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  1. #151
    Spectacular Member Menacer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elmo View Post
    No actually I refuse to do what you ask. My post reads perfectly fine. And you and I have zero idea which was Whedon and which was Snyder. Unless you have a source, then please provide it.

    Whenever people quote me on this site they never actually want to talk about what I’m talking about, they latch onto a specific sentence then post something completely original. You are not god so just because you think something is not what Whedon might do doesn’t mean it isn’t
    For some reason I always assumed that the film was essentially snyder footage. That jose just cut it up more and added some humor...

    As far as superman coming back to life, i mean isnt that a given for a film like JL... id have assumed that was always in the script .. tho it likely would have played out differently had Snyder had final cut

  2. #152
    Fantastic Member Wandering_Wand's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Menacer View Post
    For some reason I always assumed that the film was essentially snyder footage. That jose just cut it up more and added some humor...

    As far as superman coming back to life, i mean isnt that a given for a film like JL... id have assumed that was always in the script .. tho it likely would have played out differently had Snyder had final cut
    Fabian Wagner (Snyder's cinematographer) and Jay Oliva (helped Zack storyboard JL and also worked with Zack on his overall original 5 film plan) have both mentioned that the theatrical cut had about 25% of what Snyder shot. Wagner specifically said that, Jay Oliva has been more roundabout in saying it. Zack Snyder was also quoted in an interview as saying he was told from trusted sources that we saw about 25% of what he shot in the theatrical release.

    While I'm on about all of this, I'll throw the following out for everyone. It's already on the Internet but spoilers ahead for what was originally the 5 film Snyder Superman arc:


    Superman was always coming back to life, there was the dirt rising from his coffin at the end of BvS that Snyder debated putting in there, but decided to so everyone knew he wasn't really dead. It's not something WB made Zack change early on or anything, again citing what we've been told about the 5 film plan.

    Superman's journey was going to take even more interesting turns in Justice League Part II when the JL take the fight to Apokolips, get their butts kicked by Darkseid, then he goes to Earth, kills Lois who is hiding in the Batcave and by doing so, subjects Superman to the anti-life equation. Then between JL II and Justice League Part III (this one is actually the final film in the original plans and has been "untitled"), Flash was going to fix everything by running back in time preventing Lois's death, etc. and the JL finding a way to defeat Darkseid and then stepping into the heroes they were all born to be, etc. All of this was drawn up some time shortly after Man of Steel released in 2013, IIRC.

    Anyway, people can debate all of that all they want, just know it's very very unlikely we'll see any of it at this point since it seems like AT&T/HBO Max are simply letting Snyder "finish" his original intent with Justice League as a trilogy capper of sorts. Which, I'm happy with that and won't ask for more at this point.

  3. #153
    Spectacular Member Menacer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wandering_Wand View Post
    Fabian Wagner (Snyder's cinematographer) and Jay Oliva (helped Zack storyboard JL and also worked with Zack on his overall original 5 film plan) have both mentioned that the theatrical cut had about 25% of what Snyder shot. Wagner specifically said that, Jay Oliva has been more roundabout in saying it. Zack Snyder was also quoted in an interview as saying he was told from trusted sources that we saw about 25% of what he shot in the theatrical release.

    While I'm on about all of this, I'll throw the following out for everyone. It's already on the Internet but spoilers ahead for what was originally the 5 film Snyder Superman arc:


    Superman was always coming back to life, there was the dirt rising from his coffin at the end of BvS that Snyder debated putting in there, but decided to so everyone knew he wasn't really dead. It's not something WB made Zack change early on or anything, again citing what we've been told about the 5 film plan.

    Superman's journey was going to take even more interesting turns in Justice League Part II when the JL take the fight to Apokolips, get their butts kicked by Darkseid, then he goes to Earth, kills Lois who is hiding in the Batcave and by doing so, subjects Superman to the anti-life equation. Then between JL II and Justice League Part III (this one is actually the final film in the original plans and has been "untitled"), Flash was going to fix everything by running back in time preventing Lois's death, etc. and the JL finding a way to defeat Darkseid and then stepping into the heroes they were all born to be, etc. All of this was drawn up some time shortly after Man of Steel released in 2013, IIRC.

    Anyway, people can debate all of that all they want, just know it's very very unlikely we'll see any of it at this point since it seems like AT&T/HBO Max are simply letting Snyder "finish" his original intent with Justice League as a trilogy capper of sorts. Which, I'm happy with that and won't ask for more at this point.
    Oh well that is exciting! Definitely more intrigued to see Snyders version then.

