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  1. #1426
    King of Wakanda Midvillian1322's Avatar
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    Still crazy to me they are spending more to finish a movie that didn't do well, then the whole budget of Joker or Deadpool. Read an article that said when adjusted for inflation this is gonna be the 3rd most expensive movie ever. Only behind Age of Ultron and Pirates on stranger tides. If you don't adjust for inflation Justice league gets the cake. They aren't gonna add enough new subscribers based on this to cover the 70mil budget. But over time with the attention the controversy is bringing HBO max. I'm sure they will be able to justify it.

  2. #1427
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    My main issues with the Syder films are that I love Superman and Batman first and foremost. And the films are put on a pedestal by some as "growing the characters up" and any criticisms are deflected as people wanting kiddie-fair. When many view the films as just being epically stupid and pretentious, and just as immature in their own way (if not more so in many ways) as the previous takes they are "improving" upon by being "Serious." or a teenager's view of what "serious" is.
    Yeah, whenever anyone criticizes something by calling it "kiddie" my automatic response is "Oh god, this person hasn't matured past the age of 14, have they?"
    His current approval rating is 34%, meaning 34% of Americans are still morons.

  3. #1428
    Chad Jar Jar Pinsir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    I mean, I say this as someone who loves the characters and a lot of the comics but...that's basically what most of them are gonna be when the Hollywood machine gets ahold of them. Look at how much merchandise they are designed to move. And that's ok, there is a place for that stuff.
    I agree that its great for people to have movies like the MCU. I enjoy genre and tone diversity, I love a film like The Departed and I love a film like Aquaman.

    This belief that RT mainly favors mediocre movies because Joker doesn't have a score in the 90s or whatever reminds of that video of that one guy having an absolute meltdown that Joker didn't win Best Picture but Parasite did.
    I've said for myself that I can't really use the RT metric to pick out films I might like. It overwhelmingly suggests I watch Disney properties, films I overwhelmingly dislike, and meanwhile movies I found very enjoyable such Aquaman scored pretty low on the metric. I get why a film like Joker might bother some people, but a film like Aquaman has just as much broad appeal as any other MCU movie.
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  4. #1429
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    Quote Originally Posted by Castle View Post
    The belief that RT mainly favours mediocre movies sterns from the birth of the MCU franchise that many see as mediocre, less creative done and silly but have good rt scores because their movies are just so fun to watch. this is where it all originates from. most other series had movie where RT showed the good, bad and ugly.
    RT is an aggregate of critical reviewers, its just pointing out which movies are more positively received than others. Let's look at what other DC films were judged by RT: Batman '89 (71%), Batman Returns (80%), Superman: The Movie (94%), Batman begins (84%), The Dark Knight (94%), Dark Knight Rises (87%). "Many see" is not a valid argument, many people think Michael bay's Transformers movies are good, so what? Why should I care what they think? Who are these people? The problem is this isn't about DCEU vs MCU, it's about Snyder's DCEU vs everyone else.

    Youtube proves more than RT since many yotubers do better with movie break downs. lol, I have watched and learned from many youtubers on why some cgi scenes sucks more than I have ever read on RT
    There are no qualifications to put something on You Tube, unlike RT. Some are better than others, and some are industry professionals like Maggie Mae Fish. RT is about movies as a whole, they don't have the same goals of You Tube - which anyone can post anything on it. And while I like good CGI as anyone else, it shows this isn't about a movies quality, trade craft, the stories, camera work or acting performances, it's about special effects. Which aren't even that exciting, Marvel does that in their movies.

    There are You Tubers who go into depth into movies to a higher degree than normal critics do - like Folding Ideas and Lindsay Ellis. Her series on Bay's Transformers was incredible.

    Professional ones? is they were at all professional they would not be clashing with methodical reviews and other guys that know more about the source material. they would also be consistent for 22 years but they are not.
    Critics are bad because they don't like Snyder's DCEU movies isn't a compelling argument. My first paragraph shows the last portion to be false. They have a better grasp on what Superman is than Snyder does.

