Zack Snyder's JUSTICE LEAGUE on HBOmax in 2021!

[80sbaby]

Bringing up Civil War is a weird flex since Cap actually DID tell Tony exactly what was going on but Tony just didn't care. That's what people are saying SHOULD HAVE happened in BvS.

[Castle]

That's what people are saying SHOULD HAVE happened in BvS.

there we have it. All of sudden its a different mind set.

bringing civil war is on point, I think its a great idea because both movies were highly competitive back then and civil war wont even have happened if not for Snyder doing Dawn of justice.

Bringing up Civil War is a weird flex since Cap actually DID tell Tony exactly what was going on but Tony just didn't care.

So civil war is worse, because tony was aware but he let his ego get in the way to the point of bringing in spiderman because??????

Batman in the film was not aware of anything because he did not want to listen to superman.

So out of the two. tony come off worse than batman. at least batman was mostly ignorant, tony wasnt.

[80sbaby]

there we have it. All of sudden its a different mind set.

bringing civil war is on point, I think its a great idea because both movies were highly competitive back then and civil war wont even have happened if not for Snyder doing Dawn of justice.


So civil war is worse, because tony was aware but he let his ego get in the way to the point of bringing in spiderman because??????

Batman in the film was not aware of anything because he did not want to listen to superman.
So out of the two. tony come off worse than batman. at least batman was mostly ignorant, tony wasnt.

Are you serious? It's NOT different because it's literally what 3 different posters have said. Why aren't you even reading what you're arguing against?

[SiegePerilous02]

Superman told Batman, he needed to stop vigilanting since his vigilanting was causing damage. that does not sound like a person who does not care.

Didn't Clark confront Bruce at Lex party of the wrongs Batman was doing to Bruce's annoyance? that does not sound like a person that does not care.

This is in the film

He also just passive aggressively flies away after Batman has left destruction and dead men in his wake after a conflict he started. That does not sound like a person who cares.

This is ALSO in the film. How about that?

But this is not a plot problem. Remember Civil War? they could have cut the bs of the airport fight and unnecessarily bringing in spiderman for the fun of it. I hope you had the same issue with that movie, since that was worse than what you find wrong with Dawn of justice.

Superman told Batman to stay down, if he wanted it he would be dead already so Superman wanted to stop, he didnt even want to fight. the fight only continued because batman kept on attacking and not just attacking, he stated using kyptonite, Superman at the moment had no choice but to try and bring batman down. that is how most superman fights goes in the comics.he usually holds back and tell others to surrender because he knows how poeerful he is, I must ask, have you read the many of the comics? or maybe watched one of his popular cartoons? that was the same way things went with shazam vs superman in justice league unlimted, its free on youtube to watch and shazam was not using kyptonite like batman in the movie.

Him saying stay down is yet more posturing and wasted dialogue when he can actually say what he needs to say. Batman was down for a few moments and catching his breath, and not just during one instance during that fight, before Kryptonite came into the equation.
Superman is a moron.

Yes I've read comics. Superman usually talks more in those instances when he wants to defuse a fight. Yes I've seen those other things, none of which matter when discussing this film. How do you know I'm even a fan of those (I'm not)? You bringing them up indicates a lack of confidence in the moving you're defending if you feel the need to bring in unrelated stuff to prop it up.

Wow 'The Bat is dead,bury it' is SOO different from 'Bury the Bat' don't worry I don't need to watch the movie to respond to you.Good on you that you know the lines.That gives me hope you do understand what I say


Even if he did tell him all you said hovering in the air let us say,on the back of all I've told you do you believe Batman would believe him,hovering there at that point? Bruce still sees him as an alien,whatever Superman would say would not land.Batman was filled with 'piss and vinegar' .It is only when Superman is broken and in the face of death that the appeal lands.It's realistic people are their truest selves in dire situations not just with posturing and pontification.

Look at it another way assuming Bruce even has the time of day to give KAL... After carnage following Superman wherever he went,he shows up and is like:

'My mother needs help Luthor is going to kill her unless I kill you'

You really think Bruce will be like 'oh darn why didn't you say so?' Like Really...To me honestly his reply would be 'So you bring a war here thousands die for no reason and now you have a reason to kill,to save your mum?'

Be objective here in what world would Batman help superman with his own prejudice unresolved? It is ridiculous by detractors of the movie to claim they could talk it out.That would be the worst scripting if they followed that idea.

As I say over and over,follow in film script with an open mind and you'll realise you don't give credit where it is due.Just be honest with yourself

It's rich that you're asking someone to be objective when you are far from objective yourself. Nobody is saying that Batman would automatically listen, just that Clark could have tried way harder. That is what he came there to do after all, why isn't he doing it? It would be better scripting if he tried and failed, than not trying at all and being surprised that Batman is responding with more violence. And makes him come across as an idiot who really isn't that concerned about his mother if his petty grudge match with Batman is taking priority. Characters acting like idiots to get the plot moving, defying all logic, is poor scripting.

