Zack Snyder's JUSTICE LEAGUE on HBOmax in 2021!

[SiegePerilous02]

BvS was not panned because it wasn't Marvel enough. Wonder Woman, Aquaman and Shazam weren't exactly like Marvel movies either and they turned a profit and were not panned. Notably, they are all getting solo sequels which Snyder's Superman is not getting. Neither were darker movies like the Nolan Bat films, Joker, Logan or Deadpool and they all did well. it was panned for having a bloated, joyless story, an annoying antagonist and one of the leads being an uncharismatic piece of wood and ill defined/unlikable characters in general, which are all credible reasons to discredit a movie that features well known children's characters that rely on new generations of kids/families to keep them afloat. Even releasing an extended cut wouldn't have helped, as it would only have helped a few plot holes but still have all the problems the theatrical cut had, just an added 30 minutes to an already 2.5 hour slog.

The Marvel movies are mainstream blockbusters and aren't super deep to the point where people are mostly entertained by them and move on. But beyond the fanboys, the general audience doesn't spare much thought to BvS either. They don't dwell on it much either way, it came, it sucked, and they moved on to the next thing. Online discussions by fanboys (in the positive or negative camps) are not indicative of anything. Neither set of films sparks serious film discussions, because they are big budget studio driven IP farms designed to sell toys.

[Menacer]

None of those changed directors mid-movie and caused people to demand a recut.

I was specifically speaking about bvs

Maybe I didnt make that clear enough

[Steel Inquisitor]

I was specifically speaking about bvs

Maybe I didnt make that clear enough

You could make the same argument for Whedon's Justice League, but no-one's doing that because nobody can truly know how that'll turn out so unless it actually happens to B v S what does it prove?

[WebLurker]

There are plenty of films panned that later are seen as brilliant or become popular...And the reverse happens too.

True, and sometimes a movie is well-received at the time and remains well regarded (e.g. Toy Story) and sometimes a movie is considered bad and keeps that reputation (e.g. The Room).

...For whatever reason the media backed pretty much all those braindead generic marvel movies...

A crowd pleaser is a crowd pleaser. Marvel is really good at getting people invested in their characters, though.

Yah bvs isnt high art but its really epic...

Dunno if epic really makes up for otherwise bad filmmaking, if that makes any sense. I mean, the Lord of the Rings movies are epic, but that's not why they've remained classics ever since coming out.

I truely believe in time newer generations will connect with it and like those movies above, will rise up and be seen as a great batman and superman installment...

That may happen, we certainly have seen generally disliked movies get reevaluated (consider how the Star Wars prequels have a more positive online perception now then they used to) and, as noted before, the are the movies that were unpopular at the time, but became known as classics after the fact. I like plenty of stuff that earned its acclaim after the fact and have a soft spot for certain "imperfect" movies -- e.g. Spider-Man 3, Star Trek Beyond, the 2017 Power Rangers reboot, the 2018 Tomb Raider reboot, Alita: Battle Angel, The New Mutants, every "bad" Star Wars movie ever made -- where you can see the flaws or understand why they didn't click with audiences, but, nevertheless have sparks of the potential or did some things really well that more then make up for the flaws and so deserved to be remembered better or to get the intended sequels they were denied or whatever.

All that said, though, I can't really see BvS becoming remembered as some gem that we didn't appreciate at the time. Most such movies, when accessed, can be said to have been legitimately well-made movies and that craftsmanship being what raises their reputation. BvS wasn't panned because it wasn't what people wanted or anything, but because it was arguably a bad movie. It might become some kinda of cult classic among "bad" movies, but I don't think the primary strong points (the casting and a few good set pieces) are enough to elevate it.

[Menacer]

All that said, though, I can't really see BvS becoming remembered as some gem that we didn't appreciate at the time. Most such movies, when accessed, can be said to have been legitimately well-made movies and that craftsmanship being what raises their reputation. BvS wasn't panned because it wasn't what people wanted or anything, but because it was arguably a bad movie. It might become some kinda of cult classic among "bad" movies, but I don't think the primary strong points (the casting and a few good set pieces) are enough to elevate it.

