Zack Snyder's JUSTICE LEAGUE on HBOmax in 2021!

[Amadeus Arkham]

Zack Snyder Calls Out The 'Fakers' Who Hated On His Justice League

After he, alongside his wife Deborah and his co-star Henry Cavill, announced that the Snyder Cut was coming, Snyder spoke with me for the Release the Snyder Cut book. Be discussed a wide range of topics, all of which end up in the book, but when we got around to the idea of his fanbase being labeled as “toxic,” or the release of his cut being a win for toxic fandom, Snyder finally opened up and told me:

"I just think that’s sour grapes. There’s really no other way to say it. We know the people who were the architects of that narrative, and it’s pretty obvious what their agenda is. Those are people that I’ve been held back from confronting, by wiser people in the room. Because I’d love to get at some of these characters. Some direct conversation would be nice. Just to say, one, you don’t know **** about what you’re talking about. And we can break down everything they’ve ever [said]. I can make a list. There’s a few of these guys where I could just get a list of everything they’ve ever said, that they thought was right, and [I could tell them] every single thing they’ve said is wrong."

You could hear Zack Snyder’s exasperation as he recounted having to sit back and absorb false information being spread by people outside of his circle. Some might argue that this comes with the territory. When you make films, you put them out into the world to be judged, and there’s a healthy cottage industry of entertainment pundits who critique, opine and bloviate about anything, with Snyder and his DC movies being a popular topic.

But as Zack Snyder continued, he asked legitimate questions about the ones whose information had been proven false time and again, as he wondered:

"And so, in what world do you have any credibility anywhere, to any- one? I would love the opportunity to just say to the world, and to fandom in general, who these fakers are and what should be done to them, or with them. It’s just a bunch of BS."

[Noodle]

Does MPAA rating really matter on a streaming service? I mean, it's not like you're being carded like if you bought a movie ticket or the bluray.

Does HBO Max have parental locks? That's about the only way I see it having any kind of impact.

[Castle]

Zack Snyder Calls Out The 'Fakers' Who Hated On His Justice League

Well, Snyder said what i have been saying all along. I am glad he even talks frankly about the bad spin that his fans are toxic, simply because they rejected what Joss whedon did, we see it here on this forums. some have called his fans a cult. it's all sour grapes indeed and we know why there are sour grapes.

[Midvillian1322]

Lol this sucks cause I like Zach Snyder. The only films of his I didn't like were BvS and Sucker Punch. I atleast liked or even loved a couple of his films. But bruh has the emotional maturity of a child. Dude talking about he can make lists and calling people haters and sour grapes. He's shown himself multiple times to be petty and completely refuses to call out the toxic side of his fandom. Him saying the "Haters" are sour grapes is like the kettle calling the pot black. His vision was rejected by critics,audiences, and his studio. I'm happy for the people who wanted the Snyder cut, because why not. Let him finish a film he started. But it really only happened because At&T wanted to buy some attention for HBO max. Hamada came out and called it a story telling dead end. Why? That seems like shooting yourself in your foot right before the release. But they thought it was more important people know this isn't leading anywhere.

[Powerboy]

Lol this sucks cause I like Zach Snyder. The only films of his I didn't like were BvS and Sucker Punch. I atleast liked or even loved a couple of his films. But bruh has the emotional maturity of a child. Dude talking about he can make lists and calling people haters and sour grapes. He's shown himself multiple times to be petty and completely refuses to call out the toxic side of his fandom. Him saying the "Haters" are sour grapes is like the kettle calling the pot black. His vision was rejected by critics,audiences, and his studio. I'm happy for the people who wanted the Snyder cut, because why not. Let him finish a film he started. But it really only happened because At&T wanted to buy some attention for HBO max. Hamada came out and called it a story telling dead end. Why? That seems like shooting yourself in your foot right before the release. But they thought it was more important people know this isn't leading anywhere.

I liked MoS too, not so much B v S.

I'm sure that Snyder can defend MoS and B v S artistically and technically to his own satisfaction and that of quite a few others and not to about an equal or greater number of others. But, in the end, even if it was the greatest art ever done in a superhero movie, it doesn't matter because it's not just "haters". Half the audience hated it. The critics hated it. The studio swerved away from it with no plans currently for another Superman movie and only plans for out of shared universe Batman movies. They panicked at the negative reaction to "Justice League" and made it even worse or certainly no better.

As you said, it's way more than just some youtube haters.

I would even say it's worse than the reaction to Star Wars 7, 8 and 9 because that does tend to be mostly diehard fans and people who hate any social message while MoS and especially B v S gets far, far more general audience negative reaction that these aren't Superman or Batman or at least what they want and expect from them.

