Zack Snyder's JUSTICE LEAGUE on HBOmax in 2021!

[Castle]

This is a really depressing take that feels like it comes from a place of lack of self-confidence. I love comics, but I don't need to get worked up because some people don't see comics as a "serious art form." I don't care what people see comic books as. It doesn't affect my life and honestly, I am far more interested in the work of Jack Kirby, Roy Thomas, or Mike Allred for a modern example than the try hard "We Demand to be Taken Seriously!!!1!" work of Frank Miller and the ilk. I see the value in the latter and I enjoy some of it, but I don't understand why you're coming here trying to make it seem like one direction is inherently better than the other.

None of these movies are Taxi Driver or 2001: A Space Odyssey or Seven Samurai or The 400 Blows. Why are you trying so hard to defend the honor of a movie that frankly is not really all that different than any of the other movies?

No I don't feel it is depressing at all, If anyone was around in the 90s even comic cartoons like Batman/Spiderman/X-Men TAS did not do the kids comic bookie things., they told harder darker challenging stories.

Also to say it does not affect your life is not really simple, you have to realize people do the stuff for a living. I am sure some comic book writers are millionaires, so when it is their profession you bet they are going to take it seriously and do the best they can

None of these movies are Taxi Driver or 2001: A Space Odyssey or Seven Samurai or The 400 Blows. Why are you trying so hard to defend the honor of a movie that frankly is not really all that different than any of the other movies?

Why don't you look at it as, what movies will be the equivalent in comic book films?

[Castle]

So your evidence is that they compared a good movie to a bad movie with a similar plot and this is now "unprofessional?" And now he was "forced to copy marvel style" by dumbing down Batman V Superman?

Except batman v superman is not dumbed down, also critics have a lot to say for saying civil war good, BvS bad because it is grim.

So because the themes aren't as "bash you over head" obvious they aren't there? I thought dumbed down movies were bad, now you're saying that movies have to be dumbed down so that their point comes across?

The villain of Ragnarok was LITERALLY the sins of their empire coming back to haunt them. There isn't ambiguity in this.

Themes in general should not be handled in a generic and derivate sense that you can easily ignore if you want too in the films. it's is just weak writing. it is even worse when you do so in comic films because no one excepts that in comic films in the first place.

Maybe some may feel Snyder went overboard with superman's depression and lack of self confidence but it is better than doing the opposite, making a superman film post 2010

[CosmiComic]

I totally understand that. But I'd like to point out that Kubrick set out to make an adult science fiction movie that explored Mankind's place in the universe that would invoke a sense of awe and wonder. He also collaborated with Arthur C Clarke, a renowned sci fi writer who was more interested in doing big ideas over smaller human stories. The end result is a critically acclaimed movie with stunning visuals that hold up over 50 years later. Kubrick made the exact movie he wanted which is regarded as a masterpiece.

Also it looks pretty if you watch it stoned.

I guess so. (not about the stoned part haha)

[Username taken]

I totally understand that. But I'd like to point out that Kubrick set out to make an adult science fiction movie that explored Mankind's place in the universe that would invoke a sense of awe and wonder. He also collaborated with Arthur C Clarke, a renowned sci fi writer who was more interested in doing big ideas over smaller human stories. The end result is a critically acclaimed movie with stunning visuals that hold up over 50 years later. Kubrick made the exact movie he wanted which is regarded as a masterpiece.

Also it looks pretty if you watch it stoned.

It's been a while since I've watched a movie while high.

Last movie I watched was "Body of Evidence" with Madonna.

It was shlocky fun.

[Castle]

See, I am in two minds about that- why should it come from human upbringing? To me, that kinda implies that Clark needs humans to become a good person - Why can't it be an idea he arrived on his own? It's an interesting take to explore, and I am glad that they explored it.

After all, Donner took a lot of liberties as well, which were then reincorporated back into comics (presentation of Krypton, re-visioning Luthor's motivations and writing him as an evil capitalist, rather than a scientist who grew up with Clark).

https://nerdist.com/article/how-supe...hanged-comics/

Donner took liberties for a 1978 film. Snyder also took the same liberates for a 2013 film.

Let me even ignore many never read superman comics, but surely they saw Justice League unlimited? Superman is tougher and gritter in that series than even Batman.

[LifeIsILL]

There are the expected negative and positive reviews but the one thing I’m seeing that I’ve never seen from previous Snyder films is rave reviews. It’s really odd.

The superhero movies that have achieved a genuine sweeping transcendence can just about be counted on one hand… to that hallowed list I would now add Zack Snyder’s Justice League.
– Owen Gleiberman, Variety

This four-hour cut is the kind of brazen auteurist vision that Martin Scorsese was calling for when he complained (rightly) that most modern superhero movies don’t resemble cinema.
– Matt Zoller Seitz, RogerEbert.com

I'm guessing Snyder toned down the usual bullshit he does and just made a regular but darker superhero movie.

