Zack Snyder's JUSTICE LEAGUE on HBOmax in 2021!

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

except all three are completely different accusations with only Fischer's being specifically regarding what he's like on set. Even at the height of #MeToo, no accusations came forward from any of the actresses he has worked with about any sort of coercion by Whedon to sleep with him, let alone anything worse. The Carpenter thing was rough but they've both admitted that the whole situation was just a total mess. These current accusations are, well, pretty meaningless considering the total lack of detail provided and demonstrably contradicted by how often he is praised by those he works with - the folks over at Firefly especially.

You can’t just no true Scotsman every instance that disproves the stance that he doesn’t have a history of accusations of inappropriate conduct on set.

In every business in this country a boss in a position of authority having a sexual relationship with a subordinate is a massive ethics violation. People get sued and fired over it consensual or not. He was accused of that.

Yes Charisma has said it went both ways and still said Joss made the onset situation untenable. Again he was the boss and the person in control. Charisma has not changed her stance that Joss made that situation difficult on set for her even if she understands his point of view.

And then this.

You have 3 instances of Joss in a position of power dealing with accusations of misconduct on set.

And the fact that it’s not everyone doesn’t change that people experienced issues with Joss. Plenty of actors and actresses had a perfectly fine relationship with Harvey Weinstein despite how he dealt with many other people. Other people praising him doesn’t mean other people are lying

[Steel Inquisitor]

When did Snyder get brought in to complete an unfinished movie and spend the entire time trashing it?

My response was about directors having ego's and Snyder's got a big one. He's been freaking about critics hating his DCEU movies since Man of Steel.

[skyvolt2000]

10 characters.

That sounds like someone jealous Marvel could take second tier and trash and make hit movies with them.

That sounds like a gatekeeper who would fight to the end that Black Panther, Cap Marvel, Static, Thor, Moon Girl, Miles Morales, Blade, Swamp Thing, Vixen, Legends of Tomorrow, Ghost Rider and others had no business getting movies or tv shows because guys like him don't think they aren't iconic.

[The True Detective]

That sounds like someone jealous Marvel could take second tier and trash and make hit movies with them.

That sounds like a gatekeeper who would fight to the end that Black Panther, Cap Marvel, Static, Thor, Moon Girl, Miles Morales, Blade, Swamp Thing, Vixen, Legends of Tomorrow, Ghost Rider and others had no business getting movies or tv shows because guys like him don't think they aren't iconic.

Let's just ignore the fact that Marvel lost the film rights to Spider-Man, the X-Men and Fantastic Four and thus had to use their 2nd tier characters. "Guys like him don't think they are iconic" umm most of the characters you named are not iconic at all, popular and iconic aren't the same thing. Black Panther and Thor are the only one's that are.

[Alan2099]

"Guys like him don't think they are iconic" umm most of the characters you named are not iconic at all, popular and iconic aren't the same thing. Black Panther and Thor are the only one's that are.

That wasn't the argument. Nobody was saying they were iconic.

Snyder's comments were suggesting that character were aren't iconic don't deserve movies.

[80sbaby]

Let's just ignore the fact that Marvel lost the film rights to Spider-Man, the X-Men and Fantastic Four and thus had to use their 2nd tier characters. "Guys like him don't think they are iconic" umm most of the characters you named are not iconic at all, popular and iconic aren't the same thing. Black Panther and Thor are the only one's that are.

How long ago were the rights list and when did Snyder make those comments?

[Username taken]

That wasn't the argument. Nobody was saying they were iconic.

Snyder's comments were suggesting that character were aren't iconic don't deserve movies.

Exactly.

Snyder’s comments were basically that these aren’t “a-list characters but are getting movies while real a-listers like Superman didn’t at the time”. He was basically targeting the MCU at that time because they turned a bunch of second level characters into blockbuster movies.

That being said, I actually understand where Snyder was coming from with those comments. He’s a bit of “dude bro” and he definitely talks like one but really a Superman movie should have been made long before MOS.