This is a movie that got a lot of razzie nominations and even had one of its own actors (Jeremy Irons) say it deserved to be trashed. Lol, someone needs to be more honest with themselves and isn't the detractors.

[Castle]

Are you serious? It's NOT different because it's literally what 3 different posters have said. Why aren't you even reading what you're arguing against?

So tony's behaviour was worse than batman huh?

To go further, batman knew who wonder woman was, he could have blackmailed her to help him take down Superman. he didnt. what was tony doing trying to blackmail a kid like Spiderman to join a fight in civil war?

So if you like civil war, you can not-not like dawn of justice that had more sound reasons for people to fight.

Wow 'The Bat is dead,bury it' is SOO different from 'Bury the Bat' don't worry I don't need to watch the movie to respond to you.Good on you that you know the lines.That gives me hope you do understand what I say



Even if he did tell him all you said hovering in the air let us say,on the back of all I've told you do you believe Batman would believe him,hovering there at that point? Bruce still sees him as an alien,whatever Superman would say would not land.Batman was filled with 'piss and vinegar' .It is only when Superman is broken and in the face of death that the appeal lands.It's realistic people are their truest selves in dire situations not just with posturing and pontification.

Look at it another way assuming Bruce even has the time of day to give KAL... After carnage following Superman wherever he went,he shows up and is like:

'My mother needs help Luthor is going to kill her unless I kill you'

You really think Bruce will be like 'oh darn why didn't you say so?' Like Really...To me honestly his reply would be 'So you bring a war here thousands die for no reason and now you have a reason to kill,to save your mum?'

Be objective here in what world would Batman help superman with his own prejudice unresolved? It is ridiculous by detractors of the movie to claim they could talk it out.That would be the worst scripting if they followed that idea.

As I say over and over,follow in film script with an open mind and you'll realise you don't give credit where it is due.Just be honest with yourself

I think we should just post the video and dialogue

SUPERMAN: Bruce. Please. I was wrong. You have to listen to me. Lex wants us to--.

A shield activates, but Superman rips a manhole cover in half and hurls them at the shield.

SUPERMAN: You don't understand. There's no time!

BATMAN: I understand.

Superman pushes Batman back. Turrets fires. Superman flies up and destroys them with his heat vision.

SUPERMAN: Stay down! If I wanted it, you'd be dead already.

Batman throws a smoke bomb, but Superman dashes through it, wonders where Batman is, grabs a second bomb, but it fires out green smoke causing him to choke.

BATMAN: Breathe it in. That's fear. You're not brave. Men are brave.

Batman and Superman began fighting which ended with Batman dragging Superman after another exposure to the green smoke.

BATMAN: I bet your parents taught you that you mean something. That you're here for a reason. My parents taught me a different lesson, dying in the gutter for no reason at all.

When Superman said there was no time...that was the defector but even then Superman would not have killed Batman even if he had the power.

[80sbaby]

Yes, Tony was worse than Batman. Nobody has claimed otherwise so not sure why you think you're making a point?

[Rev9]

He also just passive aggressively flies away after Batman has left destruction and dead men in his wake after a conflict he started. That does not sound like a person who cares.

This is ALSO in the film. How about that?




Him saying stay down is yet more posturing and wasted dialogue when he can actually say what he needs to say. Batman was down for a few moments and catching his breath, and not just during one instance during that fight, before Kryptonite came into the equation.
Superman is a moron.

Yes I've read comics. Superman usually talks more in those instances when he wants to defuse a fight. Yes I've seen those other things, none of which matter when discussing this film. How do you know I'm even a fan of those (I'm not)? You bringing them up indicates a lack of confidence in the moving you're defending if you feel the need to bring in unrelated stuff to prop it up.




It's rich that you're asking someone to be objective when you are far from objective yourself. Nobody is saying that Batman would automatically listen, just that Clark could have tried way harder. That is what he came there to do after all, why isn't he doing it? It would be better scripting if he tried and failed, than not trying at all and being surprised that Batman is responding with more violence. And makes him come across as an idiot who really isn't that concerned about his mother if his petty grudge match with Batman is taking priority. Characters acting like idiots to get the plot moving, defying all logic, is poor scripting.

This is a movie that got a lot of razzie nominations and even had one of its own actors (Jeremy Irons) say it deserved to be trashed. Lol, someone needs to be more honest with themselves and isn't the detractors.

My dear so ok you're saying that it would be better for Superman to lay his cards out on the table because he is trying..ok I'll let that slide but go on now that all cards are on the table we go back to the Zod scenario, Batman still wants Superman down and now Superman has nothing to make Batman see Lex's ruse for what it is-he only has one option 1 .Die himself or 2 Kill the Batman .So in fact instead of an alliance we have one kill the other.Do you you sit back and contemplate how your 'idea' affects the story in film? Basing on this I don't think so...