[CosmiComic]

I'm guessing Snyder toned down the usual bullshit he does and just made a regular but darker superhero movie.

You mean boring colorless cinematography, half-baked philosophy and lack of meaningful human emotion?

[Castle]

So about the r rating, it seems that it was worth it for the most part because I heard Diana's fight scenes were pretty violent and it showed how much of a powerful demigod fighter she is when she is not restricted by PG. However Bruce dropping the f bomb may be more mixed for some people.

[Mace Dolex]

So about the r rating, it seems that it was worth it for the most part because I heard Diana's fight scenes were pretty violent and it showed how much of a powerful demigod fighter she is when she is not restricted by PG. However Bruce dropping the f bomb may be more mixed for some people.

How are you seeing it early?

[Shunt]

Why don't you look at it as, what movies will be the equivalent in comic book films?

Well, at least in my case I'm not sure what the equivalent comic book films are, but I know that, for all the Miller or Moore you name drop (understandable, since he's adapted those authors' material), Snyder seems more like the film equivalent of Rob Liefeld to me.

edit: grammar and spelling

[SiegePerilous02]

Well, at least in my case I'm not sure what are the equivalent comic book films, but I now that, for all the Miller or Moore you name drop (understandable, since he's adapted those author's material), Snyder seems more like the film equivalent of Rob Liefeld to me.

Funnily enough, Liefeld tweeted that he loved the movie lol

[Thezmage]

Except batman v superman is not dumbed down, also critics have a lot to say for saying civil war good, BvS bad because it is grim.

No, they say BvS was bad because it was dumbed down. A bunch of unrelated Christ imagery doesn't make a plot that centers around "they should be friends because their moms had the same name" not dumbed down. Civil War was a much smarter film in comparison. Sure, they could've made the point that Batman V Superman was a terrible, terrible movie without comparing it to a much, much better movie, but that doesn't make them unprofessional or bad critics or whatever your argument is at this point I really can't remember exactly why you brought this up in the first place.

Themes in general should not be handled in a generic and derivate sense that you can easily ignore if you want too in the films. it's is just weak writing. it is even worse when you do so in comic films because no one excepts that in comic films in the first place.

So you've switched from "dumbed down movies are inherently bad" to "plots must be dumbed down as much as possible because otherwise you don't have a theme?" Just because you somehow managed to miss a very obvious theme doesn't mean it wasn't there.

Maybe some may feel Snyder went overboard with superman's depression and lack of self confidence but it is better than doing the opposite, making a superman film post 2010

So now making Superman films after 2010 is a problem? So Snyder is bad now from your perspective for making two Superman films post 2010?

[Jackalope89]

No, they say BvS was bad because it was dumbed down. A bunch of unrelated Christ imagery doesn't make a plot that centers around "they should be friends because their moms had the same name" not dumbed down. Civil War was a much smarter film in comparison. Sure, they could've made the point that Batman V Superman was a terrible, terrible movie without comparing it to a much, much better movie, but that doesn't make them unprofessional or bad critics or whatever your argument is at this point I really can't remember exactly why you brought this up in the first place.



So you've switched from "dumbed down movies are inherently bad" to "plots must be dumbed down as much as possible because otherwise you don't have a theme?" Just because you somehow managed to miss a very obvious theme doesn't mean it wasn't there.



So now making Superman films after 2010 is a problem? So Snyder is bad now from your perspective for making two Superman films post 2010?

To be fair, many of us are waiting for Snyder to make 1 Superman film.

[CosmiComic]

To be fair, many of us are waiting for Snyder to make 1 Superman film.

I laughed at this more than I should have. But to be fair, he did make his own interpretation of Superman in MoS. I defended it back then, I even liked parts of BvS, but after all these years, and getting to better know both heroes, I agree he didn't do Clark justice (ironic, isn't it?)

[SiegePerilous02]

No, they say BvS was bad because it was dumbed down. A bunch of unrelated Christ imagery doesn't make a plot that centers around "they should be friends because their moms had the same name" not dumbed down. Civil War was a much smarter film in comparison. Sure, they could've made the point that Batman V Superman was a terrible, terrible movie without comparing it to a much, much better movie, but that doesn't make them unprofessional or bad critics or whatever your argument is at this point I really can't remember exactly why you brought this up in the first place.

I really fail to see how BvS isn't dumbed down in comparison to Civil War, since the former has a lot of leaps in logic and plot holes and characters generally doing dumb things even in the UC. And since it demands to be taken seriously, it becomes harder to let some things slide in this movie that you might let slide in another movie.

His JL cut being built around a fairly straight forward plot, the invasion from Apokolips, may actually be beneficial to him. It's aiming to be an action epic with a straight forward villain, it's easy to be onboard for that ride. Though the descriptions of stuff like Hippolyta communicating to Diana that the invasion is coming still sounds sillier than even the Golden Age comics. A quick Mental Radio conversation would be a lot more economical use of screen time.