    Thanks

  4. #154

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    Quote Originally Posted by Midvillian1322 View Post
    To be fair to DC/WB Justice League was already started by the time they saw the reaction to BvS. They would had to shut that movie down which would lost them alot of money guaranteed.

    And suppsedy Snyder was never fired. He turned in a 4hr long film they weren't happy with and couldn't make the changes they demanded before he had to step away because of a family tragedy. So they brought Wheedon in and had him make the changes they wanted. Wheedon I feel bad for too.. Justice league doesn't have the highs of the other two films but it also doesnt have any of the other shit that makes watching them a chore. For me Justice league is the most watchable movie of the 3. It Flys by and I enjoy some of the characters.
    The argument that WB was somehow stuck with Snyder for Justice League following the mediocre response to Batman v Superman just isn't true. Principle photography for JL started about a month after BvS was released. While WB could have potentially lost some money by cutting ties with Snyder and finding a new director prior to filming, there are TONS of films throughout history that have fired directors or otherwise had them leave much sooner to principle photography beginning than what would have been the case with JL and Snyder.

    WB at the time had a good relationship with Snyder because he worked fast and stayed within budget. I think they were hoping that they could steer him in a good direction and fix the mistakes perceived in BvS. But of course that wound up not happening, and the rest is history.

    And yes, I absolutely believe Snyder was fired from the film and that they used his daughter's tragic death as a way to avoid too many questions being asked about it.

  5. #155
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    ^ Well, the previous studio heads certainly hid the fact that they rushed the film's release in order to collect their bonuses...

  6. #156
    Extraordinary Member WebLurker's Avatar
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    Wonder what they'll do about the reshoots that needed actors that weren't finished before?
    Doctor Strange: "You are the right person to replace Logan."
    X-23: "I know there are people who disapprove... Guys on the Internet mainly."
    (All-New Wolverine #4)

  7. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wandering_Wand View Post
    Fabian Wagner (Snyder's cinematographer) and Jay Oliva (helped Zack storyboard JL and also worked with Zack on his overall original 5 film plan) have both mentioned that the theatrical cut had about 25% of what Snyder shot. Wagner specifically said that, Jay Oliva has been more roundabout in saying it. Zack Snyder was also quoted in an interview as saying he was told from trusted sources that we saw about 25% of what he shot in the theatrical release.

    While I'm on about all of this, I'll throw the following out for everyone. It's already on the Internet but spoilers ahead for what was originally the 5 film Snyder Superman arc:


    Superman was always coming back to life, there was the dirt rising from his coffin at the end of BvS that Snyder debated putting in there, but decided to so everyone knew he wasn't really dead. It's not something WB made Zack change early on or anything, again citing what we've been told about the 5 film plan.

    Superman's journey was going to take even more interesting turns in Justice League Part II when the JL take the fight to Apokolips, get their butts kicked by Darkseid, then he goes to Earth, kills Lois who is hiding in the Batcave and by doing so, subjects Superman to the anti-life equation. Then between JL II and Justice League Part III (this one is actually the final film in the original plans and has been "untitled"), Flash was going to fix everything by running back in time preventing Lois's death, etc. and the JL finding a way to defeat Darkseid and then stepping into the heroes they were all born to be, etc. All of this was drawn up some time shortly after Man of Steel released in 2013, IIRC.

    Anyway, people can debate all of that all they want, just know it's very very unlikely we'll see any of it at this point since it seems like AT&T/HBO Max are simply letting Snyder "finish" his original intent with Justice League as a trilogy capper of sorts. Which, I'm happy with that and won't ask for more at this point.
    Well, I'm not against Superman coming back to life, I just think the reason for it was inappropriate. it would have been better if someone like Steppenwolf or Darkseid had brought him back to life and that would have better explained why he fights the JL after they bring him back.

    "my big plan for this superhero team doesn't seem to be working out, so let's dig up Clark Kent's grave and make him help us, because he was the greatest hero ever"

    it not only negates Bruce's journey in BvS but also Superman's death itself and the impact it has on the film's world. it should not have been as easy as it was, and their excuse for doing it was dumb. so I'm personally hoping the Snyder cut has a different explanation for Superman's resurrection.

    p.s. Vic and Barry digging up the grave is 10000% a reshoot

  8. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elmo View Post
    No actually I refuse to do what you ask. My post reads perfectly fine. And you and I have zero idea which was Whedon and which was Snyder. Unless you have a source, then please provide it.