    Here is another vid calling man of steel as the best superman movie
    Again, proves nothing. Nobody is disputing there are people who like Snyder's DCEU films on You Tube.

    Professional critics drowned n their jobs with man of steel. they have rewritten the rules that all that matters for these type of films are fun and jokes. its telling that this fits the rules Disney made up after they got Marvel. How many people listened to critics after with fun birds of prey and grim joker?
    That sentence makes no sense. No, they haven't. If anything they've been consistent. Except for movies like Nolan's Dark Knight trilogy, Joker got a 63% and BOP got 78% on RT. People have differing expectations on the movies they watch, they don't expect Superman to act like Batman since that goes against how he's been since the 50's. Snyder didn't even get the correct read on Batman or Superman in Dark Knight Returns.

    X-Men has gritty stories. most of their stories are gritty. X-Men Origins was not a light heartened fare. I remember the movie starting with wolverine and sabretooth in wars and ending with wolverine loosing his memory. Man of steel is as good as logan , the people saying man of steel is not beloved is because they wanted superman to play the games of fun and jokes. superman has had dark and gritty stories and that was what snyder wanted to do.
    X-men are action/adventure, they're not gritty that's what Wolverine does in his solos. X-men Origins: Wolverine was a goofy mess.



    It's impossible to take seriously.

    That was the introduction, not the entire movie - the entire movie looked like the above. Movies are judged as a whole, not just the parts we like.

    That's a subjective opinion, not a fact.

    That's a straw man. People want a recognisable Superman who may or may not be an apathetic sociopath. Man of Steel isn't beloved, it's polarising. A gritty movie that's beloved is The Dark Knight. What's so bad about Superman being happy, anyway?

    Peoples problems with Snyder go outside that, if that was all we disliked what he did it'd be less polarising but he couldn't even do that right.

    LOL, I find it funny that the death of superman a pretty gritty and grim graphic novel is the best selling graphic novel of all time but many mcu fans and snyder naysayers are still arguing that superman is all about fun and games
    That was one storyline, among 80 years of stories. By the same people who did things like this in Superman comics.

    This is from "Panic in the Sky":


  5. #1430
    Incredible Member Castle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    RT is an aggregate of critical reviewers, its just pointing out which movies are more positively received than others. Let's look at what other DC films were judged by RT: Batman '89 (71%), Batman Returns (80%), Superman: The Movie (94%), Batman begins (84%), The Dark Knight (94%), Dark Knight Rises (87%). "Many see" is not a valid argument, many people think Michael bay's Transformers movies are good, so what? Why should I care what they think? Who are these people? The problem is this isn't about DCEU vs MCU, it's about Snyder's DCEU vs everyone else.
    Should not be comparing RT reviews of 20- 40 years ago to the reviews now. it's a joke. even critics can separate the most artistic creative deep thinking movies vs the shallow manufactured movies. that is not what RT aggregate is. You can equate TDK and Spiderman 2 but You cannot equate Batman Returns and Iron Man 3. However this is what fans o when they talk about their favourite movies. You are using rt thing for a shallow point.

    man of steel's much lower scores because it was not like the rival films was a bad decision from critics.

    Critics are bad because they don't like Snyder's DCEU movies isn't a compelling argument. My first paragraph shows the last portion to be false. They have a better grasp on what Superman is than Snyder does.
    Critics failed to do their jobs because they should not have tried to review any Snyder movie from the rival franchise.

    X-men are action/adventure, they're not gritty that's what Wolverine does in his solos. X-men Origins: Wolverine was a goofy mess.
    Most xmen stories are gritty, I think you are only saying this because you know disney xmen wont be gritty like many of the past fox movies, so you are trying to retitle xmen. You can use origins all you want. this however is gritty and a much superior movie.




