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  1. #616
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    [QUOTE=Castle;5038559]1.
    Quote Originally Posted by Synestra View Post

    8. MCU did not deal with trauma or ptsds. marvel did not want to approach any story relating to that. That is objective for the many who had worked with marvel. ts funny you mentioned PTSDS and truma because Ben Affleck already said Dawn of Justice was meant to be more ''adult'' or in his word.-glib and realistic themed than MCU movies. Affleck would not have said that, if marvel did deal with truma and PTSD. Affleck is a marvel fan.
    [https://www.comingsoon.net/movies/news/610753-marvel-vs-dc-ben-affleck-says-dc-movies-are-a-little-more-realistic-and-less-glib[/url]

    9. I remember how poorly they handled Thor's PTSDs, it is mostly unexistent in the film. Why would Snyder care about Thor? that is not how Snyder's writes characters.Batman's PTSD and truama of loosing his parents and what superman and zod did in man of steel was real and present in dawn of justice thanks to Snyder.
    8. you should watch MCU movies sometime, because that is just wrong. It would be faster to say who is not having some kind of Trauma in the MCU.

    So objective you are wrong again with "That is objective for the many who had worked with marvel" as usual.

    And please stop using "adult" as a catch-all for movies being good. That does not work that way. It just makes you look juvenile.





    9. And in this point you manage to contradict yourself and just one point later. Making up arguments again and again is not really helping to take you seriously. To say nothing about it being "unexistint" in the movie. Again try to watch the movies unbiased next time. But that would require you to leave your MCU hate behind.

    He cared enough about Thor to make his comments about him.
    Last edited by lowfyr; 07-08-2020 at 02:20 AM.

  2. #617
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    Quote Originally Posted by Midvillian1322 View Post
    Lol at The MCU doesn't deal with Trauma. The first GOTG was all about Trauma. Groot is the only character who isn't scarred by trauma.
    His next comment will likley be that objectivly the Guardians movie did not deal with Trauma, because it was a "comedy", Ignoring the fact that movies can be one thing and have others too. I mean even Nolans Dark Knight had jokes in it.

  3. #618
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    Quote Originally Posted by HsssH View Post
    Many of their first meetings start with a fight.
    Really? Which ones besides New 52?

  4. #619
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    Iron Man 3 is all about Stark reacting to the PTSD he got from Avengers. Not liking a movie is not the same as the movie not having themes or topics in it.

  5. #620
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    Quote Originally Posted by Midvillian1322 View Post
    Expect hes Cleary not nihilistic outside his view on God. Hes a egomaniac who wants to assert domiance over everyone. He even says Doomsday will obey only him. Guess he thought cause he used his blood. Not well thought out since the movie shows us nothing that suggest that would work. Lex has nothing in common with TDK Joker at all. He want to be superior to everyone, that doesn't work if he burns it all down. He wanted Doomsday to be his weapons which doesn't work for even a second.
    Quote Originally Posted by Midvillian1322 View Post
    Lol at The MCU doesn't deal with Trauma. The first GOTG was all about Trauma. Groot is the only character who isn't scarred by trauma.
    As I already mentioned with Lex involved with the Pentagon
    1.He has wide reach and had plenty of avenue through surveillance to know who Bruce and Clark were.How did he know about Bruce wanting to kill Superman?Chalk it down to one mogul either rubbing shoulders more regularly with another mogul or doing corporate espionage.He had a Metropolis rebuilding crew that puts him in direct contact with work crews sifting through Wayne building rubble, so he must have known how many people Bruce lost in the BZE ..PLUS he was intercepting Wallace Keith's cheques,that is direct connection to bitterness from Keith being placated by Batman most likely out of guilt.Out of all the superheroes it is not absurd to presume he knew most about Bruce,I'm even certain they met before,the way they interacted at the gala suggests they were not close but crossed paths before.