The problem is that Snyder’s “dude-broness” makes him say a lot of dumb things like ridiculing the success of the MCU. If anything, there’s something to be learnt about how a studio took relatively unknown characters and built a universe that most people love and have grown connected too. Based on Snyder’s logic we’d only be seeing Superman, Batman and Spider-man movies forever...

[Username taken]

Let's just ignore the fact that Marvel lost the film rights to Spider-Man, the X-Men and Fantastic Four and thus had to use their 2nd tier characters. "Guys like him don't think they are iconic" umm most of the characters you named are not iconic at all, popular and iconic aren't the same thing. Black Panther and Thor are the only one's that are.

Snyder’s comments have no connection to the rights issue. He made reference to Fantastic Four and other Marvel movies made by Sony and Colombia.

Not to mention he made them years after they’d been resolved.

[Castle]

My response was about directors having ego's and Snyder's got a big one. He's been freaking about critics hating his DCEU movies since Man of Steel.

Snyder does not have that big of an ego. I doubt he ''hated'' critics hating on his movies. He found their criticism superficial and inconsistent with other films they praised. He did say Avengers and Star Wars 7 had more destruction and chaos than his movies. Additionally critics hating on his movies because their were darker and a lot more adult oriented with the story was a stupid thing for critics to hate on and he has proven right in the long run. Whedon failed to turns things around.

[Castle]

Let's just ignore the fact that Marvel lost the film rights to Spider-Man, the X-Men and Fantastic Four and thus had to use their 2nd tier characters. "Guys like him don't think they are iconic" umm most of the characters you named are not iconic at all, popular and iconic aren't the same thing. Black Panther and Thor are the only one's that are.

Neither Black Panther and Thor were iconic. The only character in the MCU that was Iconic is Spiderman who became relegated and his status suffered when he became part of the MCU. It was the best move for Sony to make with putting out Spidervese.

That wasn't the argument. Nobody was saying they were iconic.

Snyder's comments were suggesting that character were aren't iconic don't deserve movies.

Some MCU fans here are reading Snyder all wrong, what he was saying was Superman deserves movies if Thor and MCU characters were getting movies since Superman is such an iconic figure. that is not a diss, Snyder's plan was to elevate Superman above movies like black panther and thor that would be seen as plain . safe and generic. This is what some critics could not tolerate since critics seems to be obsessed with DC been exactly like the MCU, they hired the now disgraced Whedon to make that happen. Snyder was clearly not having it. He called out Whedon from the start.

[Steel Inquisitor]

Snyder does not have that big of an ego. I doubt he ''hated'' critics hating on his movies. He found their criticism superficial and inconsistent with other films they praised. He did say Avengers and Star Wars 7 had more destruction and chaos than his movies. Additionally critics hating on his movies because their were darker and a lot more adult oriented with the story was a stupid thing for critics to hate on and he has proven right in the long run. Whedon failed to turns things around.

His decisions with B vs S are effectively giving the middle finger to people who didn't like Man of Steel, and he takes anything bad about those films personally. Of course he did, that's why he's egoistical. His other films weren't all praised, the only film he's made that was well liked by everyone was the Dawn of the Dead movie, Watchmen was great but mixed and numerous Watchmen fans think he missed the message Alan Moore was sending, Sucker Punch was very controversial and heavily panned I don't know what happened to his owl movie. Got any quotes of what he said about this movies because that's very surface level of what separates their movies from his super-hero movies. For example, the villains blew up planets. His "vision" of super-hero films in the DCEU has been debunked heavily not only the MCU but the DCEU itself. Darker movies can be made with super-hero films, that wasn't the problem it was him doing that to Superman as if he's a Batman clone that's the problem and nobody had any issues with Nolan's Batman being dark, but they were dark and mature which suited the character not edgy like what Snyder does. The only thing Snyder proved was that he's able to make his Snyder Cut into reality. Whedon has nothing to prove, and Justice League was going to be a train wreck - whoever fulled with Snyder was irrelevant.