    Whenever people quote me on this site they never actually want to talk about what Iím talking about, they latch onto a specific sentence then post something completely original. You are not god so just because you think something is not what Whedon might do doesnít mean it isnít
    "And you and I have zero idea which was Whedon and which was Snyder." "You are not god so just because you think something is not what Whedon might do doesnít mean it isnít"
    That is my point. You do the thing you are accusing me, if you say stuff like "Whedons JLA" and I called you out on your double standard.
    And i did say "I think" so i did not try to sell it as fact.

  9. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowfyr View Post
    "And you and I have zero idea which was Whedon and which was Snyder." "You are not god so just because you think something is not what Whedon might do doesn’t mean it isn’t"
    That is my point. You do the thing you are accusing me, if you say stuff like "Whedons JLA" and I called you out on your double standard.
    And i did say "I think" so i did not try to sell it as fact.
    I didn’t do anything but wonder if the concept and execution in bringing Superman back (not the idea itself) in Justice League was a Whedon or Snyder decision and you’re telling me I should rephrase my post. What you posted was completely irrelevant to me. The movie I was talking about what was Whedon’s JL, because that is the film that was released. What I choose to call that movie doesn’t matter. And then “as I said it does not look like something Whedon would do” what does that matter? That sentence gives the impression that I’m even reading your posts. Let’s end this because it’s completely pointless.

    To make it abundantly clear, I think the primary idea—that Batman decides to bring Superman back because he’s run out of options—could most likely be a Snyder decision, but there is a lot that makes me think otherwise, and there may be a lot of layers to that decision or other methods that were not present in Whedon’s JL. All I’m saying is that it was my biggest criticism of JL as a film and I’m wondering if the process for Superman’s resurrection will be any different in SC.
    Last edited by Elmo; 05-26-2020 at 12:48 AM.

  10. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elmo View Post
    I didnít do anything but wonder if the concept and execution in bringing Superman back (not the idea itself) in Justice League was a Whedon or Snyder decision and youíre telling me I should rephrase my post. What you posted was completely irrelevant to me. The movie I was talking about what was Whedonís JL, because that is the film that was released. What I choose to call that movie doesnít matter. And then ďas I said it does not look like something Whedon would doĒ what does that matter? That sentence gives the impression that Iím even reading your posts. Letís end this because itís completely pointless.

    To make it abundantly clear, I think the primary ideaóthat Batman decides to bring Superman back because heís run out of optionsócould most likely be a Snyder decision, but there is a lot that makes me think otherwise, and there may be a lot of layers to that decision or other methods that were not present in Whedonís JL. All Iím saying is that it was my biggest criticism of JL as a film and Iím wondering if the process for Supermanís resurrection will be any different in SC.
    "That sentence gives the impression that Iím even reading your posts" If you write stuff like that than "Letís end this because itís completely pointless" is the only thing we agree on. But you will never know will you?

    Seeing that you are answering my posts would make you not reading them more than a little strange. So I will do the same and stay away from your posts. Not because of your arguments but the tone you are using.

  11. #161
    Better than YOU! Alan2099's Avatar
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    To make it abundantly clear, I think the primary idea—that Batman decides to bring Superman back because he’s run out of options—could most likely be a Snyder decision, but there is a lot that makes me think otherwise,
    It seems a lot like how they handled Doomsday in the previous movie, so there is some precedence for that kind of thinking.

  12. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowfyr View Post
    "That sentence gives the impression that I’m even reading your posts" If you write stuff like that than "Let’s end this because it’s completely pointless" is the only thing we agree on. But you will never know will you?

    Seeing that you are answering my posts would make you not reading them more than a little strange. So I will do the same and stay away from your posts. Not because of your arguments but the tone you are using.
    To answer your question, no, I have not been crying

  13. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan2099 View Post
    It seems a lot like how they handled Doomsday in the previous movie, so there is some precedence for that kind of thinking.
    Exactly, but I also feel that it greatly undercuts the movie’s general premise in a lot of ways. So really I could make a case for either side

  14. #164
    Incredible Member Slowpokeking's Avatar
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    I don't have to much expectation, just want to see something new.

  15. #165
    King of Wakanda Midvillian1322's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebLurker View Post
    Wonder what they'll do about the reshoots that needed actors that weren't finished before?

    Seen reports that Snyder reached out to the main cast. They all seem to love him , so they might do it on the cheap. Someone like Jason Mamoa might show up for free on his own dime. Just seems like that kinda guy. Affleck gonna be the tough one because I think he wants nothing to do with batman. Though he did say he was happy for Zach so maybe.

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