Well your not wrong. Like you make a great argument.... if you dislike bvs... which i didnt

For me BvS was so exciting to watch. I connected with everything... it really only suffered for me personally because of 1 thing

the death of superman arc being slipped in at the end ... this is a huge arc ... id want to see funeral for a friend, reign of supermen, return... the idea of just slipping in a poorly designed orc doomsday just really was bad choice...

But if snyder cut is really amazing I genuinely feel it could reframe man of steel, bvs and obvs JL...

But hey we are all here and in a few months we are gonna see how people respond..


If masses of people flood to watch and like hbo jl... i mean it could really reframe a lot...

And zack may continue with his dc movies... even if only producing.

Which i suggest you take a look at his imdb. He is very connect to these projects...

If jl lands im 99% sure suicide squad will get a new cut..


And whats really crazy about this is with minimal investment wb can sell these movies twice..

Jl was about 650mil global box office. Plus dvd, blu ray, streaming...

Now they invest 70mil.... and they can sell it all over again

Same for suicide sqaud...

Oddly they can double there money for the same project

[Menacer]

You could make the same argument for Whedon's Justice League, but no-one's doing that because nobody can truly know how that'll turn out so unless it actually happens to B v S what does it prove?

Yah my whole argument is on the basis that I like it... and that I think that in time new generations will not be clouded by the biases that surround its release....

Of course I'm just spouting...

[lowfyr]

There are issues with bvs... but marvel released 33 films..
Most were generic garbage. The only real stand outs were a couple captian america movies, guardians of galaxy 1, infinity war..

The rest all had loads of issues.. endgame was no where near as good as infinity war and had loads of problems


For whatever reason the media backed pretty much all those braindead generic marvel movies...

Yah bvs isnt high art but its really epic..
I I truely believe in time newer generations will connect with it and like those movies above, will rise up and be seen as a great batman and superman installment...

Stating your opinion as fact does not make it so. But seeing you use stuff like " braindead generic marvel movies" in the comment and defend BvS as "more epic" without having no real argument about either I would you are not really interested in a discussion.
Reminds me of a certain poster here.

[Alan2099]

You could make the same argument for Whedon's Justice League, but no-one's doing that because nobody can truly know how that'll turn out so unless it actually happens to B v S what does it prove?

I would much rather see a version where Whedon was give completely control to do anything he wanted than the Snyder version.

[Menacer]

Stating your opinion as fact does not make it so. But seeing you use stuff like " braindead generic marvel movies" in the comment and defend BvS as "more epic" without having no real argument about either I would you are not really interested in a discussion.
Reminds me of a certain poster here.

Maybe you should actually read my posts before commenting?

Literally said this "Yah my whole argument is on the basis that I like it... and that I think that in time new generations will not be clouded by the biases that surround its release....

Of course I'm just spouting..."

Just one post above you.

I never claimed fact

Its my opinion

Like I said I'm just spouting/chatting

[Menacer]

I would much rather see a version where Whedon was give completely control to do anything he wanted than the Snyder version.

Avengers was pretty good...

But Age of Ultron was really boring... tho maybe thats more script related...

Infinity amazing. But that wasnt joss... that was joe and Anthony

[SiegePerilous02]

There are far more preferable options than either Whedon or Snyder. Whedon having full control of a project wouldn't be without flaws, but I think overall it would hold together better as at least competent/solid if not great in comparison to Snyder.

But the Russos, Patty Jenkins, James Wan, Taika Waititi or David Sandberg have proven they'd be more reliable to turn out a good Superman or Justice League movie than either of two options we've been stuck with.

[Menacer]

There are far more preferable options than either Whedon or Snyder. Whedon having full control of a project wouldn't be without flaws, but I think overall it would hold together better as at least competent/solid if not great in comparison to Snyder.