    The Pentagon and CIA being part of covert dealings with Lex means they would not spill the beans on him,that is why he was a bit cocky towards Lois,though by his words he meant more that moment Doomsday was cooking,and all the world be in ruins(blow away like sand in the desert) Although with Lex disgraced and taken in because of Doomsday ,the tables turned and the bullet plot serves to exonerate Superman(I think I read somewhere that someone read the newspaper in the post Superman death that had information about the Africa fatalities attributed to him)

    As for the build up to Justice League it was ok in my opinion,no one knew Zack would suffer a tragedy and step down.He filmed that having known he would pay off the scene in JL,apparently it was in the film and Whedon cut it out.So for me it is not jarring it serves an immediate purpose even if you don't consider Bruce's resolve to take down Kal because the Lex warning of Darkseid coming is not out of nowhere,it shows the league is needed as whatever Bruce saw again gives him resolve to set up the League(find us Bruce)

    As for Lex I follow what was in the film not cut out he says:
    'You flew too close to the sun now look at you?' when bleeding over Zod.He says it with pain because he knows power corrupts,it is the classic Greek tale of Daedalus and Icarus.Icarus was crafted wings to flee a labyrinth but out of hubris and pride flew close to the sun and the wax holding the wings melted and he fell in the sea and drowned. So he probably identified with power corrupting his own father,Zod and so I don't think control is paramount in his psyche,as long as he weilds the power in the way he does he is at peace ,not Superman wielding power and using it for selfless good.He doesn't believe in that being truly possible because he is a tormented guy twisted into a belief that power destroys everyone even himself.If you notice when Doomsday roared he was revelling in it.He did not really believe he could control Doomsday, I know it was cut out in the movie but the way he almost maniacally proclaims Darkseid is coming ,shows he is not after control but just exercising power in a brutal way so to him being under Darkseids thrall is almost joyous.
    Last edited by Rev9; 07-08-2020 at 05:00 AM.

  6. #621
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    Quote Originally Posted by 80sbaby View Post
    He threatens Batman. He doesn't try to reason with him. Stop it lol
    You're saying a different thing now though. I obviously agree Superman threatens Batman, but threatening people is an attempt to reason with them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    They didn't have to be friends to talk to each other, have you watched World's Finest? They're supposed to be super-heroes, when that encounter may as well be from super-villains making edgy quips. Since when did Superman threaten people when he first mets them? Batman may not speak as much but he should have done much more in that conversation, as well. They act more like drunken frat bros trying to be edgy than their real selves.

    Superman threatens villains he just met all the time and that is how Superman viewed Batman; as a villain.
    #InGunnITrust, #ZackSnyderistheBlueprint, #ReleasetheAyerCut

  7. #622

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinsir View Post
    You're saying a different thing now though. I obviously agree Superman threatens Batman, but threatening people is an attempt to reason with them.
    It is definitely not. Reasoning with people is an attempt to appeal to their sense of, well, reason. An attempt to change their minds

    Threatening somebody is attempting to appeal to their sense of fear. No attempt is made to change minds, simply inspire fear

  8. #623
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinsir View Post
    You're saying a different thing now though. I obviously agree Superman threatens Batman, but threatening people is an attempt to reason with them.
    No I'm not and no it isn't. He wasn't trying to engage in discourse. He destroyed the car, made his threat then left.

  9. #624
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    Quote Originally Posted by Midvillian1322 View Post
    Lol at The MCU doesn't deal with Trauma. The first GOTG was all about Trauma. Groot is the only character who isn't scarred by trauma.
    GOTG is a movie were they brightened or made the trauma irreverent with the endless jokes an no reoccurring moments on the issues.

    When I think of truma and PTSDs, GOTG does not come to my mind. I think Bruce Wayne story in Dark Knight Rises or Logan in The Wolverine is more fitting to understanding truma and PTSDs.

    Additionally if MCU dealt with Truma why would they ommit it from their movies. We all know the stories of the Iron Man movies after the first film. How MCU kept on shuffling out gritter stories.