    That's a straw man. People want a recognisable Superman who may or may not be an apathetic sociopath. Man of Steel isn't beloved, it's polarising. A gritty movie that's beloved is The Dark Knight. What's so bad about Superman being happy, anyway?

    Peoples problems with Snyder go outside that, if that was all we disliked what he did it'd be less polarising but he couldn't even do that right.
    LOL. There is too much conflict when a marvel fan keeps telling me man of steel is not beloved, especially when more people agreed with Zack Snyder when he said films like Antman are flavour of the week movies.

    That was one storyline, among 80 years of stories. By the same people who did things like this in Superman comics.

    This is from "Panic in the Sky":
    its was more than one story line, it was more about developing superman story. Snyder was right to tell a superman story in 2013 they way he did.

    I would not want to be a civilian in man of steel, meaning the movie had stakes and made me scared of Zod. I would not mind been in Avengers 2012.
    Last edited by Castle; 10-02-2020 at 04:15 AM.

  6. #1431
    King of Wakanda Midvillian1322's Avatar
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    I've seen people say J'onn is in the Snyder cut. A Google search says that it was to be revealed Swan from MoS was J'onn and a scene of Lois and Martha meeting up was suppose to be J'onn posing as Martha? Wtf why is he Martha Kent? Also why didn't he help with Zod or Doomsday if he was right there this whole time?

  7. #1432
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Castle View Post
    Snyder's movies are above the rival Marvel movies. Explaining part of the trashing because people did not like snyder evolving above fun generic comic films. They wanted to keep Snyder down, its their loss and his gain.
    The debate is if he actually did. Many don't think he did.
    It's not our loss. There is nothing gained.


    Quote Originally Posted by Castle View Post
    Is Henry the actor from Man of Steel? if it is the same dude, then yeah, people want more of that. Usually critics will be the make or break factor but as they have lost their impact, it is now down to DC fans to decide how they feel, There is an upcoming film to do so. The CUT.
    But like I just said, people can like Cavill and see potential in him and not like what he had to work with.
    It's not as if there is some unanimous stance among DC fans on this. And if they recast Superman, the mainstream audience would get over it fairly quickly. They are already ready to move on to Pattinson with Batman, a new Superman wouldn't be any different. He's not untouchable for the time being like Gadot and Mamoa are.


    Quote Originally Posted by Castle View Post
    "If their views don't line up with mine, they must be blind and/or sold out"
    Not sure what quoting me is trying to prove here.



    Quote Originally Posted by Castle View Post
    To avoid repeating myself, this is the answer on the topic of shallow movies vs deep movies.

    https://community.cbr.com/showthread...justice/page27
    I've seen that thread.
    This isn't a very good answer. You're just using the same unconvincing talking points there as you are here.


    Quote Originally Posted by Castle View Post
    Still a social criticism. He is not the first or last to go after strong sexy comic book heroes that were skimpy dresses. He never said Wonder woman had no story.
    So you agree with Cameron's limited view of what a female action hero should be?

  8. #1433
    Wonder Moderator Gaelforce's Avatar
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    Let's get this back on topic, please - JL Snyder Cut, BvS.

    Thanks!
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  9. #1434
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    Quote Originally Posted by Midvillian1322 View Post
    I've seen people say J'onn is in the Snyder cut. A Google search says that it was to be revealed Swan from MoS was J'onn and a scene of Lois and Martha meeting up was suppose to be J'onn posing as Martha? Wtf why is he Martha Kent? Also why didn't he help with Zod or Doomsday if he was right there this whole time?
    I am also curious to know as a huge MM fan myself, but just don't know the explanation, one that is plausible and convenient for this point in time would be to say when he came to earth he had a more martian look and had a wide variety of powers similar to Kryptonians but as he got attached to humans as the only company substitute he had for his extinct race, he embraced their emotional side more and so maintained his telepathy ,shapeshifting and maybe phasing but lost the strength ,speed and flight. Obviously it may be too convenient ,but it would be a way to humanise the character and would not be an absolute dead end. One could then say if he embraced his Martian nature more he could do all he could before but that would be up to him.If I were the writers that's how I would play it.

