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  1. #2251
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingaliencracker View Post
    But they didn't quickly change course. BvS was released in March 2016 to poor reviews and mediocre box office. Snyder wasn't removed from JL until over a year later.

    The time to move on from Snyder would have been immediately following BvS. Instead, WB allowed Snyder to film the majority of JL before deciding it was "incomprehensible" and moving on. Once the decision was made not to fire Snyder from JL following BvS, they should have just let him do whatever with JL and moved on from there.
    Agreed with this. He should have been removed immediately after BvS instead of having JL start production. That deep into it, they should have let him finish and let the chips fall where they may.

    All this prolonged embarrassment is their fault. Whedon changing things was never going to make anything better. It would either make things worse or a different kind of bad.

  2. #2252
    Ultimate Member Kirby101's Avatar
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    I still don't understand why Snyder was fired from JL in the first place. I know there was the personal tragedy with his daughter. But after MOS and BvS, didn't WB know what kind of movie they were getting? I have heard they didn't like the rough cuts, but that is standard, not the exception in Hollywood. Studios always hate the rough cuts.
    So they end up with a chimera from two very different directors and wonder why it didn't work.
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  3. #2253

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirby101 View Post
    I still don't understand why Snyder was fired from JL in the first place. I know there was the personal tragedy with his daughter. But after MOS and BvS, didn't WB know what kind of movie they were getting? I have heard they didn't like the rough cuts, but that is standard, not the exception in Hollywood. Studios always hate the rough cuts.
    So they end up with a chimera from two very different directors and wonder why it didn't work.
    So there are conflicting reports about whether he was fired or whether he just walked away prior to post-production. There is probably truth somewhere in the middle in that he submitted a cut to WB that they deemed "incomprehensible" (according to reports), they came back with a bunch of demands that he didn't want to do, and he walked away/they allowed him to walk away in lieu of being fired publicly.

    There were also reports that there were those within WB who wanted him fired immediately following BvS but that the time constraints they were under to get JL finished in addition to Snyder's efficiency in finishing films forced them to decide to at least let him film it and figure out the cut in post-production, which is what they more or less did.

  4. #2254
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirby101 View Post
    I still don't understand why Snyder was fired from JL in the first place. I know there was the personal tragedy with his daughter. But after MOS and BvS, didn't WB know what kind of movie they were getting? I have heard they didn't like the rough cuts, but that is standard, not the exception in Hollywood. Studios always hate the rough cuts.
    So they end up with a chimera from two very different directors and wonder why it didn't work.
    According to him in the recent Vanity Fair article, he tried for about a year afterwards to keep going but basically ran out of steam after awhile.

  5. #2255
    Astonishing Member stargazer01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thezmage View Post
    According to him in the recent Vanity Fair article, he tried for about a year afterwards to keep going but basically ran out of steam after awhile.
    Yeah I think he gave up and got tired of WB's demands. He didn't want to change his vision much and WB didn't like what the filmed and the tone wasn't hopeful enough, etc.

    WB freaked out after how BvS was received and thought bringing the Avengers director would fix everything... They rushed the movie and we saw the results. And I say this as a fan of the movie, but I know it should have been much better, especially for the first JL live action film.

  6. #2256
    Spectacular Member Serpico Jones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirby101 View Post
    I still don't understand why Snyder was fired from JL in the first place. I know there was the personal tragedy with his daughter. But after MOS and BvS, didn't WB know what kind of movie they were getting? I have heard they didn't like the rough cuts, but that is standard, not the exception in Hollywood. Studios always hate the rough cuts.
    So they end up with a chimera from two very different directors and wonder why it didn't work.
    Collider reported at the time that Snyder was fired after a disastrous test screening for JL.

  7. #2257
    Spectacular Member Serpico Jones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan2099 View Post
    I disagree on this. Once they realized exactly how bad it was, they quickly tried to change course and move away from that. Their mistake wasn't that they didn't let him finish, it was that they didn't let Whedon change enough.
    In hindsight Snyder should’ve been fired after Man of Steel. The mixed reviews and disappointing box office of MoS should’ve been a wake up call.

  8. #2258
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingaliencracker View Post
    So there are conflicting reports about whether he was fired or whether he just walked away prior to post-production. There is probably truth somewhere in the middle in that he submitted a cut to WB that they deemed "incomprehensible" (according to reports), they came back with a bunch of demands that he didn't want to do, and he walked away/they allowed him to walk away in lieu of being fired publicly.

    There were also reports that there were those within WB who wanted him fired immediately following BvS but that the time constraints they were under to get JL finished in addition to Snyder's efficiency in finishing films forced them to decide to at least let him film it and figure out the cut in post-production, which is what they more or less did.
    I would say it is this.

    A studio would do that more to save face versus letting it get out a cut of the film offended folks.

    Star Trek had this happen before with Star Trek Voyager. The original Janeway got sent packing DAY ONE with some excuse. Milgrew had to audition again and the rest was history.

    I think Eli Goree had it happen to him with The 100. He filmed 4 shows and got killed DESPITE the books. Excuse was the bad boy tested better than he did. Wouldn't that happen after showing the FIRST 2 episodes?

    And some show axed somebody at the table reading after everyone was hired.


    In hindsight Snyder should’ve been fired after Man of Steel. The mixed reviews and disappointing box office of MoS should’ve been a wake up call.
    Hindsight should have gotten Snyder a different project that did not have ICONS in them. I suspect if he was given say Jonah Hex or Question or Last boy on Earth-you might have gotten better results.

