Zack Snyder's JUSTICE LEAGUE on HBOmax in 2021!

[SiegePerilous02]

John Wick is a good example of a niche action film that has grown in audience by leaps and bounds, what I don't know is if the pool is just action film fans or general family audience.

I doubt the first John Wick movie was as expensive to make as most CBMs, so it being niche to start with wasn't as much of a death sentence as a big blockbuster that was expensive to make and can't appeal to a broad enough audience to make an investment back

[CliffHanger2]

Tell that to Firefly. Or Star Trek. Heck, the vast majority of comic book movies I've seen I'm not a fan of, much less read, the source material.



Maybe a non-COVID-19, non-streaming example would work better.

Star Trek is a really good example of fans building a franchise. It aired for 3 seasons and was canceled gained a cult following through re-runs and got it's first movie-what-20 years later.

[80sbaby]

Yeah it's usually WoM from hardcore fans that bring ppl in. WW 84 is getting a sequel and was panned by critics and fans alike and didn't do well in theaters. But nobody is waging campaigns to say it shouldn't happen for whatever reason.

That's just not backed up by the numbers. There's waaaayore casual/general audience members than hardcore fans.

[CliffHanger2]

John Wick is a good example of a niche action film that has grown in audience by leaps and bounds, what I don't know is if the pool is just action film fans or general family audience.

Yeah Wick is a good example.

[green_garnish]

Star Trek is a really good example of fans building a franchise. It aired for 3 seasons and was canceled gained a cult following through re-runs and got it's first movie-what-20 years later.

10 years, but the point is made.

[CliffHanger2]

That's just not backed up by the numbers. There's waaaayore casual/general audience members than hardcore fans.

Yeah the general audience is bigger. But random audiences don't build and sustain franchises over decades it's fans of those movies.

[80sbaby]

Star Trek is a really good example of fans building a franchise. It aired for 3 seasons and was canceled gained a cult following through re-runs and got it's first movie-what-20 years later.

To be fair, that was also a much different time period. Expectations and available alternate entertainment options makes a pretty big difference, imo.

Firefly is analogous to Star Trek and we see how that turned out. Hell, most of the show's on Syfy channel fail despite an avid fanbase. Trek seems more the exception as opposed to the rule.

[CliffHanger2]

10 years, but the point is made.

Okay so I was off by a decade lol.

[Menacer]

Movie studios caving to paying fans is way better than caving to critics. In pretty much every way.

I believe both man of steel and BvS Ultimate Edition are on the all time top selling blu ray list. 19 and 47 respectively... the list has been going since 2009...

In any case considering bvs was released deep into the streaming era the studios are obviously aware these films have at the very least a cultish following.

How its seen as caving makes no sense. They see potential huge profits. Particularly essentially releasing the same project twice. Tho the final result will be vastly different.

[CliffHanger2]

I believe both man of steel and BvS Ultimate Edition are on the all time top selling blu ray list. 19 and 47 respectively... the list has been going since 2009...

In any case considering bvs was released deep into the streaming era the studios are obviously aware these films have at the very least a cultish following.

How its seen as caving makes no sense. They see potential huge profits. Particularly essentially releasing the same project twice. Tho the final result will be vastly different.

Yeah you're right it isn't caving. It's just smart business, the suits aren't leaving money on the table to appease fickle critics. They're hedging their bets on a built in audience.

[Jack The Tripper]

Movie studios caving to paying fans is way better than caving to critics. In pretty much every way.

I think it depends really. A lot of fans of these characters didn't like this adaptation and were critical of it - so they are also critics. I think a lot of us feel that this will just give us another bad/mediocre version of these characters, when the money could have been put toward something better. Not to mention that it feels like a step backwards at this point, when we could have gotten another Superman movie paid for with 100 million or so spent on this cut.

People often forget that most of the vocal critics of these films are fans of the source material.

[Menacer]

I think it depends really. A lot of fans of these characters didn't like this adaptation and were critical of it - so they are also critics. I think a lot of us feel that this will just give us another bad/mediocre version of these characters, when the money could have been put toward something better. Not to mention that it feels like a step backwards at this point, when we could have gotten another Superman movie paid for with 100 million or so spent on this cut.

People often forget that most of the vocal critics of these films are fans of the source material.

Firstly Im not sure its fair for you to speak for the fans. I loved BVS. Out of the 50 or so marvel and dc projects bvs unlimited is in my top 5 easy. You dont get the crazy snydercut fan base if people dont like snyder movies... and i like a bunch of his.

The whole source material this argument is also garbage. If zack can point to a few issues that inspired this adaption then he's being faithful. Obviously he isnt inspired by the 60s batman books... if nolan can be regarded as faithful, or tim, or the batman 66 stuff, then zack is being faithful to the aspects that he enjoys...

But he may not he tapping into the issues you find to be "faithful"

[80sbaby]

Firstly Im not sure its fair for you to speak for the fans. I loved BVS. Out of the 50 or so marvel and dc projects bvs unlimited is in my top 5 easy. You dont get the crazy snydercut fan base if people dont like snyder movies... and i like a bunch of his.

The whole source material this argument is also garbage. If zack can point to a few issues that inspired this adaption then he's being faithful. Obviously he isnt inspired by the 60s batman books... if nolan can be regarded as faithful, or tim, or the batman 66 stuff, then zack is being faithful to the aspects that he enjoys...

But he may not he tapping into the issues you find to be "faithful"

Jack didn't say every fan felt this way but most of the criticism does come from fans of these characters.

[Jack The Tripper]

Firstly Im not sure its fair for you to speak for the fans. I loved BVS. Out of the 50 or so marvel and dc projects bvs unlimited is in my top 5 easy. You dont get the crazy snydercut fan base if people dont like snyder movies... and i like a bunch of his.

The whole source material this argument is also garbage. If zack can point to a few issues that inspired this adaption then he's being faithful. Obviously he isnt inspired by the 60s batman books... if nolan can be regarded as faithful, or tim, or the batman 66 stuff, then zack is being faithful to the aspects that he enjoys...

But he may not he tapping into the issues you find to be "faithful"

I'm not speaking for the fans lol I'm clearly talking about fans of the source material who don't like the Snyder films (of which there are many). At no point have I said that no fans of the comics would like these films. I also didn't mention anything that deemed Snyder's versions of the characters to be objectively wrong/incorrect, I was just stating my opinion on what a lot of comic fans found wrong with the movies.

Just basically saying a lot of the critics are fans of the characters, so saying "it's better to cave to fans than to critics" kind of contradicts itself in this instance. I'm not trying to say your idea of what makes a good Batman/Superman movie is incorrect in comparison to mine.

The source material aspect is not garbage, it's subjective.

[Jack The Tripper]

Jack didn't say every fan felt this way but most of the criticism does come from fans of these characters.

Exactly