  10. #1435
    King of Wakanda Midvillian1322's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rev9 View Post
    I am also curious to know as a huge MM fan myself, but just don't know the explanation, one that is plausible and convenient for this point in time would be to say when he came to earth he had a more martian look and had a wide variety of powers similar to Kryptonians but as he got attached to humans as the only company substitute he had for his extinct race, he embraced their emotional side more and so maintained his telepathy ,shapeshifting and maybe phasing but lost the strength ,speed and flight. Obviously it may be too convenient ,but it would be a way to humanise the character and would not be an absolute dead end. One could then say if he embraced his Martian nature more he could do all he could before but that would be up to him.If I were the writers that's how I would play it.
    Yea, I guess they could also play up his pacifist nature. Saying he stayed out of it cause he knew Kal and earths heroes would save the day. And then have Darkseid be the thing that forces him to take a stand. Only issue with that is he took the identify of a military General. That doesnt scream pacifist(Its confirmed General Swan was J'onn ? Or it that a fan theory?). MM has always been one of my favorite DC characters. If Flash Point does a soft reboot, I'd love to see them try Martian Manhunter again. Don't mind the casting though if Swan was really J'onn. Peter Mensah has always been my first choice. Though he getting up there in age now. Honestly you could put make up on him and maybe touch it up with minimal CGI. The shape of his face already looks like J'onn and like the actor whos plays Swan(Forget his name dude needs to play Obama in a biopic though) he has a nice voice that fits MM. But yea watching Spartacus i always wished they woulda casted Mensah as J'onn.
    Last edited by Midvillian1322; 10-09-2020 at 05:44 AM.

  11. #1436
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    Quote Originally Posted by Midvillian1322 View Post
    Yea, I guess they could also play up his pacifist nature. Saying he stayed out of it cause he knew Kal and earths heroes would save the day. And then have Darkseid be the thing that forces him to take a stand. Only issue with that is he took the identify of a military General. That doesnt scream pacifist(Its confirmed General Swan was J'onn ? Or it that a fan theory?). MM has always been one of my favorite DC characters. If Flash Point does a soft reboot, I'd love to see them try Martian Manhunter again. Don't mind the casting though if Swan was really J'onn. Peter Mensah has always been my first choice. Though he getting up there in age now. Honestly you could put make up on him and maybe touch it up with minimal CGI. The shape of his face already looks like J'onn and like the actor whos plays Swan(Forget his name dude needs to play Obama in a biopic though) he has a nice voice that fits MM. But yea watching Spartacus i always wished they woulda casted Mensah as J'onn.
    I totally agree ,even to me Peter Mensah is a no brainer, absolute perfect choice, but he really is up there when it comes to age, but I think he does do martial arts and so maybe is still in top physical shape.Jimmy Jean Lewis is another great choice but maybe a little too short Mensah would be perfect. Harry Lennix is not bad either he looks physically like he could be part of the league, so it's good casting as is, though casting Mensah would be absolutely nailing it

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  13. #1438
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    It’s possible Leto is coming back for a flashback/hallucination scene to the night Joker killed Robin/Dick Grayson. After all, Snyder confirmed we will see something that relates to that incident in his version of Justice League.

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  15. #1440
    Mighty Member Iron_Legion87's Avatar
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    I actually sorta like Jared Leto's Joker. His crazy antics during the filming of Suicide Squad and hearing about all the never before seen footage of him as Joker in the film sounded awesome. I don't blame him, I blame WB or whoever decided to cut the Joker out of that film. I think his portrayal of the character could have been great. Who knows, know that he is in Justice League maybe we can see Leto really let lose with the character. But something tells me that this might just be a cameo or just a few short scenes.

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