[lowfyr]

Well, Snyder said what i have been saying all along. I am glad he even talks frankly about the bad spin that his fans are toxic, simply because they rejected what Joss whedon did, we see it here on this forums. some have called his fans a cult. it's all sour grapes indeed and we know why there are sour grapes.

You calling someone "sour grapes" is really ironic. But thanks for the laugh.

[Jack The Tripper]

Zack Snyder Calls Out The 'Fakers' Who Hated On His Justice League

He really is that far up his own back side lmao. Just accept criticism and move on, either take note of it or don't. The cult's one charitable endeavour (that, to me, felt more like a way of garnering favour with Snyder due to his unfortunate emotional connection with the cause) doesnt immediately cancel out the harrassment and toxicity caused by the fandom. Journalists and critics disn't deserve the vitriolic messages from the cult and that's all there is to it. All he has to do is call out that part, but he doesn't, because he's egotistical and he knows it's his core fan base. If he upsets them and they don't watch it, he wont feel vindicated.

My favourite thing is that this guy wouldn't even have such a hard-core fan base if BvS didn't exist. He'll always be known for just making a bad movie that garnered it's own miserable fandom. It's hilarious.

Let me note, I know there are a lot of decent people who are also fans of his DC stuff, so no hate to ya if you're out there. But if you're deluded enough to think that critics and audience members were "tricked" or "bribed" into not liking his movies (for any reason) thenyou're deluded and you need to stay off the internet for a while.

[WebLurker]

Zack Snyder Calls Out The 'Fakers' Who Hated On His Justice League

Wow, and I thought his meltdown where he insisted that his movies were for adults was unhinged.

[Castle]

He really is that far up his own back side lmao. Just accept criticism and move on, either take note of it or don't. The cult's one charitable endeavour (that, to me, felt more like a way of garnering favour with Snyder due to his unfortunate emotional connection with the cause) doesnt immediately cancel out the harrassment and toxicity caused by the fandom. Journalists and critics disn't deserve the vitriolic messages from the cult and that's all there is to it.

Snyder is the type of guy that will accept criticisms but what is the point of accepting one when some of the criticisms is false at best.

Look at the earlier criticisms of man of steel, it does not hold up today. wonder woman 1984 may have done man of steel a big favour that will make comic books fans appreciate man of steel more an authentic comic book film more than they already do.

[Jack The Tripper]

Snyder is the type of guy that will accept criticisms but what is the point of accepting one when some of the criticisms is false at best.

Look at the earlier criticisms of man of steel, it does not hold up today. wonder woman 1984 may have done man of steel a big favour that will make comic books fans appreciate man of steel more an authentic comic book film more than they already do.

Has he accepted criticism though? Regarding these movies he just seems to double down on the problems, saying fans are living in a f**king dream world etc. What is a "false" criticism in your mind?

The criticisms of MoS absolutely do stand up today. The reason it seems like it's received better is because BvS is seen as worse. MoS was, at best, average. It's fine. But BvS was worse in every way. Comic book fans appreciated MoS after BvS came out, but not in the way you seem to think. More like "Woah, it could have been even worse". There really is so much more potential for Superman in film, but I dont think Snyder ever tapped into it. I hope one day they get a director who can do something great with the character.

[Castle]

Has he accepted criticism though? Regarding these movies he just seems to double down on the problems, saying fans are living in a f**king dream world etc. What is a "false" criticism in your mind?

.

puff piece criticism that the movie was too dark, that is not superman, the movie needed plenty of humor or the movie was too emo or the movie too itself too seriously, the movie was not like a marvel film, superman should never have killed zod.

The criticisms of MoS absolutely do stand up today. The reason it seems like it's received better is because BvS is seen as worse. MoS was, at best, average. It's fine. But BvS was worse in every way. Comic book fans appreciated MoS after BvS came out, but not in the way you seem to think. More like "Woah, it could have been even worse". There really is so much more potential for Superman in film, but I dont think Snyder ever tapped into it. I hope one day they get a director who can do something great with the character

MOS criticisms don't stand today, comic movies and their cartoonish comedy light hearted driven one track- overproduced style has imploded on itself. the latest victim is wonder woman 1984, MOS makes you appreciate that it was trying to be different from that long before the implosions.

BvS had problems but those problems were never big enough that it resulted into us getting justice league 2016.

[Alan2099]

Has he accepted criticism though? Regarding these movies he just seems to double down on the problems, saying fans are living in a f**king dream world etc. What is a "false" criticism in your mind?

The criticisms of MoS absolutely do stand up today. The reason it seems like it's received better is because BvS is seen as worse. MoS was, at best, average. It's fine. But BvS was worse in every way. Comic book fans appreciated MoS after BvS came out, but not in the way you seem to think. More like "Woah, it could have been even worse". There really is so much more potential for Superman in film, but I dont think Snyder ever tapped into it. I hope one day they get a director who can do something great with the character.