[Castle]

His decisions with B vs S are effectively giving the middle finger to people who didn't like Man of Steel, and he takes anything bad about those films personally. Of course he did, that's why he's egoistical. His other films weren't all praised, the only film he's made that was well liked by everyone was the Dawn of the Dead movie, Watchmen was great but mixed and numerous Watchmen fans think he missed the message Alan Moore was sending, Sucker Punch was very controversial and heavily panned I don't know what happened to his owl movie. Got any quotes of what he said about this movies because that's very surface level of what separates their movies from his super-hero movies. For example, the villains blew up planets. His "vision" of super-hero films in the DCEU has been debunked heavily not only the MCU but the DCEU itself. Darker movies can be made with super-hero films, that wasn't the problem it was him doing that to Superman as if he's a Batman clone that's the problem and nobody had any issues with Nolan's Batman being dark, but they were dark and mature which suited the character not edgy like what Snyder does. The only thing Snyder proved was that he's able to make his Snyder Cut into reality. Whedon has nothing to prove, and Justice League was going to be a train wreck - whoever fulled with Snyder was irrelevant.

Looking ahead now before the Justice League Cut release, how many people actually didn't like Man of Steel? From what I have seen here on this forum, 99% of them are people who like MCU movies. that is the twist. Snyder was not making Man of Steel for the likes of those. You can try and give Snyder a hard time for this but Nolan also said the same thing. This is where critics dropped the ball. They should never has judged man of steel with MCU movies.

Darker comic movies have been around as far back as I can think of as Blade or the Crow in the 90s, but remember back then, there was not a machine like the MCU pushing an agenda of how to make superhero films. If darker movies have been around, why did critics all of sudden start to scream, Man of Steel was too dark?

The Snyder cut is now a reality because Snyder and the many others that welcomed the new approach to Superman were right along. Also, why are the anti-Snyders/Pro MCU camp so panicked about the Snyder cut?

Its true that Whedon has nothing to prove, He has already proven that none of his superhero movies were good enough for DC and it was a mistake for WB to hire him.

[Steel Inquisitor]

Looking ahead now before the Justice League Cut release, how many people actually didn't like Man of Steel? From what I have seen here on this forum, 99% of them are people who like MCU movies. that is the twist. Snyder was not making Man of Steel for the likes of those. You can try and give Snyder a hard time for this but Nolan also said the same thing. This is where critics dropped the ball. They should never has judged man of steel with MCU movies.

Don't judge anything by this forum, it's a tiny portion of the comic community/readership. Many, many people didn't like Man of Steel but that's not the biggest obstacle with Snyder - it's B vs S. Snyder not making films for everyone is precisely why he's reduced to the Snyder Cut rather than continuing to make theatrical films for the DCEU. They didn't, they judged him by the characters he was adapting. There are millions of people who are fans of both the Marvel and DC universes, I'm one of them. When I say critics it's not only the professionals, it's anyone who saw the movies and didn't like it. Profesional critics won't stop the public seeing them when they're popular, see Michael bay's Transformers. Absolute garbage, yet the audiences flocked to them by the millions.

Darker comic movies have been around as far back as I can think of as Blade or the Crow in the 90s, but remember back them, there was not a machine like the MCU pushing an agenda of how to make superhero films. If darker movies have been around, why did critics all of sudden start to scream, Man of Steel was too dark?

Context. Those films were not only supposed to be dark they were praised for their craft. Snyder's films aren't in the same league as those movies. The MCU isn't pushing an "agenda," they're just the industry trend setters. "Dark" movies were around during the MCU, like Dark Knight Rises, that was in 2012.

I explained this to you in my last post.

Darker movies can be made with super-hero films, that wasn't the problem it was him doing that to Superman as if he's a Batman clone

Superman's not Judge Dredd.