    Along with WB being too impatient with trying to beat Marvel. I mean if Marvel's trash is beating you-should you fire back with your trash and allow time to work on Batman and others?

  9. #2259
    Astonishing Member Triple J's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingaliencracker View Post
    It's going to be difficult to gauge the success or failure of this film since we're in unchartered territory for a release like this, and it's unlikely we'll ever get an accurate amount to how much WB spent to complete Snyder's cut versus how many new subscribers they need to turn a profit based on that amount spent.

    I said after Batman v Superman that WB should have fired Snyder and rebooted their film universe following that film's disappointing response, both commercially and critically. I felt and continue to feel that Snyder has a dark, morbid view of super heroes that doesn't mesh with my view. That's not to say I'm right or he's wrong - it's just my opinion on it.

    Having said that, WB didn't fire Snyder (at least not immediately) so they should have just allowed him to finish his version of JL, take whatever consequences (good or bad) of that decision, and moved forward after that. And it's the right decision to allow him to finish his film for us to see what that version looks like, especially since Whedon's version turned out pretty awful. But I also don't necessarily believe the "#releasethesnydercut" movement represents a mass consensus of fans. Had Snyder finished his version of JL and that version been released on the same date as Whedon's, there's no question in my mind that it would have been met with the same critical/commercial disappointment of Snyder's prior two DCEU films. There will certainly be additional interest generated for the cut based on the movement for sure, and it would have been interesting to see what the film's box office would have looked like had WB released it theatrically after all this time coupled with the newly generated interest. But again, I think those that loved Snyder's prior two films will praise his JL, while those who didn't won't. It's really that simple.
    For sure. Always nice to see a level-headed take

    (though I am a fan Snyder's interpretation of the characters )
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  10. #2260
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    Quote Originally Posted by stargazer01 View Post
    Yeah I think he gave up and got tired of WB's demands. He didn't want to change his vision much and WB didn't like what the filmed and the tone wasn't hopeful enough, etc.

    WB freaked out after how BvS was received and thought bringing the Avengers director would fix everything... They rushed the movie and we saw the results. And I say this as a fan of the movie, but I know it should have been much better, especially for the first JL live action film.
    A WB exec(name withheld ) is now admitting even WB execs knew that Joss absolutely screwed the film.

    https://www.indiewire.com/2021/02/wa...234618417/amp/

  11. #2261
    Mighty Member Castle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rev9 View Post
    A WB exec(name withheld ) is now admitting even WB execs knew that Joss absolutely screwed the film.

    https://www.indiewire.com/2021/02/wa...234618417/amp/
    But they chose to release it anyway, my guess is they did not want to be sued by their investors.

    I have never seen a franchise that needs a well earned redemption as the Snyderverse

  12. #2262
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    Quote Originally Posted by Castle View Post
    But they chose to release it anyway, my guess is they did not want to be sued by their investors.

    I have never seen a franchise that needs a well earned redemption as the Snyderverse
    I guess so, I mean your director has lost his daughter,the least you could do is push the release date and release the movie he made, because it is just wrong to make someone change their own film after all they've invested on the back of such a tragedy.They brought Whedon in , cut the movie into half(with the runtime) ,had him re-shoot 90% of the footage he decided to keep,saw after all that it was a turd and went ahead 'Yeah smile and wave boys just smile and wave' . I'm lost for words , but yeah maybe this whole mess is why we are actually getting the real thing ,God works in mysterious ways.
    Last edited by Rev9; 02-24-2021 at 10:47 AM.

  13. #2263
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rev9 View Post
    I guess so, I mean your director has lost his daughter,the least you could do is push the release date and release the movie he made, because it is just wrong to make someone change their own film after all they've invested on the back of such a tragedy.They brought Whedon in , cut the movie into half(with the runtime) ,had him re-shoot 90% of the footage he decided to keep,saw after all that it was a turd and went ahead 'Yeah smile and wave boys just smile and wave' . I'm lost for words , but yeah maybe this whole mess is why we are actually getting the real thing ,God works in mysterious ways.
    Even a big organization like Warner Brothers doesn't have millions of dollars to sink into a film as a sympathy gift just because the guy lost his daughter. I know you liked the Snyder films but most of the viewing public did not. As tragic as Snyder's circumstances were they don't obligate Warner Brothers to continue down a bad path.

    I mean, I do agree that it would have been better for Snyder to release his own turd and let it fail on its own merits but I can see why Warner Brothers decided to try and salvage the film.

  14. #2264
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thezmage View Post
    Even a big organization like Warner Brothers doesn't have millions of dollars to sink into a film as a sympathy gift just because the guy lost his daughter. I know you liked the Snyder films but most of the viewing public did not. As tragic as Snyder's circumstances were they don't obligate Warner Brothers to continue down a bad path.

    I mean, I do agree that it would have been better for Snyder to release his own turd and let it fail on its own merits but I can see why Warner Brothers decided to try and salvage the film.

    I don't think pushing the release date would be sinking that much more into it, the funny thing is if they did reshoot as much as they did ,then they absurdly spent more to make the movie worse(by this recent admission)

  15. #2265
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rev9 View Post
    I don't think pushing the release date would be sinking that much more into it, the funny thing is if they did reshoot as much as they did ,then they absurdly spent more to make the movie worse(by this recent admission)
    Regardless, they are still under no obligation to release a film that they do not believe in just because the director is grieving something truly horrible

    EDIT: And even if they had pushed the release date back, it's clear from Snyder's responses that they wouldn't have let him make the movie with no interference.
    Last edited by Thezmage; 02-24-2021 at 12:23 PM.

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