    Finally. trauma and ptsds in a comedy movie? this does not really go well unless its R rated, black comedy or satire. The comedy factor alone destroys the relevancy of the issues because it is not something you are meant to be laughing about in the first place.

  10. #625
    A Sinful Delight Synestra's Avatar
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    Yes, I did shorten the redundant parts of your post to focus on the key points. As the redundancy is escalating.
    Quote Originally Posted by Castle View Post
    I did not make fan boy arguments.
    When you attempt to pass subjective opinion as objective fact, that is making a fanboy argument.
    It is a time frame, Thor had a movie out in 2011 and was part of a movie in 2012. Superman had not had a movie since 2006.
    Snyder did not reference a time frame when making the comment, it was general in nature. Additionally, he still insinuated that the character did not deserve to have a movie.
    RT does not support any evidence of a movie's quality.
    Again, this is a straw man argument. I never claimed RT determined a movie's quality. The basis of the discussion originated from your assertions about critics' response to Snyder's movies and his attempt to elevate them above the MCU.
    • Quote Originally Posted by Castle View Post
      Snyder's plan was to elevate Superman above movies like black panther and thor that would be seen as plain . safe and generic. This is what some critics could not tolerate
      Quote Originally Posted by Synestra View Post
      it wasn't just critics who had less than stellar opinions, even before Justice League.
    My response is that while you may subjectively think Man of Steel and BvS are better, objectively audiences embraced and supported the MCU films more.
    Man of steel had had more impact
    This is blatantly false, which is supported by the information that has been provided about the movies already.
    it got people looking at comic films again beyond the fun innocence in post Avengers 2012 world.
    A few things to note here:
    1. "Fun and innocent" are not negative points of criticism
    2. One moive being darker than another does not make it better


    And to mention again, audiences were also less receptive to MoS and BvS, not just critics.
    If you want to keep metacritc, imdb and rotten tomatoes on the table you have to apply that to every film on RT, and you are not so that atomically makes the data irrelevant.
    Except we don't. They only need to be applied to the films relevant to the discussion, because it is a very specific discussion about the MCU and the DCEU. You continue attempting to dismiss anything that doesn't fit your views, which is amusing because the review sites are not the main points of the argument. They are supporting evidence of audience reception.
    Are there are excuses for captain marvel? once a data has one or two flaws the entire data is collapsed in credibility.
    Ignoring that the first sentence makes no grammatical sense, you have to account for the situations. MoS and BvS had massive amounts of hype surrounding them, so much so that BvS made $422.5 million in it's opening. Yet by the second weekend, it experienced a "historic" box office drop.

    Box Office: Inside 'Batman v. Superman's' Historic Drop-off

    The fact that BvS made almost half of $1 billion in it opening, and had such a significant decline so quickly, is evidence of the audience reaction despite starting with the major advantage of being the film to bring together the DC Trinity.
    who is to say you cannot bomb positive scores? Who is to say people don't have sock accounts rating movies 10 times.
    Except we know that Captain Marvel was review bombed by people with an agenda.


    I'm providing actual information. You're delving into speculation that doesn't actually support an argument.
    man of steel raised more interesting themes
    That is subjective, much like whether or not the religious themes were liked or not. But objectively, the heavy handed religious themes are often cited as a point of criticism in relation to the movie.
    MCU did not deal with trauma or ptsds.
    1. "Captain America: Civil War surrounds a political policy and Iron Man 3 chronicles Tony Stark battling PTSD, among other serious character and story conflicts."
    2. How GUARDIANS OF THE GALAXY Celebrates the Family We Choose


    Trauma is literally the motive for numerous characters in the MCU.

    Why would Snyder care about Thor? that is not how Snyder's writes characters.
    Good question, since he clearly thought the character, among other MCU characters, weren't worth having movies. Only for the MCU characters to objective surpass Snyder's.