The Snyder cut is now a reality because Snyder and the many others that welcomed the new approach to Superman were right along. Also, why are the anti-Snyders/Pro MCU camp so panicked about the Snyder cut?

Why do you assume we're panicked? The only reason I was upset about Snyder directing things was because I didn't like what he did with characters I'm a fan of. Nobody has anything to fear from the Snyder Cut.

Its true that Whedon has nothing to prove, He has already proven that none of his superhero movies were good enough for DC and it was a mistake for WB to hire him.

The reason DC bought him over was because of his Marvel work. He changed the game for super-hero movies, Snyder was rejected.

[Castle]

Don't judge anything by this forum, it's a tiny portion of the comic community/readership. Many, many people didn't like Man of Steel but that's not the biggest obstacle with Snyder - it's B vs S. Snyder not making films for everyone is precisely why he's reduced to the Snyder Cut rather than continuing to make theatrical films for the DCEU. .

Everywhere else there is appreciation for Man of Steel and the numbers are growing.

They didn't, they judged him by the characters he was adapting. Profesional critics won't stop the public seeing them when they're popular, see Michael bay's

Professional critics? who are they?

There are millions of people who are fans of both the Marvel and DC universes, I'm one of them. When I say critics it's not only the professionals, it's anyone who saw the movies and didn't like it.

I don't get that from you across. Also isn't marvel divided because the outcome of their movies were made by different studios with different results? unlike DC that seems more united. Snyder once said he was open to making a Wolverine/marvel movie , As a person who sometimes see myself as a marvel and dc fan, Man of Steel would be an almost perfect X-Men film unlike Joss Whedon's Avengers/Justice league movies.

Context. Those films were not only supposed to be dark they were praised for their craft.
I explained this to you in my last post.

In the context, Man of Steel was meant to be dark.

Snyder's films aren't in the same league as those movies. The MCU isn't pushing an "agenda," they're just the industry trend setters. "Dark" movies were around during the MCU, like Dark Knight Rises, that was in 2012.

Man of Steel is in the same league as those movies. You said MCU isn't pushing an agenda but they were. it was MCU that started the light hearted movies that Snyder said he was not doing from the start, maybe ''professional critics'' should have respected his decision.

Superman's not Judge Dredd.

Superman has many dark stories and dark moments. if you are a fan of DC as you say, you would know this by default. Since the death of superman stories in the 90s. nothing has been the same with superman.

Why do you assume we're panicked? The only reason I was upset about Snyder directing things was because I didn't like what he did with characters I'm a fan of. Nobody has anything to fear from the Snyder Cut.

I think many are panicked because Snyder is going to outdo anything Whedon ever did. That is something to fear.

The reason DC bought him over was because of his Marvel work. He changed the game for super-hero movies, Snyder was rejected.

I have to take my time to inject a small smile, there are so many things from a DC point that is flawed. I doubt anyone who likes both marvel and dc can see this as 100% face value.

Whedon did not change the game for superhero movies. His Avengers movies was only made a big deal for the 2nd tier superheros and getting them to crossover. if you grew up as a neutral comic fan loving Batman, Superman or the marvel characters that had their rights sold off, Avengers is a pretty meaningless movie to you in the long haul, even among older marvel fans from the 90s and earlys 2000s, Joss Whedon's Avengers film is a joke to the stand alone Marvel films made before Avengers. Also Whedon's Avengers movies have the weakest superhero movie legacy. The money might be good but the artistry isn't.

If Snyder was rejected why would WB now release the cut and spend 30+ million on it and give it an HBO themed production? That is not a rejection. Far from it. Whedon's Justice League is what was rejected. The release the cut movement has been around since late 2016.

[Agent Z]

His decisions with B vs S are effectively giving the middle finger to people who didn't like Man of Steel,

I know this is a difficult thing for people who hate Snyder to grasp but not everything he does is a personal attack on you. He made a movie you didn't like. You're free to hate it but treating it like a personal insult is the height of comedy. There are super villains who hold less petty grudges than this.