But the Russos, Patty Jenkins, James Wan, Taika Waititi or David Sandberg have proven they'd be more reliable to turn out a good Superman or Justice League movie than either of two options we've been stuck with.

I realize im probably the minority here but I struggle hard watching aquaman... particular the heavy underwater cgi trainwreck.... ive tried 3 times to watch it and dont find it compelling... i will keep trying...

As for ww its great 3/4 the way thru and ends with a boring battle...

Personally i thought bvs was totally entertaining until doomsday showed up...

Shazam held it together the whole time. This was a success except shazam made 366 mil..
Bvs made 850mil ish...

I think people have a real bias towards the metrics. Bvs was a success... it was trashed for no great reason..

Aquaman made money but no clear reason why its so much better..
Oh except that its funny and makes fun of itself?

[SiegePerilous02]

I realize im probably the minority here but I struggle hard watching aquaman... particular the heavy underwater cgi trainwreck.... ive tried 3 times to watch it and dont find it compelling... i will keep trying...

As for ww its great 3/4 the way thru and ends with a boring battle...

Personally i thought bvs was totally entertaining until doomsday showed up...

Shazam held it together the whole time. This was a success except shazam made 366 mil..
Bvs made 850mil ish...

I think people have a real bias towards the metrics. Bvs was a success... it was trashed for no great reason..

Aquaman made money but no clear reason why its so much better..
Oh except that its funny and makes fun of itself?

Shazam underperformed but I think it also was considered successful enough relative to its budget that it warranted a sequel, especially as they will be bringing in the Rock as more of a draw. It also performed better critically. As did Wonder Woman, which while the last act is criticized, it's nowhere near as much of a mess as the last act of BvS and it's first 2/3 are still more coherent with a more likeable protagonist.

BvS made money....mostly in its first weekend because it was hyped as a big event featuring the two biggest superheroes of all time. It was always going to do well that weekend, but it had terrible legs due to bad word of mouth. Nobody has really ever provided a convincing reason why the non-Marvel based criticisms (of which there are plenty- plot, acting, dialogue, editing, characterization, effects) don't deserve the criticism they got. Even the UC is only considered marginally better. Aquaman is far from being a cinematic masterpiece, but yes it being more self aware of the fact that its adapting a superhero and was fun entertainment helped it. It's not unreasonable for the general audience to go into a movie featuring Superman and Batman of all characters in it and expect to have fun. Even as a serious movie, it mostly fails because it's a teenager's attempt at serious, not actual depth, as if its ashamed of the characters its adapting and that they are aimed primarily at kids. There is a reason people came away from it liking Wonder Woman the most out of the three, she's the only one who just gets crap done without any pretentious navel gazing and has one moment of any semblance of superhero joy in it (the cocky/invigorated smile while fighting Doomsday).

[GozertheGozarian]

I realize im probably the minority here but I struggle hard watching aquaman... particular the heavy underwater cgi trainwreck.... ive tried 3 times to watch it and dont find it compelling... i will keep trying...

As for ww its great 3/4 the way thru and ends with a boring battle...

Personally i thought bvs was totally entertaining until doomsday showed up...

Shazam held it together the whole time. This was a success except shazam made 366 mil..
Bvs made 850mil ish...

I think people have a real bias towards the metrics. Bvs was a success... it was trashed for no great reason..

Aquaman made money but no clear reason why its so much better..
Oh except that its funny and makes fun of itself?

BvS grossed around 850, net profit was much less.

[Menacer]

BvS grossed around 850, net profit was much less.

No one discusses net profit..
But regardless if you can do basic math...

It made money

Batman V Superman opened in March, globally, on one of the largest screen counts ever. The picture cost a reported $260 million, and turned in a $166 million opening weekend, one of the biggest in movie history.

872.7 million USD - 260 = profit