  11. #626
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thezmage View Post
    It is definitely not. Reasoning with people is an attempt to appeal to their sense of, well, reason. An attempt to change their minds

    Threatening somebody is attempting to appeal to their sense of fear. No attempt is made to change minds, simply inspire fear
    Many arguments appeal to fear, even scientific and factual ones such as the existence of global warming and how to address it. Threats usually involve some sort of recourse, not even necessarily a violent one. Telling a child to behave otherwise they aren't gonna get some cookies is a threat and is a way to reason with a child.
    #InGunnITrust, #ZackSnyderistheBlueprint, #ReleasetheAyerCut

  12. #627
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    Quote Originally Posted by Castle View Post
    GOTG is a movie were they brightened or made the trauma irreverent with the endless jokes an no reoccurring moments on the issues.

    When I think of truma and PTSDs, GOTG does not come to my mind. I think Bruce Wayne story in Dark Knight Rises or Logan in The Wolverine is more fitting to understanding truma and PTSDs.

    Additionally if MCU dealt with Truma why would they ommit it from their movies. We all know the stories of the Iron Man movies after the first film. How MCU kept on shuffling out gritter stories.

    Finally. trauma and ptsds in a comedy movie? this does not really go well unless its R rated, black comedy or satire. The comedy factor alone destroys the relevancy of the issues because it is not something you are meant to be laughing about in the first place.
    True I don't think Marvel know how to handle PTSD, classic point is Thor saying he lost his eye to his sister,lost his friend and brother and his mother bizzarely but just look at Quill chiming in 'It's not a competition but my father killed my mother and I killed my father' all the while almost breaking into laughter like wtf..Marvel do not know when levity stops and profundity begins they just don't.Everything is a joke

  13. #628
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rev9 View Post
    True I don't think Marvel know how to handle PTSD, classic point is Thor saying he lost his eye to his sister,lost his friend and brother and his mother bizzarely but just look at Quill chiming in 'It's not a competition but my father killed my mother and I killed my father' all the while almost breaking into laughter like wtf..Marvel do not know when levity stops and profundity begins they just don't.Everything is a joke
    What I am confused about is, they are saying marvel deals with this issues when MCU says they don't. Am confused. I would like to think and hope they are talking more about marvel films of Logan, Deadpool , The wolverine.

    the only marvel characters I know who have the same level of trurma and ptsds like Batman and Superman is Wolverine and Magneto not Thor or Iron Man, so I can see why Snyder has an attraction to Wolverine and would have loved to have done a Wolverine movie and not Thor.
    Last edited by Castle; 07-08-2020 at 11:57 AM.

  14. #629
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    Quote Originally Posted by Castle View Post
    What I am confused about is, they are saying marvel deals with this issues when MCU says they don't. Am confused. I would like to think and hope they are talking more about marvel films of Logan, Deadpool , The wolverine.

    the only marvel characters I know who have the same level of trurma and ptsds like Batman and Superman is Wolverine and Magneto not Thor or Iron Man, so I can see why Snyder has an attraction to Wolverine and not Thor.
    Actually Marvel movies and Fox movies are night and day,I agree the MCU diehards keep adding the XMen films( which to me were pretty good by and large except Apocalypse and Last Stand) when they would say Marvel can do drama,but we now know that since the merger this will change.I LOVE X-Men as my fave Marvel superheroes and I DREAD what Marvel will do with the X-Men now. It's going to be turned into a freaking cheesefest. After Logan and First Class or DoFP there will be a nosedive in quality you best beleive
    Last edited by Rev9; 07-08-2020 at 12:00 PM.

  15. #630

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinsir View Post
    Many arguments appeal to fear, even scientific and factual ones such as the existence of global warming and how to address it. Threats usually involve some sort of recourse, not even necessarily a violent one. Telling a child to behave otherwise they aren't gonna get some cookies is a threat and is a way to reason with a child.
    Those arguments are still attempts to change one's mind and appeal to reason (when they are good arguments, of course) and distinctly different from threatening people to submit to your authority

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