deliberately avoided fighting anyone until the Zod invasion.

    He never contemplates the casualties from his fight with Zod, how he could have done it with less destruction or remorse for anyone in the line of fire. He threatens to kill Lex on the spot with heat vision when they first meet, too, and this is a Superman with experience after Man of Steel. It's very unlike Superman.
    Clark threatened to kill the guy who almost murdered his girlfriend, had framed him for murders he did not commit and had revealed to have been holding his mother hostage. Clark has threatened people for things just as bad or even less. And even then, he still saved Luthor from Doomsday.

    It's like the people who hated these movies are too busy whining about the supposed darkness in them to actually pay attention to what actually happens in them. Clark is nowhere near as bad as he is demonized by you and most of what you complain about has far more mitigating circumstances and has precedent in the comics. Any other hero being brainwashed wouldn't be blamed for falling victim to a villain's control but with Snyder's Superman people have to perform all kinds of mental gymnastics to make it the fault of him even though he's the victim. Killing a genocidal tyrant whom Clark had tried negotiating with in good faith makes him the villain instead of someone who made a difficult choice in a crappy situation caused by said genocidal tyrant. And apparently he doesn't care about Batman's killings despite those being the reason he confronted Batman in the first place. It's like reading one of those fan fics were someone insists that every thing the hero did was really evil and the bad guy was the real victim. I haven't seen any demonization of a heroic character this absurd since reading the posts by Azula apologists as the height of Avatar's popularity.

  9. #234
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    Quote Originally Posted by Castle View Post
    WB let Snyder go without stopping to think correctly. The Snyder cut is more of a remedy to that mistake.
    Their latest efforts have shown they were right. Snyder's cut is his last hurrah, striking while the iron is hot in a pandemic. It's telling this only got green lit than before the pandemic, they've been working on this for months and produced nothing of merit.

    Joker has a lot to do with DC, Snyder's cut is part of DC.
    The Joker isn't in the DCEU, and is not doing what Snyder's done. It's Nolan's realism, not Snyder's edgy aesthetic. Snyder's cut is from part of the old DCEU, not current DCEU. Snyder releasing it won't make it canon.

    Critics and general audience liking a movie does not mean the movie is good.
    If you want to measure it via money Snyder loses there, as well. It wasn't until after he left the DCEU got billion dollar windfalls.



    This movie represents the opposite of Snyder's philosophy about the DCEU!

  10. #235
    Spectacular Member Castle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    Their latest efforts have shown they were right. Snyder's cut is his last hurrah, striking while the iron is hot in a pandemic. It's telling this only got green lit than before the pandemic,
    Snyder's cut was already a strong movement before the pandemic.
    they've been working on this for months and produced nothing of merit.
    Nothing of merit? by whom? This movie has a chance to be a merited film to the 2016 Whedon mess.
    If you want to measure it via money Snyder loses there, as well. It wasn't until after he left the DCEU got billion dollar windfalls.
    I never tried to measure it by money. You tried to measure MCU by money. Good for purely product movies.

    This movie represents the opposite of Snyder's philosophy about the DCEU!
    Man of Steel is a better movie.

  11. #236
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    Quote Originally Posted by Castle View Post
    Snyder's cut was already a strong movement before the pandemic.
    Which produced nothing in getting the film made, until after the pandemic arrived.

    Nothing of merit? by whom? This movie has a chance to be a merited film to the 2016 Whedon mess.
    The movie wasn't being made until after the pandemic, until then all it was a "movement" (it's not) and celebrities boosting support on social media. Now they're finally making a product.

    I never tried to measure it by money. You tried to measure MCU by money. Good for purely product movies.
    You implied that only your opinion with a movie was all that mattered, so I went around that to measure success. I measured the DCEU by money, Aquaman's not from Marvel.

    Man of Steel is a better movie.
    That's a subjective opinion, not a fact.

  12. #237
    Fantastic Member Gotham citizen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    Which produced nothing in getting the film made, until after the pandemic arrived.
    […]
    If they can announce this Snyder's cut now, it means that in the past weeks/months they worked to make this new release: sign on the actors, the technicians and so on.

    Anyway I don't understand this resentment toward this Snyder's cut: if they decided to do it, it means they have seen a possible profit, so why shouldn't the Warner Bros take this chance? After all no one forces us to see this movie, we can decide to see it, we can decide not to see it, we can decide to like it, we can decide to dislike it… If would be a problem (a serious one) if we don't have the right to decide, but because we have this right I don't see any problem.
    To me it seems that some people almost fear it would be a successful movie and I don't understand why; I'm not talking about the user of this forum.

  13. #238
    Spectacular Member Castle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gotham citizen View Post
    If they can announce this Snyder's cut now, it means that in the past weeks/months they worked to make this new release: sign on the actors, the technicians and so on.

    Anyway I don't understand this resentment toward this Snyder's cut: if they decided to do it, it means they have seen a possible profit, so why shouldn't the Warner Bros take this chance? After all no one forces us to see this movie, we can decide to see it, we can decide not to see it, we can decide to like it, we can decide to dislike it… If would be a problem (a serious one) if we don't have the right to decide, but because we have this right I don't see any problem.
    To me it seems that some people almost fear it would be a successful movie and I don't understand why; I'm not talking about the user of this forum.
    You said it yourself, the hate is all about fear that the movie would be successful and would possibly climb over the Avengers films.


    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    Which produced nothing in getting the film made, until after the pandemic arrived.
    .
    Ok, so you are blaming the Snyder cut on COVID-19? LMAO. Whatever.

    The movie wasn't being made until after the pandemic, until then all it was a "movement" (it's not) and celebrities boosting support on social media. Now they're finally making a product.
    So its about COVID-19?

    WB has a reputation for making movies not products.

    You implied that only your opinion with a movie was all that mattered, so I went around that to measure success. I measured the DCEU by money, Aquaman's not from Marvel.
    Success is a state of mind. product formula success have little impact. Man of Steel has had more impact than Aquaman.

    That's a subjective opinion, not a fact.
    Man of Steel is a better movie than Aquaman. There are more objective opinions to support that.

  14. #239
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    Quote Originally Posted by Castle View Post

    Nothing of merit? by whom? This movie has a chance to be a merited film to the 2016 Whedon mess.
    .
    Regarding its merits a consensus has already been reached and it has been found wanting as a movie by the critics and also whatever episodic version Snyder is working on is no longer considered a film. It's either a tv show or a streaming show.

  15. #240
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    The Joker isn't in the DCEU, and is not doing what Snyder's done. It's Nolan's realism, not Snyder's edgy aesthetic. Snyder's cut is from part of the old DCEU, not current DCEU. Snyder releasing it won't make it canon.
    Man, most people who watch superhero films really don't know anything about cinema.

    If you want to measure it via money Snyder loses there, as well. It wasn't until after he left the DCEU got billion dollar windfalls.
    >>> Billion dollars is an arbitrary standard
    >>> Snyder's MoS and BvS made money. The only project that didn't was JL, in which his version was shelved
    >>> Also, the MCU didn't make a billion dollar film until Avengers 1, their 6th film. Aquaman is the sixth DCEU film.

    This movie represents the opposite of Snyder's philosophy about the DCEU!
    The only philosophy Zach Snyder has openly spoken about in regards to the DCEU is auteur projects, where directors and writers are given creative freedom. Patty Jenkin's Wonder Woman and James Wan's Aquaman are both examples of this, as he served as a producer for both films.
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