It seems every DC movie he makes is worse than the one before, and anytime anyone criticizes him, he just doubles down on his mistakes the next time.

[Jack The Tripper]

puff piece criticism that the movie was too dark, that is not superman, the movie needed plenty of humor or the movie was too emo or the movie too itself too seriously, the movie was not like a marvel film, superman should never have killed zod.


MOS criticisms don't stand today, comic movies and their cartoonish comedy light hearted driven one track- overproduced style has imploded on itself. the latest victim is wonder woman 1984, MOS makes you appreciate that it was trying to be different from that long before the implosions.

BvS had problems but those problems were never big enough that it resulted into us getting justice league 2016.

Those are fine criticisms. If you can't make an audience believe in this world, you have failed as the director. Also, to say it was a new approach to superhero films is bogus. Since X-men (or Blade depending on who you ask), superhero movies were constantly going down the dark route. By 2013, it was a tired formula. MCU being light was a response to those dark films in itself. So, really, it's a moot point. I don't think anyone needed plenty of humour, they just needed something that wasn't bleak at occasional points in the movie to make it bearable. Also, no one said it was bad because it wasn't like the MCU, they said it was bad in comparison to the MCU - There's a huge difference.

"Imploding" is a huge exaggeration. As with all genres/phases in culture, the popularity of these films will of course diminish. However, it wasn't only the tone of WW84 that led to it's problems. It was overall very messy. Not to mention it was the only film of its kind to be released in a year due to the pandemic, so it is not great evidence. Once films of such magnitude can be released regularly again, we will not be able to gauge where they stand. Again, MoS was different to MCU, but not to the Spider-man and X-Men films that were being made along side it. Even TDKR came out only a year prior. It just wasn't a great film. The MCU's popularity will inevitably diminish, but that's natural. It was the same with dark superhero movies in the early 2000's.

The problems with BvS are what led to JL being so polarizing though? Without those problems, WB would never have been so worried that they got Whedon in to try and save the film. Without Snyder's BvS, we ironically would have never had the Snyder Cut fiasco. It's all very weird. Snyder's JL could very well be a masterpiece, but most signs point in the opposite direction in my opinion. I don't think he has the ability to make anything deeper than shallow. I'm excited for his Army of the Dead movie for that reason - a straight forward zombie action movie should be ideal for him.

[Jack The Tripper]

It seems every DC movie he makes is worse than the one before, and anytime anyone criticizes him, he just doubles down on his mistakes the next time.

Exactly. It doesn't surprise me that he went to college with Michael Bay. They both seem to have unearned egos.

[SiegePerilous02]

puff piece criticism that the movie was too dark, that is not superman, the movie needed plenty of humor or the movie was too emo or the movie too itself too seriously, the movie was not like a marvel film, superman should never have killed zod.

A lot of those weren't unreasonable criticisms. The criticism that Superman never kills and shouldn't kill Zod isn't accurate; he's killed Zod at least twice before that movie came out, and in the context of the scene his action was the right one. But it's still a very questionable idea to put him in that position right out of the gate before audiences can get properly invested in him. The pacing is also terrible, it's a heavy scene to drop on an audience, and then shift gears to not mentioning it the rest of the film while we get the funny scene with Swanick, "I think he's hot lol," and smiling with his mom and Lois. It's tonal whiplash, but a lot of us (myself included) were more than willing to give it a chance at the time to see how the shaky foundations would develop. Him developing a "no kill rule" from this experience and gaining more competence in his power would have been unconventional way of doing things, but it had potential. BvS made him more a plank of wood than the first film; his scenes in the Ultimate cut helped, but not by much. The fallout of Zod's death had little bearing on his conflict with Batman, then he kills Doomsday/Zod clone again at the end, and will likely help Wonder Woman kill Steppenwolf so what the **** is the point?

Expectations that Superman be fun and not in an overly dark movie is not an unreasonable one to have, especially not a big blockbuster that they need to launch a franchise and were spending a stupid amount of money on. You need to appeal to as wide an audience as possible to make it successful, and he made a niche film on a blockbuster budget. Going the unconventional route can win people over if you have the skill to pull it off. See B89's success when the popular perception before that was Adam West, or Nolan's films supplanting Burton's in popularity, etc. Snyder has the intentions, but not the skill to pull it off. Superman is an introvert who is very good at pretending he's an extrovert, they just completely forgot about the latter part in at least these two films and Cavill is not good enough of an actor to pull off bringing depth to a Superman who barely talks. Or more likely, a combo of his skill and lack of direction. People were largely apathetic to this Superman simply because he didn't appear in good movies.