[80sbaby]

My dear so ok you're saying that it would be better for Superman to lay his cards out on the table because he is trying..ok I'll let that slide but go on now that all cards are on the table we go back to the Zod scenario, Batman still wants Superman down and now Superman has nothing to make Batman see the rise for what it is so he only has one option 1 .Die himself or 2 Kill the Batman .So in fact instead of an alliance we have one kill the other.Do you you sit back and contemplate how your 'idea' affects the story in film? Basing on this I don't think so...

But if the only reason Batman decides not to kill Clark is due to finding out Superman has a mom, why would he still want to kill him after Clark tells him?

[Castle]

Yes, Tony was worse than Batman. Nobody has claimed otherwise so not sure why you think you're making a point?

tony is worse because civil war has a worse script to snyder's dawn of justice, you cant be pro civil war and anti dawn of justice.it hurts your credibility to me.

But if the only reason Batman decides not to kill Clark is due to finding out Superman has a mom, why would he still want to kill him after Clark tells him?

If only Batman had listened to superman before he tried to fight him but please note that, films require something called character development. batman at the point was so filled with rage but its good the fight happened and he nearly killed superman, until superman told batman of ''martha''. that was what made batman realise he was been a jerk.

[80sbaby]

If only Batman had listened to superman before he tried to fight him but please note that, films require something called character development.

Lol ok...so what development happened during the fight that made Bruce decide to listen and what caused it to occur, exactly? Because earlier you all were arguing that it was simply realizing that Clark has a mom. Now you're saying that finding out that information earlier wouldn't matter.

[SiegePerilous02]

I think we should just post the video and dialogue




When Superman said there was no time...that was the defector but even then Superman would not have killed Batman even if he had the power.

Actually by watching the video, we have an instance from 1:29-1:45 where Batman is down and there is a lull in the fighting where Superman is wasting time without saying anything. He just walks over silently.

This isn't really helping your case. Are you watching the scene?

My dear so ok you're saying that it would be better for Superman to lay his cards out on the table because he is trying..ok I'll let that slide but go on now that all cards are on the table we go back to the Zod scenario, Batman still wants Superman down and now Superman has nothing to make Batman see Lex's ruse for what it is-he only has one option 1 .Die himself or 2 Kill the Batman .So in fact instead of an alliance we have one kill the other.Do you you sit back and contemplate how your 'idea' affects the story in film? Basing on this I don't think so...

Then that's up to Batman. And by the very script, Clark has no reason to think Bruce is an actual threat to him yet. If we go by internal logic, he has no reason to antagonize someone who is unstable and wants to kill him, his mother's life is on the line and he doesn't have time, but he does it anyway. Because he's an idiot. They both are because the script needs them to be.

If it affected the story of the film, I think Superman's part in it would have been better. It's not a very good film.

Also, the film tells us that if Batman hears that Clark's name is Martha he'll help lol, so if Superman said his mother's name early on there would be no fight. He has no reason really to believe him at the end of the fight anyway.

[Rev9]

But if the only reason Batman decides not to kill Clark is due to finding out Superman has a mom, why would he still want to kill him after Clark tells him?

I can see you're new here, I already posted why just read the earlier posts

[Blind Wedjat]

Bringing up Civil War is a weird flex since Cap actually DID tell Tony exactly what was going on but Tony just didn't care. That's what people are saying SHOULD HAVE happened in BvS.

Bringing up Civil War is the classic deflection tactic Snyder's fans use to make excuses for their beloved film and director's failings and accuse you of having a bias, instead of actually engaging in a discussion like a reasonable person.

[80sbaby]

I can see you're new here, I already posted why just read the earlier posts

Yeah I don't think you have, actually. And I've been following along for awhile.

[Castle]

Lol ok...so what development happened during the fight that made Bruce decide to listen and what caused it to occur, exactly? Because earlier you all were arguing that it was imply realizing that Clark has a mom. Now you're saying that finding out that information earlier wouldn't matter.

What made Bruce listen finally was when Lois said, Martha was his mother. that was the development from bruce seeing superman as a cold hearted alien to a guy who cares about people or something and not just anything, a parent. a parent batman lost.

You know what is so funny? batman in those 2 seconds showed remorse and concern for martha than steve and bucky ever did for tony loosing his parents.

You know what tears people up? when Bruce says, I promise you, Martha won't die tonight, which was again, the PTSDS of Batman loosing his own mother that fateful night , she was shut and not wanting that to happen again to another person's mum, if he could help it.


[QUOTE=Blind Wedjat;5038017]Bringing up Civil War is the classic deflection tactic /QUOTE]

its not a classic deflection its hypocrisy. why are you quick so say what Snyder did was wrong and defend something worse?

Snyder's fans use to make excuses for their beloved film and director's failings and accuse you of having a bias, instead of actually engaging in a discussion like a reasonable person.[

We are not making excuses. we are defending what snyder did and being sound about it.part of being sound is to use other films to show what Snyder did was good or better and it seems to be working.